#50081
04/16/2008 06:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
Hahaha!
Yes - some sulfur makes nearly any metall old
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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#50082
04/16/2008 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58 |
Gaspare and Odal, indeed with some ingredients you can make all colors of the rainbow. A problem in general is that if you mention everything you see why a ring is good or bad (Imo), you help the collectors and the fakers. Still....the one who love rings, the collectors! , will take more time and have more love and feeling for it , will see the difference. If not.... the price will help you to watch out.  Here a ring from a private dealer, who mentions that it is a repro.
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#50083
04/16/2008 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
you are right benten - sorry :-(
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
guys another to watch out for.. this one pretty good. This is a fake. A friend in CA. bough it a couple weeks ago. As soon as he bought it the same seller put another on auction. It appears he has a few!  My friend who knows his antique jewelry knew it was fake as soon as it was in his hand. It has the usual problems, incorrect manufacture, poor cast, pitting and faults all over it,etc. Be careful out there guys! And please, any real good fakes feel free to add on here!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
WARNING!
Here is a dam good fake. This seller is very smart and usually only lets one go at a time, holds back then releases again on a different venue.
Photos are bad but good enough to put in your files for ID.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58 |
Gaspare BINGO....You are 100% right...... I've asked this seller often for more info and pics... he never was there and I would get them later... as his emloye� stated. I Never got any info or extra pics.!!! So, I followed his announcements for rings "I got interested". He has an own jewelers workplace ....and sometimes he let us know that he makes new rings,replicas, ...but often NOT. ;Imo certainly not too bad made... so be here warned for the "real ones" as Gaspare already mentioned. How does it feel to sell something that is not OK???...I even do not want to know. For me it is NOT right. Here is theoriginal announcement copied from ebay from the ring picted above... " *Rarit�t ! antiker W�stenkrieg Tunis Ring Palme Unikat".......... so "old and rare".....    ( here I need all colors of the icons...) Benten 
Last edited by benten; 01/01/2011 06:19 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 489
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 489 |
is this a two piece ring ?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
Well, some are, some aren't but have the look.
The 1st gen. copies were 2 piece. Then someone made a copy of it and now there are also 1 piece copies!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
NEW copy for 2011,,for me this is the first time I've seen a copy of this rare ring! It's done pretty good so be extreamly careful!!
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
??
Should this ring be a kind of "Saardank"-ring?
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
Yes, the SAARDANK ring,,awarded in a sliver and gold .. No exact details other than knowing for sure there were official award documents. All my research has turned up is that the rings could have been awared to civilians who donated large amounts of money to the 3rd reich on re claiming the Saar..
This is the first copy I've ever seen of the ring...
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
Yes, my first view of a copy of this pattern too.
It looks for me as it is an eastern european work and i think i know the atelier? where this ring come from.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
Well these are now being test offered on CZ Rep auctions....
Hard to say exactly where the fakes come from.. I remember in the early /mid 1990's,,,there were many very good fakes appearing in Ukraine. But they were being made in Latvia, brought by train into Ukraine and spread to the dishonest dealers and diggers!
Last edited by Gaspare; 05/21/2011 05:14 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58 |
Here another fake.... But placed in a beautiful box.
Benten
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,823 Likes: 58 |
Ring bad, original box very good 
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
interesting is the stamped in looking 800 content!. And 'engraving' done with a toothpick on the wax. . Box IS an oldie, very desirable for a jewelry collector..
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
The box is fancy,,probably for either a wedding ring or engagement ring.. [assuming the box top is not damaged.]. .
I could see a collector that really wanting it paying $50 to $100 for it..
Last edited by Gaspare; 06/09/2011 05:08 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
heres a really good fake..With some aging work or ground dug appearance it might be a hard tell from photos..
Be careful!
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 541
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 541 |
Here's another ebay ring...is this one fake as well? Seems like the price is too low for "ultra rare", and no one's bought it yet. < http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRA-RARE-ELITE-HON...=item3a6909c5d5>
Von zwei �beln w�hlt man besser das, was man schon kennt.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
I'm always suspicious when there is wear like that in the inner band.. Would have been good to see some nice photos..
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
here's another very good fake,,with a twist! They made a copy of a worn/defaced ring.. We have seen this ring before..
1.jpg (59.45 KB, 752 downloads) 2.jpg (60.97 KB, 750 downloads) 3.jpg (86.05 KB, 753 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 10/26/2011 05:46 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
another very good fake of a hard to get pattern..
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
Here an other dagerous fake!
In the moment in thisauction - for selling as a fake.
Be careful in this pattern!
http://www.militaria321.com/auktion/5995356/Ring-Flugzeugf%C3%BChrer-Offiziere-mit-Silberstemplung-%22800%22
And here the pics from theauction:
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 39
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 39 |
Gaspare,these photos are from a recent auction, unfortunately pics of the back and inside were not included. You expressed your doubts about this ring but it has some good qualities compared to the ring that started this thread. Is it an early reproduction?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
dr. ,,,Still too hard to say from the photos,,they do some magnificent work with fake aging and ground dug look..
unless you know the seller and they have a good return policy,
- When in doubt leave it out-
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 201 Likes: 3
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Currently on Ebay are these rings, this seller is making the finest 'super-fakes' to date IMO. This one is a well known pattern, usually brass with silver wash, never stamped?, skull affixed to band seperate with rivet. This one is solid silver with tanning, has had the skull soldered on, and the stamp is poor on the outside of the band.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/STALINGRAD-RELIC...=item3a6f35cc3c
Last edited by svenga; 01/15/2012 06:29 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
want to show a real nearly "super" made fake.
Take care of this one:
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
A SuperFake that's super dangerous!..
Many beginning ring collectors will be fooled by this one.. IF your not sure about any 3rd reich ring / jewelry please always ask here.
We have a great international bunch of jewelry collectors here that are always willing to help so ask!
Odal, thanks for investigating and posting!
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
In the moment there is again a dangerous fake around.
Made from, i think so, a brass-alloy
Be careful!
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
very old pattern band,, newer skull,,in brass,, superfake is right,,,dangerous..
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,879 Likes: 31
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,879 Likes: 31 |
Someone is really trying! Who do you think is doing this and from where? Thanks for sharing this odal.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
Had a report a few years ago from a friend in Russia that the East Europeans are starting to make them in brass.
Mainly for 2 reasons,,one, the rising price of silver, two, info they read here! By now other countries are following their lead..
ALL the forum sites are the best intel for counterfeiters there is!
We all work hard and sometimes don't always post the best of photos and occasionally hold back a small tidbit..
Dagger guys have their subject area down pretty good,, the medal & badge guys I really feel sorry for,,,and SS cloth,,no hope for the beginner collector anymore... But we're all still here and around. Its a good safe interesting hobby, just do some research, take a min. before you jump, and use your common sense..
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Posts: 478
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Gaspare,
Truer words have never been spoken ...
"Dagger guys have their subject area down pretty good,, the medal & badge guys I really feel sorry for,,,and SS cloth,,no hope for the beginner collector anymore... But we're all still here and around. Its a good safe interesting hobby, just do some research, take a min. before you jump, and use your common sense.."
... and they can't be repeated too often!
Best!
Bill
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Last edited by odal; 07/23/2012 07:33 PM.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,181 Likes: 291 |
, when it rains it pours! ha ha..
Here it is in its bad ******** glory:
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 832
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Great info and pics Gentlemen.however,it still makes my stomach hurt.On that note I shall have a beer to calm my nerves!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 478
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 478 |
Found a fake of this known pattern. It is sold as fake. Of course we see pock marks all over the ring. The blackening also is not really the correct type. But - with a little polishing and aging, this ring would be a hard to handle fake. The sides, the leaves, the knobs are correct, the backside looks like on the original rings......
That makes my stomach hurt a lot....
Last edited by Wolf100; 07/26/2013 08:40 PM.
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