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The Pack C31 Oval etch is real purty.
This one is on a short blade, spanner bolted, single etched with a small Pack TM.
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I also have a double etched version of the C31 Oval.
This is pictured in Wayne's book on page 66.
The one pictured and the one I have are the same. It came from Ron Weinand as well.
And, it is on a long blade, is double etched, stag gripped, spanner bolted with the small Pack TM.
The reverse dedication is to a 'Willy Langenberg' and is gold filled.
When you compare the two C31 Ovals, see the difference? The double etched piece does not have the C31 markings that the single etched one does.
Neat stuff.
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The Oval Pioniere etch is seen on page 158 and the version I am showing here was purchased from Wayne.
It is a long, single etched, spanner bolted variety with the large Siegfried TM.
TM.JPG (41.32 KB, 286 downloads)
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The very last, for now, etch that I have to show is a double etched Oval Pioniere.
This is a very interesting etch. On the obverse, it has the Neutral No 11 etch dedication to Inf Regt 3. On the reverse, it has the Oval Pioniere unit by itself.
It is a long blade, double etched, Pioniere hilted, riveted item with the large Siegfried TM.
I picked this little baby up from my favourite Canadian dealer, Paul Hogle.
That's it, boys and girls. Until I get more Packs, I have shown you everything that I have.
I hope that you are enjoying this as much as I have enjoyed showing them to you.
Keep well, my friends,
John
TM.JPG (38.65 KB, 281 downloads)
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I owned this etch for a short while last year.
Originally from Paul Hogle, it is a long blade, single etched, spanner riveted item with the large Siegfried TM.
It also exhibits no markings on the fuselage, like my double etched C31. It is dedicated to Fliegerhorst Stade.
Now Wayne does show a Fliegerhorst Stade etch in his book on page 60, but that one is an Eickhorn etch. In fact, until I got this one, I didn't even know that Pack made this particular etch.
What happened with this one is that when I showed it to some friends (most of them here on GDC), I immediately got offers to move it. It turns out that the offers all came from one source, a big time collector, who absolutely wanted to have this pattern to complete a small grouping that he was working on. As an avid, some may say obsessive, collector, I know what it is like to be very close to completing a grouping and how important that is. And, since Packs are my second most favourite maker (I like Eick), I gave in and exchanged this item for a rare Eick etch, and a whole lot of good karma, I hope.
So, while no longer on the JohnZ wall, it was for a short while and it was pretty neat, you betcha!
John
TM.JPG (40.32 KB, 274 downloads)
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When I decided to give up on trying to find all the Pack Ovals, I knew John had a start and only needed a few of the really rare ones (I had a few), so I elected to sell them to him so that SOMEONE could be close to finally having a complete set. I had tried, since my first work on bayonets, to assemble this set. I found it impossible and hoped that, with my additions, John would be able to accomplish this. It appears that he has the best shot in the hobby. As I told John at the time, that is the only reason I would part with the Weiser and the Langenberg Pack Oval pieces.
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I was pretty surprised Ron sold the Weiser & Langenberg Packs myself but can see his reasoning. It's nice they're in John's collection now along with plenty of good company. I agree with Ray too, this is probably the best Pack (& Eick?) collection in the world. Unless there's some hermit hiding out somewhere?
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Ron and Billy:
Thank you.
Outside of the Oval C31 Stade Pack etch that I owned for about 2 weeks, is there any other Pack Oval pattern that you know of out there?
John
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It has been almost a year since I last posted here.. and that is because it has been a long time since I picked up a Pack etched bayo.
This one came from my friend, Janos, and I picked this up in my very recent trip to Budapest.
It is a double etched long blade with the spanner bolts and the large Pack TM.
What makes this a wow etch for me is the fact that it has TWO Oval etches... the Oval Bugler on one side and the Neutral Eagle over Helmet on the other.
More than likely these etches were either salesman's or retail store sample to show what Pack could do.
John
TM.JPG (39.06 KB, 171 downloads)
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absolutely wonderful Pack collection John. As an item of interest I have a Pack # 6 etch pioneer with Inf. Regt 124 Braunsberg Ost/pr etched on the ricasso. This and yours to Art Regt 57 represent 2 of about 5 or so Pioneer patterns I've seen to non Pioneer outfits from Braunsberg. Apparently many of them preferred the pioneer pattern.
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John,that's absolutely amazing what did you found,congrats
Regards Stingray
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Also of note is that my two etches to MG Batl 9 out of Heiligenbeil, one on a No 6 and one on a No 11, are both Pioniere hilted.
John
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Barry,
I've noticed the same thing regarding unit marked Pioneer hilt bayonets & Braunsberg/Ostprussia. The one example I had (now with John's stellar collection) was such a piece.
John,
As always, it's a pleasure to see the length & width of your Pack collection. It never gets dull for me whatsoever.
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It`s just getting tough to find new Eicks and Packs to add to what I have... I know they are out there, but they keep hiding from me.
John
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Hi John,
Persistence has always paid off for me & undoubtedly it will for you. The real problem you face is when you do get them all, what's next?
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Billy:
You can never get them all.
I have 36 different Pack etches, over a dozen of which are variations not listed in the Pack catalogue. I know of at least two variation etches out there waiting for me to find them, one of which is in the catalogue (the small Panzer).
And, then there are the unit dedications and the stag grip variations and the Pioniere hilted variations. I think that I am scaring myself here that this search will never end.
John
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John,
That's an amazing collection already. Best of luck in finding the rest. Congratulations!
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Thanks to Stingray of this very forum, I had the opportunity to acquire 4 very hard to find and very neat etched bayonets by Pack.
The first one is listed in the Pack catalogue as their No 1 Neutral etch. It is for all branches of service being non specific and only addressing 'My Time In Service'. It also boasts a large wide eagle at the centre of the etch. two things made this a must buy for me: the stag grips, which are not often seen on these etched bayos, and the fact that it is on a short blade. This is the first time that I have seen this etch pattern on such a blade.
There is also a shot of the two No 1 etched bayonets, the short and the long of it.
John
TM.JPG (39.47 KB, 205 downloads)
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The second one shown here is also a short bladed, stag gripped etch. It is the No 2, large Anti Tank gun pattern and is a double etch, with a dedication to Anti Tank Unit 24 on the rear. It has no maker mark, but is definitely by Pack... the etch and the offset spanner bolts holding the grip plates are all Pack traits. I have this very same etch pattern, same double etch to the same unit on a plain gripped short bayo. I have only seen this etch pattern (the double etched version) on short blades.
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Here are shots of the two No 2 etched bayos, side by each.
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The third one pictured is the pattern #11, Neutral, for all branches, but this one allows for the addition of a unit dedication into the obverse etch design... so there is no reverse etch on these. This one is dedicated to a Recon Unit 4. And, it has stag grips. The combination of short blade and stag grips makes this item pretty unique just by itself, but the the scarce dedication to a recon unit made it a must buy. The blade has no maker mark, but is obviously by Pack, as you can see.
John
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Over the years, I have owned 3 other copies of the Pack Oval Bugler etch. The Oval etches by Pack are the most beautiful and the most difficult to find etches by this firm (I exclude the ever elusive No 9 small Panzer, of course). All three have been on long blades and two had the added enhancement of bluing. Right now, the one in my collection is a long bladed, blued and stag gripped copy of this great etch. When Stingray offered me this version, I balked until I realized that it was a stag grip, but on a short blade. I have all of the Oval patterns made by Pack, but this is the very first short bladed one.
As I said earlier, the hunt never ends.
John
TM.JPG (40.1 KB, 253 downloads)
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I recently received an e-mail from Ivan (Stingray) asking me if I have this pattern NO 11 Neutral on a Pioniere hilted bayonet. My quick response was that I already had a No 11 with a Pi hilt (dedicated to Machine Gun Battalion 9 to boot) so I wasn`t looking for another to a simple Infantry regiment.
He told me to look again since the etch differed from the typical Pack No 11 etch you see in Wayne`s book on pages 149-150. So, I looked again, and sure enough, it is a different etch pattern. More on that later, but here it is.
Not in great shape at all, but the etch and the Pioniere hilt make it a worthwhile addition to the JohnZ wall.
TM.JPG (40.87 KB, 207 downloads)
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There is an etch pattern shown on page 135 of Wayne`s book that is on a Horster marked bayonet and looks a lot like the Pack No 11 Neutral etch. But, there are several differences. I have this etch pattern on an unmarked blade and dedicated to Gebirg Jager Regt 99.
The etch that I just received and that I show above is another version of this Horster pattern etch, but it is on a Pack marked blade.
This makes me think that Pack was the maker for both the Horster and the unmarked etches. It also makes me believe that Horster bought their etches from both Holler and from Pack, as you can see on Page 125.
Here are pictures of the three etches, from top to bottom, they are:
-unmarked blade, Horster etch as seen on page 135, Geb Jager 99 - Pack marked blade, Horster etch variation, IR 3 - Pack marked blade, No 11 etch MG Batt. 9
Note that the Pack No 11 etch is a short etch even though it is on the same long blade as the other two.
As Rowan and Martin`s Laugh In says, `Very Interesting`.
John
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A little late to the show here but what a magnificent,superlative collection of E Packs you have John...thank you for sharing these beauties!
In my humble opinion the best Etch producer of them all and my personal favourite being the number 12 Mountaineering example...how rare is that!
Just great to see.
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Thanks, Darren.
I like the No 12 Mountain Troop etch as well, although I also like their various Ovals.
But, frankly, my first love is Eickhorn.
John
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Here is a unique Pack double etch that has some great features and a couple of questions.
First of all, there is a gold inlaid dedication to service in the war years of 1939/40. Second, the other etch shows a fighting motif of cavalry against infantry and a machine gun.
Both etches are really neat and show great detail.
The questions are:
Why is the large Siegfried (the correct mark for this era, by the way) on the obverse rather than the reverse? Shouldn't the etches be reversed with the fight motif on the obverse and the dedication on the reverse? Why the unique bookend and the unique motif, both of which are brand new to Pack?
Enjoy,
John
TM.JPG (36.79 KB, 126 downloads)
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I suspect the obverse logo is the result of Pack not wanting to overlap with the reverse etch, which seems to take up a lot of blade space. I've seen this on special order presentation daggers so I suspect the same could be true on a special order bayonet.
I too have the same question about why they would have a cavalry charge against a machine gun emplacement. Initially I thought it might be some sort of battle recreation with the Polish since I remember reading about Polish charges like that, except the horsemen clearly are wearing German stahlhelms. The detail is excellent & you can even see the decals on the helmets so they're definitely German soldiers on both sides. Really cool piece.
Beautiful & rare bayonet John, congrats brother.
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Wow Johny,i think you found something rare. It could be one of kind. I have similar etch on my Pack sword
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pic.
v.jpg (20.64 KB, 108 downloads) vv.jpg (34.89 KB, 110 downloads)
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Thanks for showing, Ivan. This confirms that Pack did do a cavalry etch.
J
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Superb Pack collection John. I've owned a few but only retain 1 now. A pioneer infantry etch with ricasso marked to Inf Regt 24, braunsberg ostp. Yours are the best. Barry
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Indeed a one of a kind piece here. I held it at the MAX SHOW. Just a one looker!! Correct in EVERY way. Billy G. is correct about the makers mark placement. This example has got to make your TOP 5 of rarest etched bayonets in your collection. Congrats on this John!!
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I missed this year's SOS for the first time in years, but did manage to score a few items that were for sale by DD Harris.
This one is a short bladed single etch, like every #11 pattern that I have seen. It has no maker mark and is dedicated to service in the Anti Tank Unit 13. I have another such anti tank dedication to unit 24 and both are on unmarked blades.
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Pack had several etch patterns that were not in their catalogue.
This neutral pattern, without dedication, is not very hard to find.
I have this pattern on both short and long blades, both etches on the obverse. What makes this different is that the etch is on the reverse maker marked side, but still on a long blade.
I did buy more of DD's famous Pack collection, but have not yet received them nor taken their pictures, so stay tuned.
John
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There are many faked fire etches out there in collecting land. I am lucky to have acquired my second one and believe that it is a legitimate and period etch.
This is on a long blade, albeit it has been retipped (very well done). It is dedicated to 25 years of service, just like my other one on a short blade.
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The #4 etch featuring the C31 airplane is not a very hard etch to find (beware though, there are very good reproductions of this etch out there).
I have this etch on a long single etched blade with stag grips and on a short single etched dedicated to Fliegerhorst Stade. So, why another one? Because, this is a double etch with a dedication to August Niemann and it also has stag grips.
TM.JPG (39.33 KB, 99 downloads)
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Admittedly the hardest of the numbered etches in the Pack catalogue to find is this small Panzer etch. This is the first one that I have ever seen and was originally found by DD on fleabay, of all places.
I am very pleased to be able to acquire this from DD and add it to my etched Pack collection. This now completes my numbered Pack etches, even though there are still many variations of these out there as you will see later.
Here also are my other Pack Panzer etches.
J
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The Pack communications crew etch is not listed in their catalogue. It turns out that about half of their etch produced patterns are not as well.
What makes this very collectible in my opinion is that it is on a short blade. I have seen several examples of the long blade etch for sale over the years (and there is one right now on Wayne Techet's site), but this is the first one on a short blade.
I don't usually collect short and long blade versions unless the etches are different, but I could not resist this one.
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The Pack #11 etch was intended for all service branches and consists of a template where there is space for the unit dedication. Typically, the etch only appears on one side of the blade and can rarely be found with a Pioniere style hilt.
This is my first artillery dedicated #11 etch (I do have a #7 etch to art regt 57) and it is Pi hilted as well another feature that made this interesting to me.
What is interesting is the variation in etch pattern on the #11, here are two long and one short version to compare.
J
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