UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum The Anatomy of a Fake NSKK Dagger

I was able to borrow a fake NSKK dagger recently and I have dissected it to show you the state-of-the-art of faking as it now exists.

I am sure that a few people will say that this sort of thread helps the crooks improve there wares. True, but helps the collector, or at least those who keep up with things, to avoid the fakes.

As usual, the best defense is to know what you collect in great detail. As will be seen, the crooks are not even close !!

Be patient - there are about 40 pictures

Here is the dagger. Looks like a cherry piece or a stone cold mint piece. Just like it came out of the factory yesterday.

Another view.

It is not even stone warm mint and it looks good because it DID come out of the factory yesterday.

The grip looks good .... from a distance, but close up you can already see some problems

Front & back

Here are a couple of close-ups of the eagle or vulture.

The detail is not correct at all. Very poor definition and bad head. You can see where putty was used at the end of one wing and under the wings.

It is probably glued in place as I can see no pins when looking down the grip hole.

Two shots of the rune button compared to a real one. Real is on the right.

Here are the top holes. Real on Right

Bottom.

It looks like dried putty that had been sculpted but I did not try to dig in it. Close try but not what it should look like

Here it is compared to real ones. Real on right

The lower guards are terrible. Badly cast and too shiny and bright. The finish appears brushed on ... as is the case for all the "plated" parts

The guard weighs 26 grams vs an average of 44 grams for RZM daggers

Real RZM (1939 Eick Transitional) is above or on the right. Note the lack of definition to the fake. Real RZM daggers may be of lesser materials than the early ones but they were still relatively well made

1 ounce = 28.3 grams

Not the poor detail, casting flaws, bright finish

Loss of finish. As I noted it looks like a cold paint on "plating"

Same with the underside

They also cast the opening too large and made the tang too small. The result is that the Lower guard wobbles quite a bit when put on the blade. Real on right in upper photo

The upper guard is equally poor, but the crooks molded in "St" like some of the real early guards.

The thing is very light. 9 grams vs 30 grams for the real thing

Tang nut is poor too. Weighs only 1.5 grams vs 6-7 grams for early and RZM tang nuts.

Note lack of definition and bright color

Now the blade. About 2mm narrower than most real ones and lighter too. 132 grams vs an average of 150 grams.

Remember this is supposed to be a new dagger. Real RZM on the right

Note the dull, bluish look to the blade. Crossgrain of the fake looks like Brillo pad scratches

More. Note poor transition from blade to tang compared to the real one

More Brillo pad crossgrain

Poorly ground point and the blade was factory pitted

Trademark

To quote our revered Mod, Mike McAlvanah, it is the "chimp with the chisel" type

The blade, by the way, is noticeably narrower that the real thing.

Put together the knife weighs only 200 vs an expected 250 grams

On to the "scabbord" as they say on eBay

Beautiful, perfect, low gloss finish. Should be as it is brand new. Note that it comes "pre-dented" from the factory or maybe it was an "Oooops". See close-up below

Lower fitting not too bad until you compare it with the real thing (above in second pi and to the right in the third). The "peanut" is shaped different.

Not easy to spot, but the scabbard is about 2mm narrower at the bottom than the real one

The upper fitting looks normal other than the finish. I think I can see the brush strokes where the finish was painted on.

The throatpiece is most definitely a stinker. here are three views.

Not the smaller opening and its strange shape. That is because, as noted above, the blade is thinner.

The carrying ring looks OK but the little ring has a bigger hole than I have seen before

Interestingly enough, I compared the scabbard to 12 other SA/SS/NSKK. They all vary a bit but the stinker is at least visibly longer than any I had to hand.

That is interesting because, like the knife, the scabbard is about 50 grams light compared to real RZM era scabs.

That means a total of 100 grams light for the dagger. That is about 4 ounces and should be discernible if you have the real thing for comparison

That is the state of the fakes today.

So, you can't take a scale and digital caliper to the shows (although you should own one !) and take apart new looking daggers, so what are the "tells" you can see at a show ??

New looking dagger with the following compared to any other RZM dagger :

- Very bright reflective finish overall
- Impeccable looking grip
- Funky eagle
- Putty fill around eagle
- Flawed crossguards with bubbles and loss of finish
- Perfect low gloss paint with no spidering
- Lighter by 15%

And this applies to SS daggers too. Probably more so since they cost more

Thanks for looking at this.

Best regards,
Dave

A very dangerous dagger for beginners, the scabbard is very near convincing.

A question, seems to me this scabbard was pistol painted, it's usual to a periode done too or they all are painted by paint immersion?

Many thanks for the guide, scary how close to the original this looks. It�s guides like yours which really help beginners like me to gain the knowledge (and confidence) to carry on with collecting.

Best regards

Merlin

I don't know how the originals were painted but dipping seems as if it would be easier and more uniform. Most, but not all, RZM daggers I have seen had paint with a higher gloss. Often with some spidering to the finish.

Another way to spot the fake is the scabbard throat, especially if you have a real one for comparison.

Dave

Hi Dave, here is another well known fake SA,
Regards Stan

Hi Stan,

Very bad blade, leather wash and scabbard throat is not convincing too.

This fake Eickhorn I had in hands some times ago:

Strange grip shape and poor crosguards lines definition, motto to far from crossguards.



Scabbard may be original but fittings seems artificially aged.



Very poor motto etche, blade spine too sharp and the steel without the expected bright







Poor RZM etch and without the production year

At the MAX I saw an SS dagger with the same poor lettering and that trademark. Fake all the way was my guess but I did not get a chance to take pictures.

Dave

Dave, Thanks for the information once again you show its all in the details. Regards,forton

Great study, thank you, Dave!

Herman

GREAT info here,THANKS guys!! Kevin.