UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Pack Luft2 Small Siegfried Solid Belt TM

At Tom's request, I am posting the 'solid belt' TM pack Luft2 whose TM I showed in another thread.

I also show the two Small Siegfried TMs side by side for comparison.

John

John thank you I expected to see pack fittings-out of the four early maker marked Pack army daggers I have one has the variation you brought to our attention (wide belt)
Mine has the wide belt but if you compare mine & yours they are even different in many ways

Tom:

I too was hoping for Pack fittings... but it is the blade and the markings that I am really interested in.

I can see immediate differnces in the belt and the apron and the feet of yours vs the one that I show.

I don't really know at what point are the differences big enough to make it a unique and collectible variation and what are 'flyspeck' differences caused by the wear and tear of the stamping or etching or just aging?

John

John I know what you mean when you collect such extremely hard to find examples you often have to take what you get.

John,
the two Pack trademarks you showed are definitely different.
IMO the "solid belt" version is the earlier (possibly the earliest).
Tom is the expert on Pack daggers, I would like to know his opinion!
I have two army daggers with the "Solid belt" TM.
See photos. Please notice the differences!

Best regards,
Janos

Janos I never really studied these trademarks in depth but I would think they had to have many templates at their disposal. I think the mark that is placed farthest down the blade would be the earliest (army daggers). I have no smoking gun why just always thought that. Janos boy you have some fabulous stuff sir!!

After looking at my early pack army daggers it appears that I have examples with three different positions this being thefarthest

So, it goes back to my previous question.. as you can see, there are small but certainly noticeable differences in the apron, the feet and the belt on these versions of the TM.

At what point does the variation become collectible and at what point does it remain in the realm of 'flyspeck' difference?

For me, the solid belt vs the frayed belt variation is collectible.

And, by the way, I am glad that I do not collect armies, or the two of you would drive me insane with jealousy! Great examples of great daggers Tom and Janos.

John

John,
I agree with you: IMO the "frayed belt" and the "solid belt" are two different TM variations.
And I agree with Tom also about the slightly differences between the solid belt TMs: these are only template variations of the same trademark.

Of course it is just my point of view...

Tom,
You wrote:
"I think the mark that is placed farthest down the blade would be the earliest (army daggers)"

It is a logical theory. I have the same experiences.
And if it is true, than the "frayed belt" TM is the earlier.

Best regards,
Janos

Posting these for Ron who wanted to show his early Pack mark and crossguard. This is the dagger pictured in Wittmanns army book!