UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum PUMA ENGRAVED DRESS OPINIONS PLEASE

Hi folks would just like your opinion on my Puma , not the best plating and is the knot original? what would be the translation please.


[img]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/LEECO/HEER%20DA[IMG]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/LEECO/HEER%20DAGGER/2010_0725SCHLIEMERHEER0005.jpg[/img]
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Lee,
I'm no expert on the etched bayos, but the eagle bookend looks very sloppy to me. It does not look consistent with the wear on the upper blade. When it comes to Panzer and SS pieces, the first thing I want to do is prove it wrong. If I can't then I know I'm on the right path to a maybe authentic. These types of pieces are worth big money, giving less scrupulous collectors a perverse incentive for $$$$.

As far as knots, I'm no expert on those either. Yours may have been for a sword. It looks a bit longer? Doesn't look like the one I'll post. I'm not saying mine's right either.

Regards,
Steve

Hey,

I agree with Steven. The edges are sloppy and I fail to see the details I look for in etches. Further, I seem to see inconsistencies in the text. I believe this to be a legit pieces with all the trimmings BUT with an etch applied recently.

JAN

Jan,
This one has a 50-50 look to me as to authenticity. I can't form an opinion because it's outside my area of expertise. The piece has some merit nevertheless. This is more Wayne's area of expertise and some of the bigger boys that do the etches.

Kind regards,
Steve

Hi Steve,

I had a look at Wayne's website and you can clearly see many red flags on this piece as opposed to the one he's selling. The main differences are in the details and sharpness of the original compared to the one in this thread. Below is a real piece Wayne is selling:

http://www.vonryansexpress.com/p-edged-weapons-244a.html

Below is Wayne's photo from the link above:



Here's the bad one being discussed for comparison:



JAN

The dealer i bought it from would take the bayonet back as he is sure its right, it would be nice to know 1 way or the other, how much would you expect to pay if it were original? i will take some close ups when i get back off holiday, many thanks for your help.

Lee:

At first blush, this etch looks a lot like the one pictured in Wayne's book on page 216. It is the same pattern and to the same military unit, Panzer Regiment 4. Since these are in high demand, it would be nice if it were without flaw.

However, I agree with the opinions expressed here by Steven and Jan etc. The bookends look pretty good to me, but the borders do not. Take a look at the picture that shows the front eagle bookend and the border at the top edge... it seems to fluctuate in width, doesn't it? Same with the bottom border. This border width fluctuation is not something that I like, nor is it something that I would gladly add to my collection.

I would estimate that the chances of it being real and period are less than 50:50.

If Wayne would chime in, maybe we could all learn something..

John

Some extra pics, it would be great to know if this is right or not

Lee,

After seeing your most recent pics, I'd have to agree with the consensus that the etch was applied postwar. There are always small things we pick up on as collectors that, at times, escaped the scrutiny of the Solingen quality control people. This piece, however, has too many to fall into that group. Note how the top line of letters bleed into the border & the lower border fades off from left to right. I believe an occasional spot in an etch could be explained away but this one seems to have too much going against it.

If this were a H�ller etch, I think the standard would be different, allowing some more missed spots since H�ller's etches can be considered "sloppy" when compared to those by, say Pack or Eickhorn. Note the differences between your item & the one posted from Wayne T.'s site. The detail on that Puma is exquisite, very well done with no noticeable flaws. Also, don't forget that the etch is to a panzer unit which is most desirable. The bayonet itself looks correct which muddys the waters but the etch on it's own is very questionable. Sorry man.

Lee:

I have a couple of Pumas myself.

I am attaching pictures of the front bookends where the line bending and the spacing is most pronounced on yours for comparison.

I also attach one pic of the rear bookend.

Can you see what we are talking about?

John

Hi,

without giving too much away, the swastika alone is very poor in the one I believe to be applied post-war. Definitely not a piece I would be comfortable with.

JAN

True on the swastika Jan and also the head and feet of the eagle show significant differences, as well as the helmet and helmet eagle on the other end. Now I'm gonna have to dig out my Puma and take a closer look.

Lance

Well i can see where your all coming from, unless you have really looked at a real example its so hard to detect a dodgey 1, looks like i wil have to get my money back or something in exchange, trouble is i wont see the dealer till November.Thanks for the pics anyway