UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum 1st Luft

Most times, but,Not alway's,Presentation luftwaffe daggers wiil not have sprigs of laurel leaves,under the wing's.All of Wittmanns appear to be presentations.This one does not appear to be one.The 2nd model officers luft dagger was authorized for wear in 1937.Paul

Ed Sunday: I hate to tell you this, but the dagger is good and the blade is a post war embellishment.
This particular TM and company was faked in the late 1960s and early 1970s and was a well known reproduction. As usual, time tends to make people forget and the mistakes of collectors dissappear into the woodwork only to be discovered again years later.
Remember all the Water Protection Police daggers that Atwood brought into the country in the late 1950s and early 1960s? They dissappeared and you see very few of them today.
For some reason, engraved blades that were reproduced tended to use manufacturers whose name contained the letter P:
P. D. Luneschloss
E. Pack
Plumacher

FINALLY, the calm voice of experience.

I've seen quite a few of all 3 makers Ron has listed and they are obviously bad when you sit down and examine them. Another bad "P" among etched goods is Paul Weyersberg. DON'T touch an etched blade by PW. I've seen a few Eickhorn AND several Clemen & Jung that would/could fool many. Both w/o the "P" and I suspect the "P" is a coincidence?

IF it's too good to be true, it normally is. My Dad had an old saying that he passed to me. "Trust no living soul, walk softly amongst the dead, and if you hear sticks breaking, run!"

Hopefully life isn't always that way, but this hobby of ours seems to be more like that, every day. It's enough to make you want to just sit down and sh..

Bottomline is still that everyone is free to buy what makes 'em happy, but don't get unhappy when sale time rolls around.

I bought an etched SA a long time ago (against my better judgment and in pursuit of the "G" word, Greed I suspect) only to decide after much research, handling, and fondling that the piece wasn't suitable for a paper weight. Nice fittings that were also embellished, grip, scabbard, ALL except that etched (w/inscription) blade. IT was non-returnable, unlike this case. I paid over 2 Gs for that lesson, but I couldn't sell the thing and maintain a clear conscience so I.....

Gave it away to a friend to serve as a lesson to him of what NOT to buy.



Dave

I desperately need a Wound Badge. That may be the only consolation some of us get when they buy such items?



Give me an early Army or Plain Jane Army, anytime, Thank you.

D.J.: Don't throw the baby out with the dirty bath water!! I have found SEVERAL etched blade SAs, 2nd Lufts and Army Daggers directly from veterans with engraved and etched blades THAT ARE PERIOD. Wittmann says that I have found more presentations than any of the other motel buyers and have managed to keep almost all of them. (I traded a couple of my SS presentations on my NPEA etched blade Eickhorn presentation that is in my book as I had no other choice to get that piece and had to have it.)
While I enjoy getting these directly from veterans, it is a rare happening and I was able to buy them as standard daggers.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Ron
You're right about the bath water theory. Guess I should qualify my statement by saying that I know some exist, but they are the exception rather than the rule and as good a job as the fake artists are doing and have done in some instances, the less experienced (and even some of the more experienced such as myself) just need to back off.

So we miss a good one every RARE once in a while? AT LEAST we don't get the shaft and are still able to get the Plain Janes (that are just as exciting to find and own).

Staying with the P word,Johnson has a presentation Land Customs, Paul Weyersberg, on page 279 Vol.2 Paul

I remember when this dagger hit the collecting world. It was found in Florida by a long time collector in the 1960s and has been a known original for many years and the only Custom's etched piece that I know of as original.
It has passed through several hands since then and has always been accepted.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Ron!So you think the custom's in Johnsons' is ok.That's good enough for me.Paul

Hi

Dagger came back from Tom W and yes its
bad!

Original blade blank used!

As stated Ed never had any fears on this and
knew this could happen!

But he wanted to be sure since no risk to him!

I will let him continue!


PVON

Sent the dagger out to Tom W. for inspection and just got it back. The blade and knife are good, etching and trademark post war. He still had to see it in person, based on what I told him earlier and the photos that we sent. Also, learned that it wasn't so much the style of the eagle and lack of details, but rather the maker and style of etching. Glad it was bought from a highly reliable source, so no worries there. Sad thing about this (and scary thing) is that this came out of a major collection, and others like it will begin to surface. Thanks for everyones input on this. Ed Sunday

Ed
Sorry it was bad. Glad you found out and are able to recoup your money.......

The "scary" part is my concern as well.....AND should be to others and especially new collectors. When one person can be fooled, there are bound to be Many others following in their footsteps......

We see clearly what this Forum and others is able to accomplish, in a broad scope, due to the internet.........

I wouldn't call it 'scary', after all, this is an attractive looking blade and I, for one, wouldn't care if it is postwar. There are people, like myself, who would pay extra for a an ornamental etch like that. Just remember those fancy blades sold by Reddick. They all were installed on daggers, and they were all sold out. I realize that there are some pretty funky postwar etches out there but there are also some high quality etches that are just as pleasing to the eye as any original. Ultimately it is a matter of what you like and what you are willing to pay for it. For those who are only interested in the investment value and intent on making a killing, originality is paramount. Thus, any kind of esthetic quality is probably wasted on them anyway.

To keep this from disappearing