UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum SS Honor dagger

You don't see too many of these for sale:

http://www.sterlinggambino.com/Militaria_Detail.cfm?ID=1302

Plus you know it's no worries with Chip. Now... I wonder if the wife would miss the $40k?

Very sweet, and really a bargain price, all things considered. When I started collecting over 25 years ago, I held Himmlers honor SS dagger. I could have bought it for 65K, but I was making about 6 bucks an hour at the time....

Who has Himmler's honor dagger now?

my eyes just ejaculated... i want one!!

I will just look at my plain blade SS EM and be just fine.

I have seen full damascus SS Honor daggers sell for close to that number very recently.

Mark

If your going to spend that much, might as well get one with Damascus blade.

I agree Mark and Rick.

$40,000 for crossguards?!

-wagner-

@ wagner: and a different scabbard .
Regards,

Mark

I am intrigued by your comments on damascus bladed ss honors going as cheap as usd 40,000, please enlighten us further

Thanks
Jonathan

Oh..Right wotan. But OK, Johnson's got a personalized one for 10K...
Now, honor crossguards and a 8 to 10K honor (standard) scabbard. Plus standard SS dagger = ???
-wagner-

Wagner... this is not some cobbled together parts dagger here! This is a rare piece. How many are known to exist? I don't think it is appropriate to put a price on this artifact by breaking it down by it's parts.

Hello Johnathan,

there was one (early damascus blade dagger) that Tom Johnson had at the SOS last that sold within about 5K of that number. It was minty and I wanted to buy it but the taxman got me big time and I had to excuse myself from the deal. It sold around Christmas time. I had it on hold.

Do you know the one I am referring to? Also, what one asks for a dagger is almost never the selling price.

Hope that helps..

Mark

hi mark

i think you mean the chained sa high leaders ? i'd happily pay upto usd 60,000 for another damascus ss honor if the condition was there. the cheapest ss honor i've heard about is the one exchanged for usd 65,000 of ss cloth, it wasn't in a-grade condition but still a good piece and a superb bargain.

jonathan

Expensive? the market will tell us that lets see how many hours it lasts!

It is like a Pontiac LeMans,alot of the same parts but still not a GTO.

The challenge on any non-traditional dagger, is sorting through the uniqueness that makes it different, possibly attributed or personalized, and most likely expensive; and being able to qualify these special characteristics as being performed during the 3rd Reich Period. In this case you have a Factory Ground Eickhorn SS blade, that is matched to parts that we know were used for the rare SS Honor Dagger. The blade would have to had been made between Feb 1934 and June of the same year. Then the blade would have to have been ground sometime after the Rohm Purge, per as the orders of July 4, 1934. The questions being; 1) Would Eickhorn sell a dagger as new like this with these more expensive fittings, scabbard, etc, and a blade that was a ground left over in their firm ? 2) Did the original owner of an Eickhorn Rohm Dagger, return this piece to the factory to have the blade ground and also at the same time have it embellished with the new SS Honor scabbard and crossguard fittings prior to have it returned to him ? 3) Was it an option to have SS Honor fittings matched up to your 33 Standard or Rohm SS dagger ? 4) How does one show a time frame when the parts were match together ? None the less, a beautiful piece! JR

I bow to JR's logic.
Still, a wonderful piece that would be the highlight of any advanced collection.

But, WOW, how often do you see one of these go up on the boards?

John

One like this was offered publicly by TJ 5 years back. A traditional SS Honor dagger is traded privately most every year. I can name at least 10 in the last few years.

The challenge is if one wants too pay $40,000,00 on a "Yeah but" dagger.

The dagger is a bargain with these components to the piece, and 40-60K below the price of one with the traditional Damascus blade. Plus it comes with a track record of owners and sales. All of these SS Honors are kept track of when ever they change hands in collections. I've never owned either type, but would certainly welcome one to my collection.

JR, can you tell us what evidence leads you to believe that the blade is a ground Rohm? I have my own theory, however, I'd like to see if it "jives" with yours! Regards, Leipzig

There is absolutely no doubt by looking at the motto, the trademark, the crossgrain to name a few.

JR, the "give-a-way" to me was the pic of the blade reverse which showed the "wavy" spine! Do you concur, my friend? Regards, Leipzig

Absolutely...........

Jonathan, you were correct..it was a chained SA high leader and not an SS.

Thanks for excusing my 'mind stumble'.

Mark

With all the experts who have had it in their hands,one would think it would be presented as a ground Rohm,To me the dagger makes no sense.I understand that they were gifts from Himmler.When he presented it he said "You are special, but not that special"

What makes a Honor Dagger a Honor Dagger ?
I am not trying to be a "wise guy" here boys.

To me, if you there is not a Honor Blade on
a dagger, I don't consider it a "Honor Dagger".

In Wittmann's book he gives us a guide line to which to go by. So, if the blade has the "Oak Sprugs" framing the motto, that is considered an "Honor Blade".
I see no evidence of that in this dagger blade. Damascus or not.
And I am not suggesting that "Sterling" has got a "parts dagger" or anything like that. Anyone who had dealings with him knows he's one of the best.
What I am suggesting it just a question. And please just show us the evidence of what makes this dagger a "Honor Dagger".
And just because someone might buy this dagger
today for 40K doesn't mean that it's a Honor Dagger. If in MY opinion it was a "Honor Dagger" I would have made a call to Sterling and it would be now "On Hold". But that is just me. Maybe I'm all wrong...Maybe the actual blades are NOT as important as I always thought.
But until then...I see a very interesting SS dagger with Honor crossguards and a Honor scabbard with a ground Rohm standard blade...
-wagner-

The Rohm dagger was also an Honor dagger.It could have meant more to the owner than an annonymous Damascus blade.It is impossible to tell if a dagger is correct on line.It is hard enough when they are in ones hands.

I'd like to add a small contribution on terminology as the term "Honor Dagger" has had different meanings at different times.

- The SS/SA/NSKK daggers issued with the Rohm dedication on the reverse were called at the time Honor Daggers - - Ehren Dolch. The SS recipients were issue with a certificate (Urkunde) saying just that.

- The copycat SS daggers with the Himmler inscription were called the same, I think - I am not 100% certain of this, so corrections are welcome.

- High quality daggers with special crossguards, leather covered scabbards and damascus steel blades were produced with and without chains for the SS, and SA. I have seen NSKK chained versions but I am not sure I have seen an M1933 version. What their official name was at the time I do not know.

TODAY, the collecting community tends to call the ones with the fancy crossguards, special scabbards and a Damascus steel blade an Honor Dagger if it is SS or a High Leader dagger if it SA or NSKK. The mass produced Rohm and Himmler inscriptions dagger are called just that.

Dave

You guys kill me! I recently did the price guide for Thomas Johnson�s up and coming volume and I placed the value of an SS Honor Dagger with plain blade at $50,000 to $65,000. A Damascus blade example in the conditions of chips piece would easily go for $100,000. I know since I have sold them for that price. If you can find me some SS Honor Daggers with Damascus blades for $50,000 in this condition please send them all to me (up to 100 will be excepted) and receive a finders fee! Not many know that the Damascus blade was extra on the SA/SS Honor Dagger. If you didn't order the Damascus blade you got the plain blade. This can be verified by by viewing the original Eickhorn sales brochure which show the SA High Leader with plain blade on the front cover. The one Chip has is from the Barry Brown Collection. Barry used it as partial trade against the Sepp Dietrich Presentation Sword many years ago. This SS Honor Dagger is well known and many years ago was displayed at the Max Show, and not by Chip. I personally think he sold the dagger to cheap and told him so. By the way, The dagger has already been sold! Somebody got a good buy!!!!

Gailen David

If it was such a bargain you should of bought it.

Zorro: All I am saying is it was a good buy for a collector. Especially one who has the time to hold the dagger a few years. They are rarely offered for sale.

Gailen David

I agree with Gailen. A full Rohm SS in mint condition goes for 20K, and it's JUST an extra etch on the back of the blade. This is a beautiful, rare, desirable dagger. Unfortunately, not in my current budget! John

Here is a "no maker, plain blade" example.

Scabbard for same

OK Gailen, everyone here knows your "The Master" on this...So what was then "chips" dagger really worth? And did we help sell it here to a forum member?
-wagner-

Less than 8hrs.
The market has spoken.

Just to add a little wrench to the mix here. There does exist a DAMASCUS Honor with traces of the Roehm inscription removed from the back of the blade, so plain or damascus DID exist as an Honor Dagger form prior to Roehm's death in the dagger world.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria