|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
I have and have had for over 31 years, what Manion's auction referred to as a "Wedding Cup". I would like to be able to provide pictures of this piece here to ascertain if anyone can shed more light on the piece, ie: have they seen one, any idea as to value, anyone have an interest in the piece? Here is a description:
ALLACH WEDDING CUP The piece is not in Oliver's book nor have I seen it anywhere else either. it's an "SS Wedding Cup" per Manion's catalog of May 20, 1976. It is 3 7/8" tall, 3 1/4" in diameter at the rim and 1 7/8" at the base. It is white porcelain in mint condition and has the intertwined SS and Allach on the recessed base inside an octagon. Approx 7/8" from the base and on two lines of raised letters is the following: *SOWISEURERINGEOHNEANFANGUNDOHNEENDE* *SOSEIEURESIPPEHNEANFANGUNDOHNEENDE* (I hope I got all the letters.) This Manion's says translates to "Just as these rings have no beginning and no ending, So may your lineage have no beginning and no end."
If anyone can receive the pics which I have that my daughter took a few days ago and can post here or just want to see the pics themselves, pls email me.
Many Thanks, Lloyd
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
Lloyd - You can send me the pics and I'll post them for you - Gordon [email protected]
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
quote: Originally posted by Floridaguyz1: Lloyd - You can send me the pics and I'll post them for you - Gordon [email protected]
Pics sent. Thank You Sir! Regards, Lloyd
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
Here are Lloyd's pics .... a couple were duplicates so I didn't post .... I know nothing about Allach so I will leave comments to the experts -
Gordon
Pic 1 of 8
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,627 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,414
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,414 |
VERY NICE!
In Memory of Joe Mann Medal of Honor Recipient July 8, 1922 � September 19, 1944
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
quote: Originally posted by Floridaguyz1: Last pic
My sincerest Thanks to Gordon for posting these pics for me! (THANKS GORDON!) Note: Though the glaze "looks" to be crackle, it is in fact perfectly white. No damage whatsoever, that's why the rim pic, NO hidden damage whatsoever! Further info is that I have shown these pics to a well recognized Allach authority and he states he has not seen this example before and this gentleman has LOTS of Allach! However, just because one person hasn't seen an item doesn't say thay you haven't. I haven't decided to keep or to sell. I might decide here on this site! Thanks for looking folks! (I will send any member pics on email request)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Interesting.Never seen/heard of such piece. An "Authority" said "If you can eat from it,drink from it,pour from it"dont touch it!!! Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162 |
i see no problem from this at all, seiler, you need to research more and ignore words of urban myth, allach were very prevelent in presentation peices, these were made for display. do you disbelive the AH plates, cup and saucer sets???? who told you such nonsense?
PHIL BROWN
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
I,ll just wait for the opinion of those more knowledgable than you Phil.Sorry dont mean to be rude. Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
I have just received the opinion of TWO acknowledged Expert collectors in the field of Allach.Both are convinced of the authenticity. Good enough for me. Phil re the "AH" ware you are encouraged to go to MCF Allach Forum read the real "skinny" on this stuff.Hope you didn,t buy any....Sorry to tell you there are few references on the market regarding Allach.If you know of others please share.Yes I DO have several pieces. PS,I know an English Gent who has a 9 (Nine) person table setting of "AH" dinnerware. Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
It looks good to me but I have never seen or heard of one of these before. Kris Lindblom would most likely know. It looks like something that Allach would have made for a special occasion though. The Allach mark and octagon looks like it's the real thing. If it's for sale, let me know. Better pics would be a BIG help. Mark
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162 |
hi seiler, im not offended, im very thick skinned, i HAVE got one peice of AH allach, bought indirectly from robin lumsden, thats good enough for me, however, if youve a link to this forum, im always happy to learn more.but im right about the wedding cup and im right about the AH allach
PHIL BROWN
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Mark,give Kris a call. Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4 |
Gents, I think that tiptop photos would be needed for more in-depth study, but this unit has all the earmarks of being a 100% original piece of Allach. There are lots of great originals out there just waiting to be discovered that never made it into catalogs nor are they featured in most of the books and articles available to our collecting community. Many thanks for sharing this with us! Bill
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24 |
Hhhm,
original or not - it looks nice and I like it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
Kris L. and Dennis Porell have had a look at it and both, gave their thumbs up. Now, the big question is, "how much is it worth ?"
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
quote: Originally posted by Pat: Kris L. and Dennis Porell have had a look at it and both, gave their thumbs up. Now, the big question is, "how much is it worth ?"
Thanks Pat. I just got online and have email from Kris. I must answer his email. Seems like a very nice guy as is Dennis. I will say that the piece is for sale and now all I want to do is figure out what is a decent price to get for it. I have the original "The Fox Hole" catalog from May 20, 1976 (That is Manion's BTW) that will go with the piece. (I have all Manion's catalogs, or near all from the beginning.) I will send the original pics my daughter took to any interested party here. Thanks folks, great group of collectors here! Lloyd deForest
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
Hi all. I have just received and accepted an offer. I am sure it will be in Dennis's book for us all to see. Thanks All!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
quote: Originally posted by lloyd: Hi all. I have just received and accepted an offer. I am sure it will be in Dennis's book for us all to see. Thanks All!
NOTE....NOTE....NOTE: IF perchance this deal goes to pieces, I will let all you interested parties know. I have accepted the offer now it is up to the prospective buyer. Just wanted all to be aware.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
Who might this be , Kris, Dennis, Kingtiger ?????????? I'm just guessing !
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623
|
OP
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 623 |
quote: Originally posted by Pat: Who might this be , Kris, Dennis, Kingtiger ?????????? I'm just guessing !
Pat, an Alexandra from Germany is so far the high offer however IF this person doesn't come through, it's anyone's piece IF they so desire and IF the price is fair and honest.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
I sure hope that it get's through !
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162 |
nice peice, im guessing your offer would be around the $1200-$1400 mark,,, and worth it.seiler, could you please find a link for me regarding the forum you spoke about, thanks, phil
PHIL BROWN
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162 |
seiler, youve gone very quiete since proven wrong, still waiting for a link .
PHIL BROWN
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Phil I was not wrong.I was cautious as a rarity. It was cleared by people whose expertise I trust.QED. I sent you an email and a second link. PS,I have another life outside of GDC and others. Cheers Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 162 |
thanks, but i never read e,mails. you seem to have a good few replys for your time out the forums. thanks for the reply anyway.
PHIL BROWN
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24 |
Hello to all:
this is an open letter to every serious collector, member of this forum and to the responsible founders of this forum.
As it is visable for every forum member I bought this Allach cup from Mr. Lloyd deForest for the amount of $3500.
So we both have a contract and suddenly Mr. Forest is not willing any more to send me the Allach cup after receiving the money.
I have every E-mail he send to me and I send to him and I want to let all members here know about this - in my opinion - illegal behaviour!
I am a citizen of the USA and so - although living in Germany right now - it won�t be a problem to take legal action.
I would be pleased if Mr. Hohaus or Mr. Gottlieb would help me in this case since it is not good for this forum if members like Mr. Forest behave in such a way!
Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Ren�e Alexandra Carolyn from West Warwick, Road Island
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Hi Alexandra, I,m from Nth Attleboro,Mass..not far away.. Sorry to read of your "troubles" unfortunately money talks.I expected something like this might happen.I hope the transaction is resolved as agreed and amicably. Cheers Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Alexandra, are you related in any way to Thorsten? I am just curious....Maybe not...but I was told you were and if so, maybe there could be some problem. In what form did you send the payment? This is a serious matter if it is factual as you present it and will most certainly affect this piece and any sale that may follow. Allach is "hard to hide" as those of us who collect it often know where certain pieces wind up...in case we hit the lottery and can now chase after them. Mark
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24 |
Hello Mark,
First: it is too obvious and visable to everybody (because Mr. deForest posted that directly by himself!) that he sold his Allach cup to me right in this thread.
I can forward you all the E-mails that he send to me: first (09.02.) he said that "something has arisen and cup not available at this time."
Then (10.02.): "Hello and again, the piece is unavailable. If money is received, it will be duly returned. Please do NOT send money. Thank You, Regards, Lloyd."
Then (10.02.):"Hi again, it is my understanding that the german authorities do not want or permit Allach pieces into Germany and I will not even attempt to circumvent German policy by sending this piece to you."
It goes on in my next reply...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24 |
Here it goes on:
"If I should in fact receive funds from you they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law.
Thank You for your understanding,
Lloyd deForest"
Judge yourself it this is on the one hand true at all what he wrote about German law and on the other hand if this is a man who should stay as a member in this forum. Remember: this could have happened to everybody here...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Never heard of this German authorities ruling?? I have bought AND sold Allach into/from Germany. Never encountered ANY problems. SEnt from UK AND USA to Germany. Maybe certain UK Dealers can comment?? Seiler (Yank in UK)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24 |
Hello seiler,
thank You for your comments. In fact: these german authorities rues just does not exist!
BTW: if Mr. deForest has absolutely a problem sending the piece to Germany he can send it to my relatives in West Warwick!
It is all too obvious what happened but I will fight for my rights!
Guess who may have an interest in buying this Allach cup??
A collector or a DEALER - so..?!
Where can this piece (like other pieces went already officially or not) go without showing up on the american or european market...?!
So there is the solution of this whole thing!
Too easy - too obvious...
Really easy? - Let us test the law!
|
|
|
Forums42
Topics31,677
Posts329,287
Members7,539
|
Most Online5,900 Dec 19th, 2019
|
|
8 members (derjager, Stephen, bushido, Dave, Skyline Drive, Ric Ferrari, Dutchman, atis),
504
guests, and
87
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|