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I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96461 12/14/2006 08:12 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA Christmas came a bit early. A good friend told me about a black handled German dagger at a local pawn shop with the price tag of about 600 USD. I decided to check it out believing he had seen a fake or an NSKK........My faith has been restored ie. you can still find a Diamond in the rough......Best Wishes too all Jimmy PC130970.JPG (69.25 KB, 552 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96462 12/14/2006 08:13 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA SS2 PC130971.JPG (68.41 KB, 548 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96463 12/14/2006 08:14 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA SS3 PC130972.JPG (71.69 KB, 531 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96464 12/14/2006 08:15 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA SS4 PC130973.JPG (74.64 KB, 526 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96465 12/14/2006 08:15 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA SS5 PC130975.JPG (67.09 KB, 529 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96466 12/14/2006 08:17 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA SS6..........She is not mint, but she has plenty of character for a fixer upper. PC130979.JPG (72.46 KB, 520 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96467 12/14/2006 09:03 AM Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1 Gold Country S Serge (aka Wagner) Serge (aka Wagner) S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,616 Likes: 1 Gold Country MERRY CHRISTMAS ! and congratulations! -wagner-

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96468 12/14/2006 09:50 AM Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 910 EUROPE J JONATHAN JONATHAN J Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 910 EUROPE Good for you, nice dagger at an extremely nice price - and a rare trademark to boot ! Jonathan

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96469 12/14/2006 11:28 AM Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,807 Australia S sdp sdp S Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,807 Australia Excellent!!! Deals like that don't get any better.

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96470 12/14/2006 01:25 PM Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5 Skyline Drive Skyline Drive Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,039 Likes: 5 The interesting pre-RZM hanger looks to be in great shape and is original to the dagger judging by the swing wear on the back of the grip. Great find!

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96471 12/14/2006 03:48 PM Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,430 Likes: 1 Orleans, Ontario B Bernie Brule Bernie Brule B Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,430 Likes: 1 Orleans, Ontario Wow. Large Eickhorn maker marked SS dagger for $600. There really is a Santa Claus. Very nice. "And I will show you where the Iron Crosses grow" -Cross of Iron

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96472 12/14/2006 03:59 PM Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 498 blademan blademan Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 498 Congratulations! You must have been good this year for Santa to give such a nice present Very nice dagger with a maker mark that is great as well. I guess I'll have to better next year and maybe Santa will be good to me like this. Thanks, Blademan

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96473 12/14/2006 04:21 PM Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,024 Likes: 2 Ennismore, Ont, Canada lakesidetrader lakesidetrader Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,024 Likes: 2 Ennismore, Ont, Canada Most of us only dream about such finds.... I'm happy for ya Jimmy! Visit me at www.Lakesidetrader.com

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96474 12/14/2006 04:33 PM Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 Quincy, Illinois USA Ronald Weinand Ronald Weinand Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 Quincy, Illinois USA Well done! I have always said you have to check out every lead, even when you doubt that anything good will come of it. Did the store have anything else? I always ask because there may be other diamonds lurking under the counter or he may not have asked the original seller if they had anything else to sell and the $600 might motivate him. Ron Weinand Weinand Militaria MAX CHARTER MEMBER LIFE MEMBER OVMS

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96475 12/14/2006 05:28 PM Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,026 Z zorro zorro Z Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,026 Viper, What will you do to "fix it up"? "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96476 12/14/2006 05:30 PM Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,430 Likes: 1 Orleans, Ontario B Bernie Brule Bernie Brule B Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,430 Likes: 1 Orleans, Ontario Is it a painted scabbard? I had one of these early Eickhorns years ago and it had a period painted scabbard. "And I will show you where the Iron Crosses grow" -Cross of Iron

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96477 12/14/2006 05:43 PM Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,682 Likes: 54 Brunswick Twp! Ohio P pvon pvon P Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,682 Likes: 54 Brunswick Twp! Ohio Congratulations! Always nice to find one this way! PVON

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96478 12/14/2006 05:44 PM A Anonymous Unregistered Anonymous Unregistered A Thems are are deals that I could go fer myself. Great catch.

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96479 12/14/2006 06:19 PM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA I have already done all I am going to do. Just a little light cleaning. It was very grunge when I got her. Oh yes Ron, I have left my name and number in case something else walks in. Thank you all for the kind words. I was so excited I could hardly sign the check...Best Jimmy..

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96480 12/14/2006 06:22 PM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA Yes Bernie, the scabbard is painted I had assumed a period repaint due too wear of the factory finish. Any chance that is the origional finish.......Jimmy

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96481 12/14/2006 06:37 PM Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,304 Canada P patrice patrice P Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,304 Canada Hi Jimmy, I'm happy for you that you were able to get such a nice dagger for only 600 $. That's a hell of a bargain I say. Congrats and I'm certain that you'll have a wonderful Christmas. Cheers mate.

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96482 12/14/2006 08:20 PM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,291 Out California Way Swordfish Swordfish Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,291 Out California Way Really nice find and super price. In the words of Napolean Dynomite, "LUUCKYYY". _______________________ German Sabers

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96483 12/14/2006 09:14 PM Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,430 Likes: 1 Orleans, Ontario B Bernie Brule Bernie Brule B Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 3,430 Likes: 1 Orleans, Ontario I wonder if the early Eickhorns with the large maker mark had painted scabbards from the factory? "And I will show you where the Iron Crosses grow" -Cross of Iron

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96484 12/14/2006 09:37 PM Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,304 Canada P patrice patrice P Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,304 Canada quote: Originally posted by Bernie Brule: I wonder if the early Eickhorns with the large maker mark had painted scabbards from the factory? Interesting theory and I'm bound to agree with you Bernie ! There seems to be many "early" painted black scabbards with SS blades out there. Perhaps, some were indeed painted in black. Who knows what happened then ?

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96485 12/14/2006 09:59 PM Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 Quincy, Illinois USA Ronald Weinand Ronald Weinand Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 Quincy, Illinois USA All the maker marked M33 SS Daggers that I have obtained directly from veterans were blued. Some even with painted finishes that look original, when the lower scabbard fitting was removed, the blue was evident under the fitting. Ron Weinand Weinand Militaria MAX CHARTER MEMBER LIFE MEMBER OVMS

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96486 12/14/2006 10:27 PM Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,304 Canada P patrice patrice P Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,304 Canada Interesting observation Ron. I'm tempted to remove the lower fitting of my black painted scabbard and see what's underneath. Perhaps, it is blued !

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96487 12/14/2006 11:26 PM Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 15,100 Likes: 102 Southeast Dave Dave Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 15,100 Likes: 102 Southeast I would agree with Ron about about all the maker-marked SS daggers having blued scabbards with one exception: A. Schuttelhofer daggers seem to have come from the factory with black painted scabbards. The paint is a low gloss black - almost a matt finish. Also - the fittings on that vertical hanger look real but I would want to see more of the leather. All of the pre-RZM ones I have seen have thicker leather. The little keeper looks way too big. Dave

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96488 12/15/2006 06:48 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA Dave.I will try and get some detailed pictures of the hanger from different angles when I have better light.............Jimmy

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96489 12/15/2006 08:46 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA Here is the Hanger PC150980.JPG (73.16 KB, 223 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96490 12/15/2006 08:46 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA VERT2 PC150981.JPG (71.52 KB, 221 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96491 12/15/2006 08:47 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA vert3 PC150982.JPG (72.68 KB, 183 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96492 12/15/2006 08:48 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA vert4 PC150983.JPG (76.73 KB, 182 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96493 12/15/2006 08:50 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA vert5 PC150984.JPG (69.38 KB, 177 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96494 12/15/2006 08:51 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA vert6 PC150985.JPG (75.42 KB, 176 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96495 12/15/2006 08:52 AM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA vert7 PC150986.JPG (63.88 KB, 172 downloads)

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96496 12/17/2006 04:56 AM Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,054 Ohio, USA vintagetimenow vintagetimenow Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,054 Ohio, USA The verticle is not like anything I've even seen, even the early non-standard ones. I'd think if one was trying to make a reproduction, you'd make it more like a standard verticle....so I don't know what to make of it. The edges of the leather make it look like the leather is of more recent production. I have no idea if it is real, but I think many collectors would not like this one. Still, it's a hell of a bargain you got. Congrats! John

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96497 12/17/2006 04:43 PM Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA V VIPER OP OP VIPER V Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 414 Greenville, NC, USA May be a homemade one? The wear pattern on the hanger sure matches that of the dagger and only when the dagger is in the verticle position as it would be when worn. It looks similar to the one on Pg 591 left in Toms book. And also look at the wear on the underside of the clip. Well even if fake I can take it off and through it away and I am still way ahead on this piece.........Jimmy

Re: I'm Dreaming of a Black Christmas #96498 12/17/2006 05:48 PM Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,054 Ohio, USA vintagetimenow vintagetimenow Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,054 Ohio, USA Could be homemade during the period. The leather looks like it's from a jacket or something...thinner and softer than usual. Based on the wear, it must have been there while the dagger was carried. Any way you look at it, an nice score.