UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum How many SA's are left?

Since the Pfeilringwerk SA went for $911 on eBay, it has been mentioned that if SS daggers are fetching $4000, nice SA's should get 25% of that. There were over 4 million men in the SA, and it would reason quite a number of their daggers survived. And our GI's were the first great TR dagger collectors. Does anyone have any idea what the population might be for SA daggers in the USA?

No one could possibly know the answer to your question, but my comments are limited to early maker marked daggers as far as value goes. Even if there was an SA dagger produced for every SA man, which I doubt, many of these were RZM models. Many more have been thrashed to uncollectible condition and many ended up in the hands of the Russians.

You have essentially supported my own contention that this hobby is simple supply and demand economics. Even though the SA and Army models are the most common, examples which we wish to add to our collections must be limited. If there were ample supplies, prices would not have reached as high as they have.

Flug- you are right, there are NOT ample supplies of daggers, there not making 'em anymore you know!
Limited supply + Strong demand = Todays prices

I expect there will be less available once I make my pass thru the MAX tomorrow morning!

Mark

I think that there are many SA out there but there are not that many NM-Mint condition. If you have a rare makers mark in nice condition its a great investment and rare dagger. These are only going to keep going up! When Tom Wittmanns book comes out they will sky rocket. The book will create intrest and better understanding of the dagger, thus making collectors feel better about spending 1k on a dagger. Look at the SS daggers after Toms book came out.

You are right on Eric! If you look on eBay any given day, you can see several SA's. All of them in condition that none of us would want. Then comes a mint one out of the closet, and it goes through the roof. Back in the mid to late 80's, Johnson's catalog was loaded with mint SA's. Today he lists his best as exc.++/nm. It would seem that the mint ones are in someone's safe.

Some of them are in mine.

quote:

Originally posted by kingtiger:
I expect there will be less available once I make my pass thru the MAX tomorrow morning!

Mark

Dammit man - dont you have enough!!

It's not that SA's are in and among themselves rare-they're not; tomorrow's MAX should prove that. Neither are Armies, 2nd Lufts or even M33 SS daggers for that matter.

What is rare, however is the desirabilityfactor of dagger sub-types. RZM SA's and late pot-metal Armies aren't as aesthetically pleasing as their earlier counterparts, hence prices are lower. As noted before, condition is a huge factor also.

But, there are IMHO, artificial desirability factors in play. The M33 SS isn't as rare as its' price tag suggests, but the reputation of the SS drives that price ever upwards. Another artificial factor previously mentioned is published books on the subject. TW's dagger books are a great example...after TW does a book, prices rise exponentially. Why? Dagger rarity didn't increase, but popularity did, much the same as what happened to US Airborne stuff after Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers.

The tail that wags the dog in SA collecting however is the collecting of maker marks. Not a slam, I used to do the same thing. This has made a common dagger(as daggers go), go through the roof in desirability. As the desirability, and hence price, of these daggers rise, it naturally drags the more common makers along but just not as high. Unfortunately, sometimes, I think all these factors tend to overshadow the historical significance of daggers in general.

Here in the UK SA daggers were appearing out of the woodwork on fairly regular occasions around ten years ago. Now the supply has dribbled. IMO many were were being found and passed on by the relatives of recently deceased vets. Price is all about supply and demand. The former has shrunk the latter increased. I actually buy some daggers now in a condition that I would not have contemplated a few years back. I also think a lot of people are now building collections as an investment. Think on the following.
1. If the market was suddenly flooded with good quality items from a few secure sources, would the prices drop, across the board?
2.If the supply comes back would it impact the value of low quality items? (dropping well below current prices)
3. Or would the quality/rare items still demand high prices even in the event of a supply surge? (keeping the differential between low & high quality intact)
4. If you were thinking of pulling the profit from your investment would you market them one at a time (slowly into the market) or sell them as a lot?

My personal view is that no matter what happens high prices and values will remain. Simply because it would be MY decision to sell or not. A "bird in the hand" scenario.

I am actually in the LA Quinta hotel typing this...damn jetlag!!

Skyline is right, not all SA men had daggers. Martin Schuster's paper showed the financial nightmare the unpaid for dagger orders meant for the OSAF, and how that was dealt with etc

Dwight and Spock both made great points.

I started collecting daggers back in the early 80's when a minty SA was no more than $50 (ah! the good ole days). As the years past and SA's climbed up in price, I remember saying "These prices have got to level off eventually". This is about the time when a minty SA reached the $200 mark. Since the first SA I bought, I must have heard those words come from my mouth dozens of times. Each time the price went up.
Now 6 months ago, none of us would have ever imagined that a gallon of gas would ever go down to $2 again. We were all wrong, but I'd still bet the farm that SA's will never be $50 again. Well...maybe in my dreams.

King, You missed this one today,but it was in T-Town. Maker : HERBECK & MEYER

If you need this maker let me know. Tommy

NSKK

I pick-up my first SA dagger from Mike C. which owns Houston Collectors FireArms.

He was asking $275 for a NSKK,I got him down to $ 250,but I was still B---- about the price !This was back in April 2000 ?

Tommy