UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum full Roehm

Full Roehm with nice uncleaned nicotine Patina and SS number 54928. Someone know who was this man?

another picture

picture3

picture4

54928 is not in the key but do not despair.Get ahold of Ross the SS researcher. He can put together a fantastic SS file for you perhaps. [email protected]

Hi Mai65:

A tentative congrats! It looks like your naughty nazi SS Mann No. 54 928 might be identifiable but the records have to be checked further for accuracy since typos do occur. Contact me for more information.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

great looking dagger, i'm jealous

Interesting dagger, do you have some better pics of the inscription and maker mark?

Red

Wow! what a gem. I am absolutely green. Some closeups of the etching and mm would be great.

Thanks for sharing.

If "54928 is not in the key" what does this number refer to? In the interests of my learning.

thanks

James

The Key only lists numbers attributed to officers Ross has managed to identify many non officer SS numbers by trawling thru the available archives.My Eickhorn ground Rohm is 54555 which currently is not known but on Ross's wanted list

Ernst R�hm

Mai,

Very interesting piece, but should be discussed in the R�hm section I think.

Do you have any idea what the black border on the blade near the crossguard might be, it seems to be there on both sides.

Best greetings,

Herman

Hermann:

Astute observation. It is always exciting for me to connect a name and a face to a number on a SS dagger, especially a full R�hm. So far, 14 real identified unground SS R�hm's have been documented. Here is SS Mann 54 928.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

But the devil is in the details. Now that we can identify some of these owners, additional resources can then be used to evaluate them. As most are aware, the SS Mann had to have continuous membership in the SS on or before 31 December 1931 to qualify to receive the Ehrendolch in 1934. Also continuous membership in the HJ or SA from that time leading to later membership in the SS qualified a SS Mann as well. According to the personal questionnaire our SS Mann submitted with his Race & Settlement File, he records that he was with the SS since 1932 and noted that he was never in the HJ or SA.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

One copy of his service personal record ( SS-Stammkarte ) was also in his Race & Settlement File. It notes that he achieved the rank of SS Mann on 1 May 1933. It also leaves blank (I added the asterisks) denoting that he had received the Ehrendolch. Caveat Emptor.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

The inscription and makermark on that dagger look almost too perfect.We collectors are never happy. Any other opinions does'nt hurt to ask.

Zorro, please, this one is a no brainer. Just look at the deep yellow tint on the fittings. You only get this type of nickel content on Roehm daggers from Eickhorn. There is no doubt on this one IMO,
Ron Weinand

I don't think it's bad .I think it is right as rain.That squirrel is flawless.I think it is impossible to tell anything about any of this stuff online anymore. At 30k there is no such thing as a no brainer. Ask questions and lots of them. IMO

WoW that is one heck of a nice looking dagger..pictures in this case do tell it all...I would have no problem making a purchase for this dagger from the pics provided, they and it in my opinion are that good! undisputable by those who know..Congrats....that dagger is better than money in the bank! cheers, Ryan

What bout the research by Ross which proves that this SS man never received a R�hm because he did not meet the criteria?

I do not question the Eickhorn R�hm dagger itself, but the numbers and the etching (which bring in about 25k of the 30k total value!) are not proven to be authentic in my opinion.

The black borders near the crossguard (which I indicated before), can be acid marks that were left from the possible re-etching.

Best greetings,

Herman

I think what is in question here is the number itself. Experts here seem to be satisfied that the dagger is in fact a Rohm.

So someone stamped a number on it not in the Key to increase the value, and has now been busted.

Just my observation, not too far from Hermanns.

Jim

I have no doubts about the originality this dagger. But after the research from Ross I have talked with the seller.He told me that He bought two SS daggers from a veteran. This one and another one. Both with numbers on the crossguards . He think maybe this man had mixed the blades. If it is so it must done a long time ago because this dagger was never open for many years. Bad the other dagger was also sold

In my opinion...the numbers upon the crossguard have not been done recently and are original to the piece...what must be determined is whether the Rohm etch is original...if it is I would have zero problems paying a fair market price for this dagger based upon what I know and see...cheers, Ryan

Where are Patrice and Gailen to offer comment???

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, I'm sure, that this puzzlement has arisen. The numbers are attributable, but the records indicate the owner was not eligible to receive a "Rohm," or his eligiblity is open to question. Instead of starting with the records to establish authenticity, start with the dagger. If it is authentic in all respects, isn't that sufficient to say it is a genuine "Rohm?" As important and comforting as records can be, I'm not sure they tell the whole story 100% of the time. Anyone who has been in the military or worked for the government is likely aware that records can be incomplete, distorted, confused, lost and otherwise. I was in the army with a man who was misidentifed as another person by the army. For almost a year, he has another name, date of birth, etc., which were not his, but the army required he be the other guy. Even his uniform name tags and dog tags were in the name of the man he was not. Eventually, the mess was straightened out, but it took a year or so. There are several possibilities, some probably unthought of, that could explain the records not reflecting that an SS member was qualified for a "Rohm," although his serial number appears on such a dagger. It is also possible a member wound up with a "Rohm," although unqualified for such.

i have seen black marks and rust pits on the top of the blade before i thinks its caused by the dagger being stored not fully home in the scabbard

UH-OH! No blade's
going to fit like that against the crossguard by just switching blades. Did'nt Ross say he recieved honor dagger? Thats an honor dagger is'nt it?.

Zorro, the area on the document says Ehrendolch, yes - no. Neither is marked, so officially from the document in this area alone, I suppose it could go either way whether he received it or not.

Regards

Russ

If they fudged dates for golden party badges couldn't they do the same for honor daggers??? He is only off in his membership by a mere few months...cheers, Ryan just asking if it is possible....

The fact we know for sure is the document was not filled out accurately because yes or no was not marked.It is 6 of one one half dozen of the other. It looks like he got one to me.

Hi All:

I have been interested in how these daggers were distributed. Perhaps some think it was a �we had some of these come in so raise your hand if you think you qualify for one� kind of thing. But it was far from that. The service personnel records on either the sturm or sturmbann level for a SS-Standarte were used to make lists of those qualifying along with the dates/memberships to prove qualification. There was a long paper trail involved in this process. Documents were then submitted up the command chain of the SS-Standarte where the orders were placed. In the example below, the Sturmbann wanted to know who was qualified to receive one along with how they qualified. With all of this effort to document who qualified, how they qualified, and the required documentation in personnel service records when they were distributed, it sure does pose an interesting question when the information doesn�t gel. I am going to look at his records again to see if there are any other clues.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

I do not think a check mark on a piece of paper makes a dagger right or wrong. So many things were suppose too be done that were not on early pieces ie Numbered,Rohm removal ect. In some early references it was thought that all Rohm dagger had too have numbers stamped on them to be original. The dagger has everything right about it and nothing wrong other than a check mark on a piece of paper.

From looking at hundreds of full and ground Roehm SS daggers with serial numbers, I am convinced that the qualifications varied over time and that any member of any NS organization PRIOR to March 1933 was "issued" one of these Roehm honor daggers if in the SS by June of 1934
IMO,
Ron Weinand
PS: Just by looking at this dagger (high nickel content fittings, extra quality grip and heavy special lacquer finish to the scabbard) it has all the Eickhorn honor dagger signs.

My hat's off to Mai. Many fear posting these rarer pieces for fear they will get trashed.
Thanks for sharing.

Just to clarify my earlier post, I was only commenting on the document not being marked either way - not the authenticity of the dagger or the numbering on it.

Regards

Russ

I'd love to own this dagger!