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Hello Guys,
here is a small Impression from three tagged RZM Daggers out of my Collection.
What did you think about that kind of Paper Tags? Is this kind of Paper-Tag original? In the last months, i heared voices that Dealers sell this Tags on Show�s.
Stefan
Searching for a near mint SA RZM 7/33.
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Oh my word stunning daggers
Regards Sean
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Do you have better pics of the tags?
Die Treue ist das Mark der Ehre!
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
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Searching for a near mint SA RZM 7/33.
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
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Searching for a near mint SA RZM 7/33.
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 16
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OP
Joined: Jun 2015
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I can�t find Photos from the 3rd Dagger but it is in the same quality.
I want to know if anybody have a period Photo from a Dagger with this kind of Paper Tag.
Searching for a near mint SA RZM 7/33.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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It seems my post was deleted for reasons unknown..concerning these RZM tags and some with metal rivets attached around the grip. I assure that my post was not in malicious intent..but in study..and comparison with this type shown above in the first post.
I am still hopeful there could be more comments expressed about the " Rivet paper " application on these RZM type daggers. Regards Larry
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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It seems my post was deleted for reasons unknown..concerning these RZM tags and some with metal rivets attached around the grip. I assure that my post was not in malicious intent..but in study..and comparison with this type shown above in the first post.
I am still hopeful there could be more comments expressed about the " Rivet paper " application on these RZM type daggers. Regards Larry Hi Larry, Invite Stefan to join us over on WRF, we can have an honest discussion over there without members posts disappearing with no reason why, this forum is famous for it ! Regards Mac 66.
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Although I personally do prefer the riveted tags  your daggers concerning condition do look like they do honestly deserve the RZM tags. Regards, 1a.jpg (198.14 KB, 286 downloads)
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Larry,
I have checked the Admin Log and no one deleted or altered anything you posted. I don't know what happened ... are you sure you pushed the right button?
On the daggers above, I have seen triangular tags and the paper ones around the grip and consider both versions OK.
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Hi Dave.. Not sure what happened ..I remember seeing what I typed..and the possibility exists that I may have not pushed the right button...my apologies if that were the case..but not to further derail this thread, I made sure to push down double hard on the post button.  Regards Larry
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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Joined: Mar 2014
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I've done some research on the paper tags and Johnson has one RZM SA dagger for sale which has a paper tag like Stefan's daggers. There are a couple of other sellers online that have daggers with the same type of paper tag.
I'd say get in touch with Johnson (Johnson Reference), Ralph Siegert or Mike McAlvanah (here on the forum). I bet these guys can help you out for sure with these tags.
Gruess,
Gerry
Die Treue ist das Mark der Ehre!
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The acids from the paper have an adverse affect on the wood underneath. You should be able to see discoloration of the grip under the paper tags. That gives credibility to the length of time the tags have been on.
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OP
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The acids from the paper have an adverse affect on the wood underneath. You should be able to see discoloration of the grip under the paper tags. That gives credibility to the length of time the tags have been on. There is no discoloration on the three Grips. Do you have a tagged Dagger in your Collection where you have seen this? I think that there is too less chemical Stuff in it to discolored the Grip.
Searching for a near mint SA RZM 7/33.
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I had a near mint example where I noted the discoloration, whether due to acid or simply wear against the wood for 70+ years I do not know. I sold it to one of the leading experts who determined it was original including the tag. There is no doubt about the discoloration.
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Here are photos. I do not think it shows the discoloration.
In this case there was still part of a RZM tag on the hanger.
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Stefan, I assume you have already checked the printing itself to make sure it is printed with Printers Ink and not some type of offset or other duplicating medium?
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Jim, my Tags are the same like yours.
My question is: are these kind of tags original in general. Have they be used before 1945?
Does anybody have a Photo from pre 1945 where we can see a Dagger, tagged with these kind of Paper Tags?
Searching for a near mint SA RZM 7/33.
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(Dear) Mac 66,your comment regarding the "missing post" was inappropriate and incorrect. Posts are not deleted for no reason, and the forum is not "famous" for this. A further transgression along these lines will result in a necessary consequence. Mike McAlvanah
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Mike is right. Posts do not disappear without explanation.
Only exception would be porn pics and links but its been a long while since one of these was posted.
Dave
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Repeating myself, but personally, I never was -nor will be- a fan of tags and paper bags. They are probably the easiest to copy WW2 item ever (with or without a rivet); you just need some old paper of the right type and the inc.
You can buy tags as much as you like at certain shows to "improve" the value of any shiny dagger.
I am absolutely sure that over 95% of these are added - yes, sometimes with an authentic tag found in the Solingen factories- to mostly, completely cleaned daggers... What exactly the point is of doing that, I never understood...
But some great daggers are shown here! Congratulations!
In my opinion, they would look even better without their tags!
Best regards,
Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Herman, sorry, but I have violently to disagree. Really (and I emphazize "really") unworn tagged/bagged edged weapons are for sure one of the kings classes in our hobby. I do not speak of any "nice" dagger which was bonnilied by a postwar added tag.
The true bagged/tagged daggers are extremely rare and most collectors don�t have the chance to hold one in hands during their whole collector�s life. And most collectors will be astonished when seeing and examine such a dagger. Eg overall frosted finish, artificial patination, the look of truely UNWORN laquered scabbards and much more - all might differ heavily from what we know from even nice but worn specimens. A true pleasure to have the opportunity to study or even own such an edged weapon.
Finally if you need or want to do you always can sell such an edged weapon in a flash and always for a high premium even nowadays when most collectibles have a hard sale.
Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Hi Wotan,
Good that we all don't have the same collecting objectives, right?
I have bought some fine pieces, which were offered with bag and/or tag: but I did not want to pay half of the asking price just for some old paper... which was lucky enough to escape from the trash bin, some 75 years ago...
The sellers most often agreed, offering the minty dagger alone and just planned to add that expensive wrapping paper to another dagger by that brand. Some of them later admitted that they had purchased dagger and paper and/or tag separately... and joined them ,only hoping to boost their asking price that way.
But then again, each of us has his own fun with collecting!
Good luck and best regards,
Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Herman, you are quite right. Taste and collecting ojectives do differ and, yes, it is good we all don�t have the same. And I don�t want to convince each collector to collect unworn bagged/tagged pieces. My comment was thought in a more theoretical way. Eg.I for myself do not collect stamps, but when you do look at certain ones, at the best wit a magnifying glass, they are true works of art and I do appreciate them although I am not collecting them. I do not collect paintings but I can stand in front of one for quite a while and appreciate each stroke of the brush, the spirit of the painting, what is pictured and so on. If anyone wants to avoid cobbled together pieces he would have to stop collecting. Because when it is done in an intelligent way (eg. maker, patination, overall condition fits) no one beside the crook will be able to detect it. Fortunately for us collectors such cobbling is mostly done in an unintelligent way  . Fortunately, concerning the unworn pieces, such cobbling as you do described can be detected in most cases by experienced collectors. As said even a NEARLY unworn piece cannot compete against a TRUELY unworn piece. You just have to know for what to look after. Just my personal point of view and just as a subject for discussion. Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Fair enough, Wotan,
I wrote that I believe that 95% is added, but I also believe that you go after the other 5%!
That is what it looks like anyway, when I see the fine pieces that you posted.
Best regards,
Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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funny I just like the tags.
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I currently have an M7/36 SA with grip tag and paper bag for sale that was veteran acquired. The grip tag label is common on late production daggers IMO.
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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Some of these tags must be made of... undestructable paper!  Best regards, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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I am having a dolch bag tested at the University of Georgia. Not a C 14 test but a test to show if the trees used for the paper and vegetables used for the ink was alive during nuclear testing. I would like to find some loose round types of dagger RZM tags to send for testing . Regards , Rattler
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A PAP smear of sorts [pre atomic paper]
Doug
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