UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum SS Pioniere visor/crusher cap

Here are some photos of what is told to be a original pioniere crusher cap.

From side

Inside.
It has Russian museum stamps in top of lining.
Any comments on this one..?

although the hat is beat to death from wear, the insignia appear brand new. Rubbber stamps are easy t make. I do not like either the construction or shape of this hat.
Bob

abt.lola....are you purchasing this cap?I dont doubt the authenticity of this cap....but the condition is obviously horrible.Have you had this cap in hand ... there are some major repairs(not period repairs).If you are purchasing this cap....I hope you get it for next to nothing.I assume it is coming from Russia....are the stamps Russian?The SS insignia has most likely been reapplied to this cap.

Whatever the provenance of this co****-looking cap, the insignia are certainly re-applied and inappropriate. You seldom get get more than you pay for, but you can very easily get less.

Whatever the provenance of this co****-looking cap, the insignia are certainly re-applied and inappropriate. You seldom get more than you pay for, but you can very easily get less.

Sorry for the duplicate transmission. Colleague abt.Iola - the text filtering process here is misleading; I chose a word that simply means raw or rough but happens to end in a "swear" (my goodness) - no expletive used or intended. Frog. (C-O-A-R-S-E)

Thanks for comments.!
I have not hold the cap in my hand yet. A friend of mine is getting it from a collector in the u.k. I was interested in some comments, to see if I you had the same oppinion as I had.
Yes the insignia looks reapplied, but they look good to me, as in original. And I do have faith
in the cap also. Some period repairs, and some later ones as you stated.
This cap is most likely to enter my collection with time. Yes it`s worn out, but it looks mighty cool!

kim
http://www.ww2visorcaps.com

Colleague - Do be careful here. Perhaps the insignia are authentic, but they do not belong on this cap - how exactly would you crush this item?! This is a Frankenstein in my opinion, and no matter how cheap, you will never have the confidence of originality, nor will the market when you eventually try to sell it. Frog.

AntiqueFrog....the insignia(assuming they are authentic)are quite appropriate for this cap.I am guessing you consider them inappropiate as they are metal as opposed to cloth.Metal insignia however is the norm for SS visor caps(Service or those of the "Crusher" variety).Cloth insignia when found on SS visor caps would have been requested or applied at the discretion of owner.

Kim,abt.lola, if you can get a good shot of the Russian stamps I will translate. It might be a inventory 'log in date' or something similar. ,G.

it also appears to have the proverbial "russian" museum or film stampings...I'll let you knon in a bit what it says.

I can not give you a solid opinion on the cap, sorry. My biggest concern is the very co**** weave of the material. This appears almost "blanket" like and is different from even very late feldgrau basic cloth that I have observed. I will go on to say that the uniform looking wear on this co**** weave cloth is not reflected in the cap band as best as I can see.

The cap may be period, but it really needs a carefull going over to make a determination.

As to the metal insigina not being the original set to cap, I ask , who cares? I've never seen a cap im my collecting career that I would stake my life on the insignia (metal) being period attached. It is too easy to replace and replace perfectly and for that matter it was replaced wartime so what is the big deal with people getting bent out shape guessing on if some orginal eagle has been on the cap for 60 years or 30 years, I don't get it.

If anyone bothers to carefully look at and study say 200 period photos of SS crushers being worn, they will find that around 70+% employed one or both insignia in metal. Actually find photos of SS crushers with both insignia in cloth is fairly hard to do....

Despite current popular opinion, I do not believe that these cap were generally wadded up into little balls and otherwise folded, bent or mutilated by there wartime wearers, hence metal insignia work just fine.

Hi Gaspare. As I don`t have the cap here
closeups of stamings are hard. But I`ll try
to magnify them on my computer.
The clothing below cap band seem to be of a fine
grade, compared to the top cloth.
Sorry no better close ups.

You are correct about the lower band of feldgrau material and I have to say that the more I look this cap the better I think that the chances are that it is period. I also notice what seems to be a large repair that has been made to the wearer's right side of the cap body.

I have a Heer crusher that I was given about 25 years ago by the vet, the German vet who wore it that is. My crusher is much,much more worse for wear and period repairs than this one.

Hi JDS!
Well I got quite a good feeling for this one. But I need to have it hand to tell for sure.
I have seen many ss caps, but not many good ones.
I would love to see your worn out crusher cap.
If not here on the ss forum, maybe on my e-mail?

Thank`s everyone for oppinions. Keep them coming.

kim
http://www.ww2visorcaps.com

Colleague Dave T. - I stand corrected, you are certainly right here. While I find the discontinuity between cap and insignia in this example more insidious than on the typical hard visor, perhaps by its nature, they are not per se inconsistent. You are correct. Frog.

I've got a few heer crushers and my first observation about the cap above is the unusual leather visor. It's very, very short compared to the caps I own and others I have seen. It also seems to have been moulded with a distinct ridge or "bump" on the upper part next to the cap frame which is similar to vulcan fibre visors. I've not seen this done with leather visors before..puzzling..

I think the reason for the visor beeng so short
is in fact that it has shrinked. wet then dry etc. but not at the top of the visor where it is
sewn to the cap. Plausible?
That`s my guess.

Kim , sorry can't make out anything on the Russian stamp. When you get the cap try with another image.
The top square stamp,,bottom line ends with a number then r...The r is for year, so what ever is in front of it is the year that it was entered into inventory..,G.