UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Numbers on SS Crossguards

Those of us who collect SS daggers have noticed that there is no consistency to the numbers on SS daggers. They are found stamped in many fonts and sizes as well as what looks like jeweler-engraved. Most are on or under the rear of the lower crossguard, but other places too. Sometimes multiple places.

It would be interesting to see varying examples and I think it would help newer collectors.

Here is one of mine. It appears to be engraved. It is on my K&M dagger - the first one ever found - that is in TW's book.

Dave

Here is a really interesting one. A Gembruch that is also in that book.

If you look at it straight on, there is nothing that interesting except that it is a low number.

But, if you tilt it back and forth in the light, you can see that the number was scratched onto the crossguard. I surmise that the owner wanted to make 100% sure that the guy doing the stamping got the number correct

Great tread Dave

Here some close up pics of the SS Klaas M 33 with SS number 137-003 and Gruppenumber III on crossguard.

Its very rare to see the same numbers engraved on the crossguard and scabbard trout.
Thanks too Paul Hogle for helping me with this SS dagger some time ago

Enjoy the pics SS collectors









The lower crossguard and the scabbard throat are Jeweler engraved "137003"
Again all the fits are there. This has never been apart since the day it left the factory.
The scabbard and blade have always been
together as evidenced by the engraving

That is one stunning piece.
You can't go wrong when buying from Paul.

Jarle:

Very, very nice... and I totally agree with Pat.

John

Im glad you like it John & Pat
That Klaas is a sure Keeper in my SS collection.

I wish it could talk` to me

Dave.
have your Rzm 7-29 gruppemark I or is there rest of more digits from gruppemarking ?

The mark is "I"

But it is not an M7/29

Thanks Dave.
I have seen that dagger in the book of Witty many times. I was to fast to write sorry
A great and very rare dagger with sircel Klitterman & Moog makers mark.

LH

On the stamped examples, it is interesting to see the 'ghost' numbers where the number die struck more than once....from the rebound of the hard hit. Apparently, it took a pretty good bit of force to stamp these that deep. Sometimes they spared the group mark, others, just stamp over it as in this example.

It is cool to be able to put a face to the owner, even if he was a WWI vet called back up to duty in the SS office....

Great pics John. Thanks for sharing.

I have another Early Klaas with a 5 digit SS number. The Gruppemark is stamped over .

Klaas SS 33 Number 70093

LH

Here is an interesting crossguard I got on a real junker of a dagger. Actually an M7/29.

The number is stamped on the guard THREE times. The guy must be paranoid.

I have since cleaned the guard agressively to get rid of that stain. The stain, by the way, is what that green goo (verdigris) eventually does to nickel silver.

Here is what it looks like now

Rear.

It took a lot of work to get the stain off.

Hi Dave-
The crossguard looks great now.
What did you use to get that stain off?

Yes, what did you use to clean that god?

Simichrome and patience

Dave

Hi, here's the only numbered example I have.
Ross Kelbaugh did some preliminary research
and found the owner as being an enlisted member of the LAH in the in the 30s, then moving on to Totenkopf in the 40s. Someday I will get his entire file, but for now, this is ok.

if anyone wants to rip this dagger, i would be happy to hear about it.

I just thought the sudden silence was deafening.
I really want to follow this thread, but wasn't sure if



I only wsnt to see more of this thread, and i'd had to think i stumped it with a really badly stamped example.

I am not sure what you were expecting for an answer. I see no problems.

One thing that is apparent is that stamping numbers onto crossguards was much harder than the stampers anticipated. Many of the guards show repeated strikes.

Dave

yes, i agree. they are nasty stamps.
im just bumbed that every time i post something,
anything, it gets roundly ignored.
dave, this rant does not include you. you have always been cordial and curious.
i spend a lot of money on books, as well as items. i try to do my homework, but im a novice, and always will be, i hope. but who do you guys think that you will be selling your collections to? some guy on ebay?
my point is, be patient and tolerant of us younger, dumber enthusiasts.

and dont spare the punches!

I like those stampings as well. Typical period Numbers...anywhere from 2 to 4mm. Nice!

John

Here is another 3 times stamped that I own. Twice on the lower crossguard - both buggered up - and once on the scabbard thoat.

Here's the only numbered one I have.

How can I se if it is not postwar numbered?
It is easy to do to upgrade the value of a dagger

Is it dificult for the experts to give me some tips about this matter?

I apologize to all if I seemed to rant earlier.

Hi All:

Though I am usually most partial to SS daggers numbered to those not in the Dienstalterslistes , I couldn't pass up on this Ehrendolch when it was recently offered by JR. It is a full ground B�ker that belonged to Obersturmf�hrer Richard Heib. The condition along with the amount of information, including photos in uniform, available on Heib made it particularly attractive. I also like those where the SS Mann saw action and was more than a desk jockey. Here are the highlights of his service:

1 June 1918- 1 November 1918: Served on the Western Front as a Kanonier in the Bayerische Fuss Artillerie Regiment Metz

1 November 1919- 1 March 1920: Reichswehr; 11. Dragoner Regiment Darmstadt

October 1931-May 1932: SA

6 June 1932-1937: 10. SS-Standarte

September 1937-1 March l942: F�hrer des SS-Sturmes 5/ 85. SS-Standarte

*1939-1941: Served in the Wehrmacht or the Waffen-SS on both the Western and Eastern Fronts where he was wounded

1 March 1942- April 1943: 125. SS-Standarte
1 March 1942: Adjutant in the Hauptamt
13 July 1942: F�hrer of I. Sturmbann/ 125. SS-Standarte

20 April 1943- : Waffen-SS

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Here is one of Heib's photos which was attached to his NSDAP membership filecard. He qualified to receive this SS Ehrendolch since he was a continuous member of the SA from before 31 December 1931 until he joined the SS in June 1932.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

One of the interesting aspects of the dagger is the evidence that the scabbard once had an applied center mount. Tom W. points out that some SS men modified their Model 1933 daggers to imitate the 1936 Model style due to a shortage of the new chained scabbards.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

And for those "experts" who say they didn't do it, I found this image last week in my research. This SS-Hauptscharf�hrer modified his dagger with a center mount so it hung from what appears to be at least one black leather strap with a rivet fastener. This is the first photo I have come across that documents this type of modification.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Tough to get a good pic of a close-up here when working with JPEG's, but here is it.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

WOW Ross.
"GOLD" information. Well done again