UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Help with 2nd Luftwaffe before selling

Hi, As some of you may know , I run a website selling purely Third Reich daggers and bayonets.
I am no expert as I state on the website , although I know quite a bit.
I have just got in this 2nd model Luft with a plain blade and wanted some advice on it before I sell it, to pass on to the buyer.
It is quite a heavy piece , particularly the pommel and the scabbard . The eagle appears to have a bronze colour coming through the plating , and the scabbard rings appear to have a brass look under the plating.
The scabbard has detail to it and a screw at the top on either side.
The grip feels quite light although does have a wood core to it.
The blade appears to have the clamp seams on the tang , and a mark which looks a bit like a number 8 or similar.
Any help on this would be much appreciated before I sell.
Thanks to all.

www.simplydaggers.co.uk

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www.simplydaggers.co.uk

Please test: Is the scabbard magnetic? Is the ferrule magnetic? Are the scabbard rings magnetic? Put the dagger in the scabbard and hold the dagger simply on the uper ring with two fingers - does it hang in the proper angle or does it topple over (do not know if this is the right word but I think you know what I mean)?

Hi Wotan, in answer to your questions;
1. the scabbard is NOT magnetic
2. the ferrule IS magnetic
3. the scabbard bands are NOT magnetic
4. when you hold the dagger in its scabbard , with 2 fingers on the top ring, it lies perfectly in the correct position.
Hope this helps.
Thanks

www.simplydaggers.co.uk

So you might have here an early nickeled or silvered brass second luft. But I have to admit that I do not like the grip with the wooden core partially coming out of it�s white coat. Have seen this on period grip coats fited with postwar wooden cores for replacements. But also might be period, would need a close in hand inspection. Also I do not like a brass early dagger with no maker mark. As you wrote "plain blade" I assume the dagger is not maker marked. The dagger also could be a good copy, hard to tell from these pics. Personally I have not seen a brass base metal 2nd Luft as they came some years after their earlier army counterparts (there are armies out of brass base metal).
More detailed and clear pics at least of the crossguard front, the pommel, the scabbard bands and the scabbard overall pebbling would be necessary to make a more clear decision to the one or the other side.

Hi, Here are the other pictures.
Just to confirm , the blade does not have a maker mark.
Thanks, Ian

www.simplydaggers.co.uk

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Sorry for the delay.I did my best in examine and comparing your dagger with my own daggers and also comparing your dagger with trhose in TTW�s book. There are several points I do like and there still are several points (e.g. the already mentioned grip configuration; the crossguard eagle and especially some feathering on it which I - up to now could not registrate on any period 2nd luft; the scabbard bands) I do not like with your dagger. How hard I tried I have to admit that only a careful in hand inspection could lead to any concrete result.
I really wonder why not at least one other mebers is willing to tell us his personal thoughts. Or his experiences concerning (obviously) brass based 2nd luft daggers.

Thanks for that up to now Wotan , I am very grateful.
The dealer who sold this to me is a decent person and states they bought it from Thomas Johnson in 1996. Johnson cannot obviously remember this but sent me a nice email containing the following;

'I can tell you that, contrary to most collector and dealer opinions on the heavy Luftwaffe parts, that they were original, as evidenced by the chapter in my Volume II of Collecting the Edged Weapons of the Third Reich, entitled "Major Jim Atwood Goes to Solingen". The photographs that you see in that chapter of hundreds of left-over Luftwaffe crossguards and pommels were all of the heavy variety'

Thanks , Wendy.

www.simplydaggers.co.uk

Ian.

I have quite a few 2ND Lufts, all mine have magnetic scabbards. A few have non magnetic rings. If it is an early one as Wotan suggests. Then IMO the Grip and wire do not match the rest. The three I have with no MM on the blade all have brass wire round the grip. Without looking at books (I have yet to buy TW set) I am just going on items I can hold in my hand. I would go with Thomas Johnson`s opinion on the bulk of the dagger but the Grip may be a later part.

What does the top of the crossguard look like? Etched or recessed?

Simply Daggers,

Could we have a close up picture of your pommel. Thats an awfully large acorn? I believe I have one similar that was briefly discussed. Thanks.

Hi I have got 2 more pictures re the last 2 comments .
Hope this helps
www.simplydaggers.co.uk

Forgot to say , the pattern on the crossguard is recessed.
www.simplydaggers.co.uk