Look at the cast lines, but also the hallmarks! Skulls are the toughest of them all...here's one reason why... (pictures courtesy of eBay.de)

anyone else thinks that this is a bad ring?

a super rare pattern ring.. I have a interwar period advert for it!

This one,,not too bad looking to me!

I knew it! As soon as i have seen this one pop up i hit that "Buy It Now" button.
Lucky i got this one, extremely rare. Just wish i could find out who was the jeweler
as it has some good jeweler marks for research.

Thanks Gaspare, when you get a chance it would be nice if you can please post the pic of the period advert for this ring.

Hey congrats and good for you ado... I saw this and got a different opinion from someone else whose opinion I trust. But guess you win again you super sniper! Aren't you the lucky buyer! And let's all hope you find more great rings!

Call me paranoid, but i think it is a cast fake and think it has a lot problems.
Just my opinion.
Best is you like it

can someone explain to me the meaning between a cast made ring and others?

Agree with Odal, if you have a chance better get your money back.

Cast usually refers to it being a fake , as most German rings are traditionally Die struck .

Cast means it has been made from a casting mold, usually of an original ring. It's a copy. There are lots of casting methods- if you get a chance, google it- investment, lost wax, etc. Generally speaking, the main way these ring were made is by a pressed die, also called "die-struck" rings. They could be pressed, stamped, maybe even made through a rolling block - but the character traits are thin banded, light pieces from die struck rings- at least in terms of these kantinenrings. The consensus is that honor rings were made the same way, not poured into casting molds. The member "hapur" reproduces beautifully done personalized honor rings on the traditional die struck way. Some believe however that these rings were cast (I don't) but to each their own.

I did not expect nothing else from you. This is third of my rings where you have attacked them and that is after Gaspare has called them good and original rings.

I will prove to you right here that you dont know...
look back in 2012 how your friend Hapur has attacked one of your rings for the same reason you are attacking mine right here right now "cast mark" right inside the same left eye socket! Hmmm And what was your response....

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=271736#Post271736

Mike, i hope when you have seen this ring for sale that for opinions you didn't contact Odal or Hapur bacause if you continue listening to two of them you will miss on a lot more good original rings!

Where is your problem?
Different people have different opinions to all times.
Not worth for me a dispute.
If you are not able to read an opinion you don`t like
you are at the wrong place here.

I think someone other has still told this to you.

ado,

Posting a negative opinion of an artifact is not an "attack". Consider re-reading the board rule. A link is at the bottom of every page.

If you cannot accept varying opinions, you may want to look for another venue.

thanks mike for the explanation. so how can you tell the difference between cast and die struck looking at any ring?
i see gotz has pointed out some in perfections. is that the way?

You have to know what you're looking for, for sure... casting flaws come from things you might expect to find as a problem with say- something you put in a pan to bake that's liquid at first- but then comes out solid. So - casting "balls" and dots- where it was formed as a solid sphere from the "baking"'- usually around the edges... pockets that make "pits"'or pitting that can't be explained really as anything other than air trapped in a cast mold. Other cast flaws can include lines,ridges, or depressions that are evenly drawn throughout a piece, that indicate a flaw in the mold. It looks like a bundt cake, basically. Die flaws also exist though- where a die has worn, or has an imperfection- overstrikes and understrikes, kind of like the flaws you see in coin collecting.

These are from casting. (Imo) - and by the way, there's a disagreement as to whether these rings were in fact cast during the period. I, myself, do not believe they were. Many others, experts included - disagree.

thanks mike! makes total sense. thanks for explaining that and the diagram helped. always wondered that but never asked. cheers!

If one member said that the ring is good and next member follows with ring is not good, then that member should follow with the picture of the same pattern ring and compare it with the ring that started the thread and point out the differences.
If you search history of this forum you will not find another ring like this so based upon what are we making our conclusions. We have to be constructive my last three good original rings have been attacked by same people , if Ado is not welcomed here no problem i will stop 🛑 !

Everyone is welcome here. Accepting criticism or hearing opinions without jumping to conclusions is all part of the study of artifacts leading to the truth. I try to qualify all of my opinions with "imo"or "imho" for precisely this purpose. I wanted to illustrate and underline the possibility of what I see as cast marks (I could be wrong) with what I think could be a good ring, based on my observation of expert opinions differing in construction methods of acceptable rings. In fact, even as I do not believe that period casting occurred, some extremely knowledgeable men here on this forum, of whose opinion I deeply respect, disagree with this very thought. Yet we can still have intelligent discussions on the subject. I would say only if you are unwilling or unable to do the same that the forum isn't for you. Some opinions are tough to hear, no doubt- but I firmly believe they have the right to be heard.

Compare rings and advert.

Great pictures man!!

nice ring gotz! and exactly like the period advert

I see the same two dots below under the bottom jaw yours and mine same location

glad i dont care about skull rings! seems hard to tell if its period or not.

For me 2 fakes from the same source. Rather different to the advert.

so both are fake? is the 2nd ring your ring gotz?

In my opinion yes, both are fakes and no, it belongs not to me.
Only the catalog with the Fitting advert is mine.

I think you know how close the drawings in the catalogs to the real rings usually are.

@ado, first of all, you should be glad if serious collectors, and here are several of them, don�t "attack" your ring(s) but TRY to safe your hard earned money FOR YOU! It is just a TRY, you for yourself can decide about your ring(s).
Imho, instead of soiling them you should at least lead a civilized discussion or -better- thank them!

Second, Gaspare did NOT say the ring is a good, period one. You have to read what exactly he has said:


Regards,

The certain ring, as odal has marked already, has several clear and typical casting marks.
Regards,

And it seems that the ring, from which the casting was done, has been enlarged by a jeweler which seems -what I can see from the pics- 1.) has not the proper material traces (as it is cast) and 2.) has lead to certain additional "borders" due to casting.
There is also something what looks like a, for this case, simple, improper "seam".
Interestingly the enlargement has been camouflaged by slanting lines.
Regards,

So, finally, if you are not a supporter of the (wrong) theorie that period rings are cast, my opinion ist that the ring shown by you is unfortunately a clearly cast, postwar fake.
Btw, I did not mention and mark the several casting pearls...
Regards,

Thanks for that input, very interesting, now I can see the lines better, myself!
Always learn something here... btw I don't remember many times -if any- that the experts here were wrong or far off, they certainly know what they're talking about!

I know it's not nice to find out that a ring you just bought is a fake, for all kinds of reasons... you sorta want to believe it's real and you look for reasons why it might be.

But 1. the long time collectors here, well, have a lot of experience, and 2. have no reason to lie to you that I could see.

But it's weird: I have seen people have what nearly amounts to a nervous breakdown online simply because their rings have been criticized...

I think if you can't handle the potential possibility that you got a phony, maybe you shouldn't post the ring?
Just my thinking.

I for one appreciate the help, support and expertise we can all earn from here.
Mark

If we take any originality ring and want to find some imperfections there will always be something we don't like or that looks suspicious.

Both rings posted with advert are fake? Well, they don't even look the same! Look at the eyes sockets look at the detail and patina on mine (i know you will say patina can be artificial)

Second, We can search all the ring forums and have very hard time finding this type of ring.

And finally, I see all the imperfections and "cast marks" circled in red on my ring but no one is showing me how original same pattern ring should look like and to indicate and compare same those red circles so that we can see the difference between the two rings.
But no one can do that because not a lot of collectors have this pattern ring in their collection, which poses another question; why don't we see more of these fakes out there?

I already received couple of messages from well known ring collectors to buy this ring, hmmm i wonder why.

To be fair. Ado doesn't post this ring for opinions. He only outed himself as the buyer.
Otherwise he should accept others opinions, that's how a community works.

Odal, with all due respect...opinions are just opinions and opinions do not prove anything. In this case (and all other cases) only images which we lack can prove something, so what we need is a photos of the accepted " original" of this same pattern ring and to compare side by side with all the yellow and red circles that have been indicated on my ring.

Because this is not common ring that we see on daily, monthly or yearly basis this is extremely rare ring and if you search this forum you will not find another ring like this posted for review. So based upon what are we posting our opinions that my ring is fake when we did not compare to the " original" example and when lot of collectors do not even have this ring in their collection.

I am asking again like i have asked before can someone please post the "Original" ring of this pattern next to mine and let's compare the differences as indicated.

And until that happens i am sorry, but my ring is Original!


Thank you
Ado

I wrote Ado,,if it wasn't a fortune I would have taken a chance on this ring. IF even just to study..
As far as the photo VS the drawing. Yes, there are small differences,,BUT. it is just a line drawing. They many times are different,,no big deal..
This pattern was made for just a short while that I could deduct. Rare and real pattern as the period ad we see,,there are others too.

And ,,casting, dots, wavy lines etc.. One time years ago here a ring was shown and fast called a cast because of 2 dots.. I wrote the guy and he brought it to the SOS,,they were just debris,,the ring was fine...

The REAL problem,,is the Tucan hallmark! [Austria if I remember correctly] , and matches the correct time period!! It is a stamp in. SO,,either someone has the real tool,,or had one made up [unlikely but has been done before'.. This ring has age to it,,would love to study it in hand.. These digi microscopes,,you can get a decent one for like $40.!,,they plug right in your PC/Laptop,,great for studys.!

Please guys,, rings get damaged a nick. Over the years and wear they get bigger and rounder etc. Rough spots,,could just be a unpolished area in die.. I'm just explaining for all rings in general. some of us are over cautious, some like to take chances.. I think all beginners should stic to good common rings first. The enamel RAD, a WestWall, a basic skull. Get them study them , get used to the quality. Also,,if your parents are older or from WW2 era, OR your grandparents and they have a lot of jewelry,,take a look at the pieces. Even IF a necklace, cufflinks etc. get a good look at the quality! or sometimes!!, the lack of it and that it is still authentic!

Just catching up on old threads here,thought I'd put my two cents in. Everyone brought up good points, the ring is definitely poorly made, and has had a hard life. There are a lot of what look like cast marks to me, but Mike brought up a valid point about die flaws/weak dies/defects during stamping. My father collected coins for many years, and die flaws happen more frequently than you may think. But I agree with Gaspare, the REAL trouble is that hallmark. It is Austrian, indicating 800 silver content and Klagenfurt make. It was put in use in the early twenties, and it is stamped in. Sure looks legit to me when compared to other examples. So either someone has the original hallmark or made a copy of one...or it was period made. Imho, that is a bit of an oddball stamp to use or copy, although it could be done. I would like to examine it better under a loupe, but personally I would take a chance if it wasn't a lot of money.

Just a little remark.
The pic with the drawing is from a german catalog.

die flaws and stamping defects can not be misinterpret with casting defects, they are way diferent. I somewhere posted here on forum examples of worn dies, cracked dies etc.

I will try to find and pin that thread, hap- I remember that! Members, if you get a chance- hap was awarded the "great thread" badge for his exposition of dies and presses- pictures and details explaining exactly how many of
Our favorite patterns were constructed. Like I said "you have to know what you're looking for"- since hapur makes rings the traditional die struck way- I always look closely at his opinion- he knows what he's looking for! No one is right all the time, but guys- everyone's opinions here have value. Skulls, the hardest, the toughest. It's probably best NOT to get bitten with the black bug of skull ring collecting! By the way, to make it all MORE difficult- cast or struck- these rings were all cut and sized and hand finished by jewelers who Tried to remove/cover up flaws of any kind- so they would present a nice piece for purchase!

Sure looks legit to me when compared to other examples. So either someone has the original hallmark or made a copy of one...or it was period made.


Where are other examples of this ring?

I have just received this ring, seller has blown up these photos i think to the limit where you are able to see every small little detail on this ring. And as i look at this ring in hand it is impossible to see writting inside the stamp or second silver mark in there but when you look at the photos here it is so full blown and zoomed to the smallest detail...very very hard for this ring to be faked reproduced, which proves my point why no one is posting any photos here or any other "fake" or "original" of this same ring example like i asked before!?

ado, I'm collecting since the 70s. At first I thought this was a fantasy pattern. But then 10 years ago or so I saw 2 period line drawings. Both interwar period or Freikorp era take your pick.
As for seeing others,,I've only seen one I thought was original and it was not for sale! Had the same hallmark by the way..

That is a perfect hallmark. Stamped in etc. SO,,either someone has an old original one,,or a new one was made or [??]

For clarification, I meant that the hallmark looked legit when compared to other known examples, IE, it doesn't look like a fake mark like some Frey examples among others. Sorry for any confusion.

Hi Gaspare , I know you mean well and i respect your knowledge and years of collecting.
Just your statement here that you have only seen one of this ring example says a lot and when i have seen this ring for sale i knew of the pattern but in the years of collecting i have never seen ring of this pattern come up for sale, the detail was there the patina was there two hallmarks looked great and there was absolutely no reason for me not to hit that "buy it now" button. I can easily return the ring and get my money back but no way, i know that i have a great and extremely rare ring in my collection now!

Thank you Gaspare on your support
Ado

happens all the time,,some will like,,some won't.. Some over cautious, some over confident.. IF it wasn't bank breaking money,,sure why not buy and study..

. IS that the box it came with??... Worth a shot, checkout/search the name in box lid!,and IF you find them,,some actually will have some old records. I found a place that still had some of its wartime hand drawn jewelry designs so you never know!!!!

Hello Gaspare, this one is NEVER a ring box. It has been either for a woman watch or a bracelet or something this large.
Regards,

Interesting!

That we will pick and choose on which rings we will find the cast marks.

I have to disagree here. So this is a known pattern that likely sat in the jeweler's display as an upgraded example (stones set in eyes) for a LONG time, probably bottom of a box for even longer. Had it been purchased (note the tag).. it would have been cut, sized, jeweler hand polished/hand finished- so the rough spots seen here would be polished out.

The Tag ring proves nothing it can easily be added to any ring, whenever.
Where this ring set for a long time is questionable as it still does not have enough patina like mine does that started this thread so it is acceptable on my part to question these spots that i have circled in red. Green area around eyes can as well be just a glue residue where someone has added black glass eyes to the ring.


I just wonder where did my ring set in order to get patina like that.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours, ado. In my honest opinion, however- odals ring is a wonderful piece, and I would certainly be proud to own it or one like it someday.

ado, I'm collecting since the 70s. At first I thought this was a fantasy pattern. But then 10 years ago or so I saw 2 period line drawings. Both interwar period or Freikorp era take your pick.
As for seeing others,,I've only seen one I thought was original and it was not for sale! Had the same hallmark by the way..



We have all heard Gaspare said that for over 40 years he tought this pattern was fantasy ring and then what happend, the ring surfaced. And then no one had ever on this forum in history posted ring like mine for review and first time ever ring like this shows up here we say its fake because someone has pointed out these same spots that i have pointed out in this ring as well, but yet this ring is good and original.

ado,,really, best to keep the apples with apples and the oranges with oranges...
IF you question Odals ring you really should point it out on its topic [if it has one]..
- yours,,well if a dot is just a piece of debris show it,,or a prior photo did not accurately show something reshoot and show etc..

Wotan,,I got this weird ring box. Slightly smaller than Ado's,,it does not have a slot for a ring,,it has like a raised wall with back open and sprung. So that if you pressed a ring over it , it would stay!..Can't get to it quickly but eventually will and post..

Not worth any comment for me.

This ring is called fake just because of someone who failed to buy and someone who gave the wrong advise to potential buyer and now this ring has to suffer here because of that reason...that is all. I can post 100 more pictures and make another 100 comments and it will not make any change because all those who said that this ring is fake will never admit that they were wrong. Yet i am receiving private messages how the ring is original.

.

Probably best not to drag the matter on and on then - You are not going to change doubters minds, they will not change yours.

Maybe try starting afresh as WAF or something [where the results will likely be about the same].

Only thing I can say, don't think the case has any connection to the ring at all, good or bad.

I will drag this on and on and as long as it takes because i am not the one who posted my ring here to be attacked by those who have never owned it, or held it in their hands! and know nothing about it!

If this ring is Fake! Why then no one can post any picture of another Fake like this and let's compare (for what i have asked now at least 10 times) where is it show me!?

If you cannot show me Fake then show me Original, but you can't do that either. As no one has it, they only have opinions which in this case are destructive and not productive!

This thread was started while the ring was for selling, so the starting thread had nothing to do with you.
Your buying of this ring has nothing to do with other peoples opinion about it.

And.....the box you got with.
Nice and maybe period, but as Wotan mentoned, no way that this is the box for the ring or a ring box at all.

You still have to learn a lot.
About this stuff we collect and how to talk with people that have no bad intensions rather want to help.

For me there is nothing more to say about this ring and the box.

You are doing a disservice to yourself and community with stubborn rants.
You post something then it is public record and open to opinion and debate - ALL OPINIONS, not just yours.
An opinion other than yours is not an attack, it is an opinion. If this ring is a solitary example with not even pics of others, that in itself would be suspect to me but rings ain't my thing so I digress - I have no opinion if it is legit or not.
Gaspares opinion carries weight, on the other hand he like everyone else is not infallible.

If you can't stand any heat and only want or will accept confirmations of your opinion, then don't post on the www would be my recommendation, go to shows for opinions. You still may get thumbs down but not likely to get so heated up in person [hopefully, anyhow].

Again, i did NOT post this ring here.

And the ring case is not being discussed here but the ring.

As much as you all have your opinions does that mean i have less right to mine just because i don't agree?

I have a lot to learn? I have posted legit request and any additional opinions are irrelevant only photos of same pattern fake or original can prove or disprove our all opinions.

So again i ask, will or can someone please add any photos of this same ring pattern be it Fake or Original ?

Thank you
Ado

And i have already proved here that my ring is NOT the same (and pointed the differences) like same pattern ring that was posted here in early posts and called fake as well (only one i might add). And I welcome others to post other photos of the same ring pattern and let's compare again.


I believe in these two photos we can clearly see the differences between the Original and a Fake. Just from these two front photo shots and if we had different photo angles of this bottom ring we would see much more differences in detail design and probably hallmarks between these two rings as well.

Just to add to Doug's comment. After following this thread I would never buy a ring. and I don't mean just this ring. period. That is what this thread does. it de legitimizes the rings.

Jim,,I know the feeling,,I wouldn't touch a dagger with a 10 ft pole! Badges/medals,,I've seen silver wound badges /GABs back in early 2000s reproduced in Warsaw [by the countries official medal/badge maker for their armed forces] that no one could tell they were fake..


Really,,most rings with a little experience you can see they are period. Have a look at the WestWall topic, or the Skull , and Patriotic ring topics. Many fine authentic examples..

Every once in a while we come across a problem like this ring. Sure,,it does display some characteristics of being a cast piece.. The real enigma is,,that hallmark. That is a stamped in, proper time period, clear hallmark! THAT is the interesting [worrisome?] part to me!!
Years ago I had a small photo of what I though was an authentic ring of this pattern. I really got to go thru a lot of old stuff to find it but I'll give it a try,,of course if I find I'll post..
Meanwhile,,anyone have what they consider a period example of this pattern??

* You did not post the ring but posted the next post, tentatively asking what people thought about it. Gaspare said he liked its chances and you spiked the football, said you own it and did a victory dance.
Are you saying you wouldn't have posted asking about it if it were up to you ? I highly doubt it, the thread would have followed the same trajectory if you were the OP or not.

* You posted the case, leaving it up for discussion - Else you could have posted it sitting on your desk and not on the case.
Items with cases tend to lend authority and value to the item, they are more than a minor accessory. Of course there are cases of legit item/case, bad item/case, good case bad item, bad case good item - Probably best not to post together unless you are pretty sure it is legit because in peoples minds, just as a good case can lend authority, a bad one can take away.

* You of course have the perfect right to say and think what you want, so long as they are within forum rules. [I myself have no special authority here BTW]
You'll forgive me but you are coming across as whiny and combative in many of your posts, and as refusing to consider any other possibility that your ebay find is a jackpot rare ring.
Not the 1st time this scenario had occurred at a collecting forum - You obviously have a vested financial interest here, no one else does. So its not abnormal for people to get touchy, but can get embarrassing for others to watch after a while.
I might add that in any collectibles market where there is a proliferation of known fakes and fantasy items, it is actually on the owner/seller to prove it is legit, not on anyone else to prove it is fake.

I think you have said in this thread that you have people messaging you saying [words to effect] that they love it and would love to own it - Perhaps they could post in open forum and state why they think it is legit ,,, And just having a good gut feeling doesn't count for much, if such it is.

First, I don't like football i prefer soccer. Thank you

After this I will not respond to comments referring to me as we are judging a ring and not judging my character as they can only lead to me getting banned from here which in eyes of some members looks like they would like that to happen at this point because apparently i dare to challenge their knowledge.

I have asked (as well as Gaspare) for photos of this same ring pattern and that is all.
As opinions will only takes us away from what we are trying to accomplish here.

And the reason why other members send me private messages instead of posting in public (which i will not named) probably means that they don't what to create any waves in the calm seas, maybe their boat is too small!

Thank you and try to enjoy your weekend
Ado

Gaspere, I remember standing in that medals shop in old town Warsaw. After seeing the long line of vendors lined up to buy medals I swore off medals. Amazing craftsmanship. And unfortunately the dagger market is full of every trick imaginable. So I will not argue with you.

I'm not judging or smearing your character.
You pointed out that you didn't start the thread, which is indeed true. I pointed out than you jumped into it with glee following Garpares semi thumbs up, and I don't blame you for that.
He is knowledgeable on rings and a good trusted guy, and he may be right. I hope more info pops up, not good form to advise other forums but you have likely run the gamut of expertise here by now - And if it comes down to back & fourth repetitive comments by the same people, no purpose served in that.

That bird was a mark from Wien Austria I believe.

Topic starting ring is for selling here:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Seltener-Totenkopfring-Kantinenring-800er-Silber-original-WK2-/122451177317?hash=item1c82a8af65:g:3H4AAOSw3ZRY9Q71

You are not correct , that is the same ring and if you looked through the sellers items for sale it is not in there. Like i said it is same ring not different ring of the same pattern...and i know for sure that i am not selling mine! (two photos side by side from italian site and thread ring, they are one and the same!)

About a month ago Gaspare and myself have asked for someone who has this pattern ring in their collection to post on here which i see no one is able to do and any other additional comments on this ring at this point are unnecessary.

I was wondering how long will it take before we start to see this skull ring example pop up on different auction sites, well it didn't take too long! (as it was not one of the more common fake ones we usually see out there) actually i never seen fake one like this on any auction site until now.
Still very bad looking but my point is that fakers are monitoring closely these forums for their inspirations.

Fakes of this rare pattern are still around for long years in different qualities. This is only a new one in a row and easy to spot. Thanks for showing here.

Just from my own experience and In my 8 years of ring collecting and daily searching different dealer and auction sites this is the first time that i am seeing this ring pattern showing up on a major auction site among other fake ring examples that we constantly are seeing out there.

Hello, its the same ring, unfortunaty broken..

A nice ring.. But I believe its postwar. Old, just not WWII old.. Probably 50s, 60s.

I've seen what I would call an authentic example of this recently. The one I saw was definitely pressed. It was at a fancy antique store in NYC. The owner said its a late 1800s Memento mori ring!!! I was discussing it with him and told him I thought it was 1920s, 1930s.. He said 'Whats the difference,,its what ever I want it to be,,am I buying it!'
He wanted a small fortune for the ring. Next time I'm in the city I'll take some photos of it...

These are good pattern rings. Just one of the harder patterns to find. But thats starting to happen to all authentic rings!

An advert from a prewar catalog. It's not exactly the same,,but close...

Ground recovered exemple just sold on WAF estand for around $350
Such a long time has past since the original was shown again on the market for sale of this Austrian marked skull ring example.

Yep that is a rare bird Ado. Thanks to you I learned so much more about it. I will be very happy to be adding this guy to my collection.

hi student 1
did you buy this skull ring off whermacht last week is this the same one pictured here that sold for 350.00 please let me know thanks the red baron

Yes but I do not have it yet.

what does the price matter.. Man,,IF I can find something I really need I go for it!! I'm happy to get 2 or 3 pieces a year!!

Austrian! Don't remember seeing the mark.. Any of you guys have a shot of the hallmark??

Relic looking as it came from the ground.. You could clean it better.. Some guys have great luck cleaning them. They use efferdent all kinds of remedies! Some work ,,and some don't...
I do a strong brushing sometimes IF I think the ring can take it.. You can clean it,,or just leave as be.......

From inside it looks like a good stamped ring. Has a nice thin band..Outside, a bit hard to see.. Lot of little 'lines' on this. Man IF you can't find a casting dot on any of them you've got a good one!

- from just these photos it looks more good than bad. When you get it in hand you should be able to 1st see if you should clean,,and 2nd inspect it for problems.... Please let us know and maybe some new shots.. The hallmark too!,,or if anyone has it now kit'd be great to see..

Here is how a really good fake skull ring of this design looks.
Now you can clearly see the difference between a fake and original that started this thread back in 2017!

The Big Difference!!!

there are definitely more than one manufacturer of this pattern.. I think Mike has a decent example too if I remember correctly..

Ado, yes the newer example you show has cast signs too. ..
The ring that started this thread is an enigma itself.. Appears to have cast marks ,,but maybe they are not.. I can say one thing with certainly the Austrian hallmark in it is perfect, stamped and correct.And as far as I know that stamp has not been copied!... So a ring to hold to for sure.... Anyone else maybe get one of these in recently they can show please do....., Thanks , G.

Addo- whose ring is it you posted? Is it on an eBay or a forum sale site? Was it purchased? Do we know the seller?

Cricket

don't know anything about it. Was clearing out some folders and found this photo.. might as well add up here.. Mike,,did you ever end up with one of these or?

Yes, that is mine. Unmarked, thin and pressed. I purchased this from Ed, I paid a high price- as everyone here in the forum knows now- and waited many months for it to arrive. (Not the sellers
fault- It just comes from halfway around the world.., ) I sent some more pictures to you G- this is not the same ring that addo is showing. That one obviously has casting balls.
If I recall correctly, G- u said my, formerly Edvards- ring here is a good original. If it is not, I will return it for a refund, as I said I paid a high price and waited a long time for it. Of course, if anyone has anything to add to the authenticity discussion of my ring, posted earlier in the discussion -please do so. This is not Monopoly money I am playing with here.

Mike,, with all rings,,or most,,there was more than one maker.. Some just bought dies from a big company, made a 100 rings or so and when the die wore or broke that was it.. Some copied and produced their own.

IF this is very thin thats a good sign.. I see where the right lower half might be from a worn die.. IF the inside displays no problematic signs what is the problem?

Authentic rings are not cheap,,,sometimes you stumble upon one as you have before and thats a blessing.. Sometimes you gotta pay. The choice is yours alone. ..

Did the ring come with that dirt build up [if thats what it is ] on the forehead? or was it cleaned off before you bought it or you cleaned it off? or it still looks like this?
And,,,does yours have a hallmark stamping in band? ,,,, and one last question,,,did your ring come in a period box? and if so any name on it?

G- mine is the one addo posted on the second page. I sent you the better pictures, those were Ed?s
Pictures. Looks more like tarnish in hand. Back is much cleaner.
It?s a very thin ring. No stamp. No period box, just the one you see it in. The other one that Austrian,
That?s Aldos ring. I think it?s austrian. I think the one I got from Ed is a good German period piece, and quite rare. Sure sometimes you pay G, I know that and over the years I have found some deals and I have paid plenty too. It?s NOT an issue of paying that I am pointing to here- it?s a matter of authenticity. I don?t mind paying well for an authentic piece, all collectors in their heart for the most part I believe feel that way (outside the constantly annoying bargain hunting and tire kicking collectors- but they usually have collections that speaks to their scrimping). What I am attempting to ascertain here on this forum is this- is the latest ring posted by ado fake? Well then who is selling it? Who is buying it? This is only meant to help EVERYONE. As far as my ring is concerned- hell NO I?m not paying a bunch of money for a fake, and if is everyone gets to hear about it. Believe THAT friends!

So which are real and which are fake? Lets name the sellers too.
And the prices as well, for all of them. That seems to be really important to guys on this thread, so why not? If you buy a Mercedes it should be a Mercedes, right? Why should this be any different?

Until or unless the day arrives when at least a plurality of collectors and hobbyists display some basic courage, honesty, and common sense- to treat others as they wish to be treated, we will continue to see interest amongst potential or new collectors continue to precipitously decline until there?s no one left except one man, greedily holding on to a pile of partially repro/partially good items until his own death.
Naming sellers and marking items must begin immediately if not sooner if anyone wants to preserve any history at all for the next generation.

Well said, Mike. I bought a lot of rings in a relatively short period years ago. I was lucky as a few big European collections came up for sale and I had cash to spare. I reckon that at least 90% are good. We (or maybe just I) don?t see collections like this for sale any more. Just the occasional ring. I do not buy SS Honour Rings because they are too expensive and too heavily faked.

Nowadays, I rarely buy a new ring. There are so many fakes, sometimes very good fakes, that I am suspicious of them all. Even my most trusted militaria dealer is starting to avoid Third Reich stuff as it has become such a jungle for fakers, frauds and thieves. And that isn?t just with rings. It?s everything!

I reckon that most of the truly authentic rings have been found and are now hiding in the collections of a few individuals, probably including several of the guys here. One thing that is great about this forum is that just about everyone seems to be bona fide - the expertise and knowledge of TR rings is amazing. The same cannot be said out some of the other fora!

Cheers,

Stephen

Much more important, why do the apostrophes in our threads here keep getting replaced with question marks?

Because the characters are being displayed in UNICODE font instead of WESTERN font

The ring in question as posted by ado is currently on sale on German eBay. Ring in question

Personally I'd say that the OPs ring is a repo / fake.
Same pattern ring up for auction on the 15th november: Even this ring has some flaws

this early pattern ring has and always will be a problem.. Many simply don't like it because it does not match the advertising. Well, the advert is a line drawing. Many times the actual ring did not look like the advert. Some adverts were never even made in to production rings. IF not enough came in to make a profit it was not made.

In-between the wars there were firms that were trying molds for jewelry. [Here is a advert for a very early era mold] . Sand cast, investment cast etc. Problems with quality, material waste, time, manpower.. That with many having a experienced die cutter on staff already by the 3rd reich they went with the already proven simplicity and quality, a die and a press..



In this topic we also have discussion on casting faults, bubbles/dots etc. This photo shows a US wartime die. Worn and put out of service. But the last few rings it made must have come out badly. Any of us [me included] would see a ring with this fault in it and we'd say old but not WW2 old, or outright fake..

the real problem with the first ring posted is.... You show these 2 hallmarks to any experienced professional jeweler and they will all say the same thing. They are authentic hallmarks.

That is the early Austrian , later Sudetengau hallmark, ,,the content also another nice stamp.. Yes we have fake hallmarks today sure. But these are proper.. When seen many saw the marks and those sharper with access to the early adverts see the ring even has the same finish as what was being offered Oxidized Silver' [blackish/tarnished]...

I would still go with,,you have this and its nice n thin, clear hallmarks, no big flaws and you want the early pieces keep it. Its got to catch your eye and you must like it... Anyone buying any military regalia to make a profit is playing a dangerous game..

Please, anyone that see's other examples feel free to add here any time....

Hi Gaspare, thank you for your knowledge! Some more pictures from the ring I posted:

I've made a comparison image. The ring I posted previous is mine, I made a bid on it. I really like the pattern. Will take more photographs of it once it arrives.

If that is the same ring that was from the recently auction it is original.
Same like the other two skull rings that got sold there.
All three rings hit the mark around $400, expensive yes but original as well.
The seam on the ring looks somewhat messed up but like i said for me it is original ring.

Hi Ado, Yes the ring was from a recent auction, together with a snake ring ( Frey & Co ) and another ring. I'm in love with this pattern, the first time I saw this style I said to myself that I had to have one ( even if it would be a well made replica ). Yeah I didn't know they were casted at first that's why I made my opinion about it being fake, but if it's casted then it's a totally different story. Your ring got some nice hallmarks, and not just the silverstamp.

One thing I've noticed among others is that the fake rings doesn't have that little extra wingmark on the backside ( check attached pictures ). (( Mikes ring seems to have that mark as well but the image has copyrights so I can't draw on it. ))

I just received my ring today, I will take some pictures of it later on today / tomorrow! But I really like it so far, it's very thin! :)

These photos are shot in macro.. and they're like 50% compressed as well.

some more..

So, at first I thought these were casted / fakes. But when I have one in my hand it's a total different story, they sure are pressed, and so thin! these images do these rings no justice in my opinion. You have to hold and feel one to know what they are. I paid a pretty penny for this ring but I'm super happy with it :)