Here are some shots of my Black Klaas Luft2:

Pic 2

Back

Pic 4

Pic 5

Pic 7

Pic 6... note white on the inside of grip

Pic 8

Last one... I hope that you like this as much as I like it!

John

WOW great dagger JohnZ I have searching to find one for my collection of Luft daggers. They are hard to find out there.
Thanks for fine pics and sharing.

If you sell it ? ship it too me

Lh 600

LH 600:

You will be waiting a long time, my friend, before I send this dagger to Norway, or anywhere else



But, stay close to Paul... he is the one who found this one for me.


Takk,

John

The story goes that these aren't really funeral daggers and the grips were once painted white. There does not appear to be 'any' evidence of white paint residue on this one , also, most examples I have seen have the very dark finish to the rest of the dagger with just the silver double twist wire contrasting, as if its meant to look all black and sombre.
Not trying to prove or disprove anything here, just a comment.

Beautiful dagger you have there John, nice score.

Nolan

Mr Nolan, if you look at the closeups of the grip, it looks to me like the grip was originally white and was painted black.

You can see the white grip on the inside portion.

I will take pictures of my regular Klaas tomorrow and post for comparison.

John

John,this grip was WHITE painted BLACK ?? Usually it's the other way around with BLACK grip painted WHITE.You may have something totally different.

As ususal, great stuff John!

Its a stunning dagger regardless

Ed:

That is how I interpret the white color on the inside of the grip...why would anyone paint the inside of a grip?

If it is a paint job, it is a great one... you cannot see any sign of it on the exterior.

John

John the only point I was making is when we get into the black grip like a 1st R.R. it always comes up a black grip with white paint.I know this is a Luft and that's why I said you may have something different .(in support of the black grip theory)

Ed:

We are not in disagreement. I wonder if other black Klaas Lufts exhibit the same grip colors.

Like you stated, I was also of the opinion that the black grip should have been of black material. Like the other black Klaases the we know. I was surprised when I took this dagger apart to see the whit material on the inside. I do believe that this dagger is original and not messed with.

Anyone out there who could show us pictures of his?

Paul, as the resident Klaas expert, what is your opinion?

John

Here are some pictures of my 'regular' Klaas Luft2. There are some significant differences between it and the the black one.

pic 2

pic 3

pic 4

pic 5

pic 6

pic 7

pic 8.

Note the tang to the blade difference. And the scabbard screws are different from the black one.

Hi John
very intresting thread im attaching a few pictures of my klass with white grip which may help you , regards steve

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Steve:

Your white Klaas looks a lot more like my black one than my orange gripped one.

The fittings are all darkened the same way (can it only be patina or is it more). When you look at the pommel, the crossguard and the ferrule of the yellow one, it is much different, while the black and white ones look the same.

The scabbard on your white one looks like the scabbard on my black one and unlike the orange one. Look at the scabbard screws.

Very interesting.

Paul Hogle are you out there? What is your opinion on these?

John

John
That was my thoughts as well , paul will know my one

quote:

Originally posted by JohnZ:
pic 8.

Note the tang to the blade difference. And the scabbard screws are different from the black one.

Monday morning Dagger, top scabbard band .

Nolan

John, what a fantastic "black" Luft dagger.
I do not own one but would certainly like to eventually get one though.<
I must also compliment you on your great pictures, you've certainly done your lessons.

John, I have a very soft spot for your orange gripped Klaas. The JLL, (Jerry Lee Lewis) hand chased crossguard is very desirable. These are very distinctive. There is a thread somewhere out there, well maybe.... on this style crossguard. It is unique to Klaas and I think a few original Voo's examples showed up.

Here are a few for your viewing pleasure.

Thank you, Paul and Pat.

I studied at the feet of two masters. Both of you have shown me what good pictures can do. And I think that I have learned from you.

And thank you all for looking and commenting.

John

Hello John,

Here are several photos of mine for comparison. Well, it is almost a "funeral" dagger. I guess my time isn't up yet since it still has about half of its paint. It keeps flaking off here and there though. Maybe one of these days, if I live long enough, I'll have a "funeral" dagger.

My dagger has the same darkened finish on all of the fittings just like yours. The ferrule is a little bit brighter than the rest but notice how the bottom edge has been ground down so that it perfectly meets the rounded top of the crossguard. It is nicely hand fitted here so it is definitely original to the dagger.

Also notice how the tang has been ground down to accept the grip. The inside of the grip hasn't been altered any at all. The grip only fits one way, it will not fit if I try to turn it to the other side. Also, the crossguard fits snug to the blade as well and cannot be removed. I've tried and it won't budge.

The grip on my dagger is also very "bulbous" compared to most other 2nd Luft grips. I've included a photo with this grip next to a grip on one of my 2nd Lufts by Carl Eickhorn. Notice how voluptous the Klaas grip is compared to the Eickhorn grip.

I think that covers most of the notable items about this dagger.

Here are the photos.

Thanks, Doug

Paul and Doug:

Great daggers there.

On Doug's dagger, I note that the grip is black and has been painted. Same on Paul's. However, on my black grip, I see white material on the inside. Take a look at the three shots of the inside of the grip.

What can account for this? White grip painted black? If that is the case, then it was done before the wire was applied, right?

Interesting hobby isn't it?

Regards,

John

quote:

Originally posted by JohnZ:
Paul and Doug:

Great daggers there.

On Doug's dagger, I note that the grip is black and has been painted. Same on Paul's. However, on my black grip, I see white material on the inside. Take a look at the three shots of the inside of the grip.

What can account for this? White grip painted black? If that is the case, then it was done before the wire was applied, right?

Interesting hobby isn't it?

Regards,

John

Easily solved by just taking a tiny scrape from under the pommel or ferrule area, just a tiny scrape from an edge, I bet my pension that grip is Black throughout.

Nolan

Nolan/Paul:

I will do that and get back to you.

Maybe I am just misreading the pictures.

John

If you do a look at the "Luft2 - a Crappy Zeitler" -thread you can compare my ZEITLER. Obviously parts baught at the KLAAS firm, nearly identically to JohnZ�s KLAAS with yellow grip.
Regards,

quote:

Originally posted by JohnZ:
Ed:

That is how I interpret the white color on the inside of the grip...why would anyone paint the inside of a grip?

If it is a paint job, it is a great one... you cannot see any sign of it on the exterior.

John

Did some knows the history of the Luft Funeral daggers ? Are they made as "Funeral daggers" or did they made them with other types of grip and repaint them ?

Lh 600

Nice dagger John Z

Enjoying the show LH600 the funeral dagger is just a term made up by collectors Klaas for some unknown reason had some black grips that they used up in their production. They all have remnants of paint on them which indicates they where not issued in black. Why did Klaas have some Black grips? Guess that will remain one of the unanswered questions of the hobby.

quote:

WW2-Collector

Hi
Many thanks for the info about this type of daggers

Lh 600

Spot the odd one out >

This was posted by Denny, many moons back and was taken at the wedding of Eric Hartmann. I would love to see the uncropped original if anybody has it?.

There is some debate in the collecting community as to if they all were originally painted white or yellow/orange. Some hold that quantities of these where sold with black grips.

That photo has been thrown around for ages, surprised no-one ever spotted that dark/black grip before??? Could a grip have darkened so much during the period or is it indeed Black??
Whatever! I would like one, I love 2nd Lufts.

Nolan

Well Guys:

I took a sharp knife to the inside of my black grip and found that I could scrape off the whit stuff on the inside. The grip is solid black...

The white stuff could be caked on grease or hardened glue, it is hard to tell except for the fact that it was caked on pretty hard.

So much for jumping to conclusions and trying to outguess years and years of knowledge about these daggers

Thank you all for your great comments and sharing of information on these neat daggers.

John

Concerning the well known photograph: Imo this prooves nothing because, if that certain dagger would have had a black grip it also would have a black blade(!). Grip AND blade in the photograph are distinctly different to the daggers in the photograph. Imo this is simply caused by any shadow.
Regards,

I also have a black Klaas, it can be viewed here.

It is by far the coolest 2nd Luft I've seen.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/m/9250015255

I just looked at the handle of mine and there are a couple of very tiny scratches that show a lighter color underneath.

Eric:

Yours is a funeral dagger... for sure.

Cool!

John