Hi,

its a long time since I posted on this forum but somthing occurred this week that made me think back a few years to a heated post.

My favourite daggers are the Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, especially those with the wonderful pumpkin coloured grips. I remember a very heated thread a few years ago about whether the coloured grips were as manufactured or discoloured over time. Some collectors thought they were all white at issue and turned yellow/orange with the imperfections of the early plastics over time.

Was this issue ever resolved satisfactorily as I have seen war time coloured images of daggers during the war with yellow coloured grips?

Thanks, I look forward to comments.

I do believe it was proven to be another
BS story from an "Authority" trying to be
"He who knows ALL"

I collect 2nd lufts by grip color,go figure,..
anyways,have a black grip "funeral" dagger
and was told by Jason B.,that Robt.KLASS scored
some black grips,painted them white,and eventually these grips wore back down to the black finish.Interesting tidbit..
Joe

Hello,....This subject realy "P"s me off!...I have broken grips with orange outside and white in the middle? I have seen yellow grips that are white in the middle? I have heard so many inteligent arguments, both for the theory that they were all issued white and and have developed "colour" over time, and other perfectly reasonable arguments that they were offered in various colour's from the start!...The fact is I still don't know the conclusive answer to all of this. And I'm still very very angry about it!!! P.S I am however tempted to believe that they all started life in white?.... Cheers!

Howard,
You and me both, but the 300+ copies of period photos I have ammassed of army daggers in wear leads me to believe the latter also.

For people who are in the (know) There is at least one catalog in color out there showing colored grips. This says it all.. Regards: James

Put us out of our misery then!

SMF Catalog...

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...573/m/8440046444/p/2

Been discussed before, I was not convinced then and still not convinced now.

I got a shot of that SMF catalog I need to get it off my other computer I will see if I can post it for you guys tomorrow

Hi,

for those that are interested.

I was watching the History channel in the UK and there is a series of programmes called Hitlers Women. I was watching the one called Hitlers Women : Eva Braun and about 3/4 the way through the documentary there is a colour movie section showing Eva Braun talking to a german officer and he is wearing an Army dagger which obviously has a Yellow grip. The section is about 30 seconds long. The colours are clear and unambiguous.

I am looking to down load the documentary but if anyone has this series then have a look and try to capture the image and up load it.

Be interesting if anyone can confirm my observation.

Ho,hum,here we go again....
Yes there is ,No there ain,t!!!
Seiler (yank in UK)

Oh that old chestnut again, it ran for ages and got quite heated at times, TW always maintained that these grips were originally either white or light (lemon) yellow, I can imagine a white material turning to orange over a period of time but not going through a light yellow stage. I have an unissued 2nd luft with a beautiful lemon yellow grip which I personally believe has never changed colour, that is JMO. Bottom line on this is that to support the 'everything was once white' theory, the protaginists of this suggest that the attention to detail and uniformity exhibited during the TR would not have allowed deviation from a standard, fine, however no one has ever been able to explain the existence of the glass and natural amber grips which have 'always' been orange. I dont think it will ever be resolved to 'everyones' satisfaction and again JMO it doesn't really matter.

Nolan

I hope that I don�t regret becoming re-involved. As far as the genesis for the grip color discussion is concerned, I don�t know if it was an original idea, or was borrowed from antique radio collectors that already had a well established body of knowledge.

First link (specific attention is requested to especially the bottom of the 5th paragraph from the top):
Cast Resin Antique Radios

Irrespective of where the information came from, the basic premise was correct and the cast phenolic resin grips do change color, especially in the presence of ultraviolet light.

Second link showing some related color variations:
Examples

As far as the �glass� and �natural amber� grips are concerned I don�t remember who it was: But one of the �specialist collectors� explained that the �glass� grips were not made of what is basically sand - but plastic. And the �amber grips� were not actually amber the naturally occurring material, but a man-made synthetic.

Where the theory partially failed (IMO) was especially in not addressing the urea formaldehyde types of materials. And in more detail some of the other/alternate materials types. FP

I have two types of orange 'glass' grips, one on a Heer the other on a 2nd Luft. The first is very hard and brittle and translucent, typical frozen orange juice type, the one on the Luft is of a softer material and nice and shiny but not translucent. When Craig was heavily involved in establishing his theory I sent this grip to him to inspect as it was a bit of a puzzle, I allowed Craig to remove some material from under the pommel with a craft knife and he concluded what I already suspected that this was not a trolon grip as the colour was throughout the grip, the material was also soft enough to slice a sliver using a fine blade, Craig concluded it was a 'glass' type grip, but as Frogprince points out it's more likely to be some kind of plastic, whatever it is it's period, its orange, and its a solid colour all through.

Nolan

I hope this subject doesn't get raised from the dead.WE lost a couple of good people on this subject it became so heated.

This subject really did pizz me off when it all began in 2002 or late 2001. we lost more than a few good folks, but hey they left over the color of a grip on an old knife. read; color of a grip on and old knife!!!! I was beat and re-beat to death. know what I dont care what color they were. even had a few who tested grips for exposure to ulta violet light and other sources...So my vote is that they were white and orangish of some sort. I think its good thread as long as everyone stays cool. Who had the red x leader with the white grip again???
I think it was FogHorn LegHorn who said
"Know'in the answer aint gonna do me no good anyhow"
Bret Van Sant

Hi, I'm certainly no expert (only addicted 4 yrs)but I read this stuff as I'm waitin 4 info on another subject and I do remember c'in that Eva Braun thing on History Channel. 4 what it's worth I'm certain that Brit is correct. Being an unconcerned observer I'd have 2 agree they did make them in other than white! Maybe it's just that most officers chose white. I know there seems 2 b more white handles out there. Norm

Hi,

I have posted pictures from the Eva Braun doucmentary on another thread about this subject, for reference I have added on this thread.

Question answered??

close up of the dagger grip.

It took many weeks waiting for it to come on TV again!!!

A beauty Peter,Well caught.Now perhaps this puppy can be put to sleep.I,m fed up of it.
Seiler (yank in UK)