Full Rohm SA - Opinions - Your new forums

Hey everyone,

I just saw this on sale here today. I am asking for opinions merely out of interest since I cannot afford this one nor do I collect these. However, do you think this could be the real deal?

Here's are the link and pictures:

http://www.aukro.cz/item497821291_prodam_orig_dyku_sa_s...ta_roma.html#gallery

JAN

I'm not comfortable with this one. But better straight-on photos of the etch might change my mind.

Low angle "glamor shots" seldom give me confidence when I'm looking to purchase. If the seller is looking for top money then I should not expect to see indirect angles and shadows.

Jan....
After talking with some of my experienced colleages off line we have some long standing concerns regarding many of the items you seem to be putting out here for opinion (testing).
First those two Totenkopf rings are fake in the opinion of persons whom opinion I trust in these items.
Now you present a dagger who's owner resides in Chomutov, Czech Republic. A city of less than 50,000 people. Known by a very small circle of collectors as the "Solingen" of the Czech Repro daggers. (Yes,I don't like this one either but I will not tell you why.

)
For the past year I have seen nothing but fakes put up by you saying "What do you guys think?" or "Look what a friend of mine dug up."
And it seems like the the product of your friends are almost always a fake.
Which you follow up a question of why some one thinks it is bad and to point out the details.
People are talking and it may be time for you to either buy some of these gems or pick up your chips and try a different game cause the table is getting cold.
But I for one will no longer continue on helping on what I personally consider the improvement of your "friends" product.
Not only that but I will continue to be it your face like that ugly fake ground-dug Totenkopf ring which is the 2nd fake example your "friend" had dug up in the same field! HA!

A new post from German Daggers Dot Com > German Daggers Dot Com > The Honor Ring Forum!

Author Topic: HH ring - today discovered
Jan CZ
Posted 04 December 2008 15:49
quote:
Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):

quote:
Originally posted by Josias:
I agree that the Himmler signature looks very good compared to almost all fakes I've seen. Still, it's not typical of the 1940's style Himmler engraving, and appears too small. The thicker, beveled engraving you see here looks more like the 1934 style. The notion that seeing the recipient's name, which is ALREADY known, is nonsense, because a faker can see many different examples of original rings on this forum and WA forum. My original ring has a capital "K" also. I't would be nice to see if it's the same style. What's the sense of posting something, and then hiding part of it? MORE PICS!!!!!

Is this a second time a "friend" of yours have found a Tote ring? And I recall that you showed another "ground-found" tote ring also leaving out the name of the owner.
I recall there were questions about that ring too. Forum members asking for more photos but your "friend" didn't want to show. So was it perhaps it had the same name as this ring? Same friend perhaps found 2 tote rings!? Our two different "friends" who both don't want to show the owners name?

Regards,
-serge-

Serge, this is really second ring he found. First one was discussed here: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/74097573/m...050048054#2050048054
He found it at the same field!
Ok, I am gonna resize other pics, and post them.

Jan

I also urge my fellow collectors to look at Jan's post on WAF and see the material that is fronted by him there. It is IMO all shady. That is where the evidence leads me. Other opinions my vary. I have stated mine.

Regards,
-serge-

I don't know anything about what this guy has posted previously but I do know I don't like the dagger.

Gailen David

quote:
Originally posted by RevYJ:

Low angle "glamor shots" seldom give me confidence when I'm looking to purchase. If the seller is looking for top money then I should not expect to see indirect angles and shadows.

Boy you must hate the pictures on my site!!!

Gailen David

quote:
Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
Jan....
After talking with some of my experienced colleages off line we have some long standing concerns regarding many of the items you seem to be putting out here for opinion (testing).
First those two Totenkopf rings are fake in the opinion of persons whom opinion I trust in these items.
Now you present a dagger who's owner resides in Chomutov, Czech Republic. A city of less than 50,000 people. Known by a very small circle of collectors as the "Solingen" of the Czech Repro daggers. (Yes,I don't like this one either but I will not tell you why. )
For the past year I have seen nothing but fakes put up by you saying "What do you guys think?" or "Look what a friend of mine dug up."
And it seems like the the product of your friends are almost always a fake.
Which you follow up a question of why some one thinks it is bad and to point out the details.
People are talking and it may be time for you to either buy some of these gems or pick up your chips and try a different game cause the table is getting cold.
But I for one will no longer continue on helping on what I personally consider the improvement of your "friends" product.
Not only that but I will continue to be it your face like that ugly fake ground-dug Totenkopf ring which is the 2nd fake example your "friend" had dug up in the same field! HA!

A new post from German Daggers Dot Com > German Daggers Dot Com > The Honor Ring Forum!

Author Topic: HH ring - today discovered
Jan CZ
Posted 04 December 2008 15:49
quote:
Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):

quote:
Originally posted by Josias:
I agree that the Himmler signature looks very good compared to almost all fakes I've seen. Still, it's not typical of the 1940's style Himmler engraving, and appears too small. The thicker, beveled engraving you see here looks more like the 1934 style. The notion that seeing the recipient's name, which is ALREADY known, is nonsense, because a faker can see many different examples of original rings on this forum and WA forum. My original ring has a capital "K" also. I't would be nice to see if it's the same style. What's the sense of posting something, and then hiding part of it? MORE PICS!!!!!

Is this a second time a "friend" of yours have found a Tote ring? And I recall that you showed another "ground-found" tote ring also leaving out the name of the owner.
I recall there were questions about that ring too. Forum members asking for more photos but your "friend" didn't want to show. So was it perhaps it had the same name as this ring? Same friend perhaps found 2 tote rings!? Our two different "friends" who both don't want to show the owners name?

Regards,
-serge-

Serge, this is really second ring he found. First one was discussed here: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/74097573/m...050048054#2050048054
He found it at the same field!
Ok, I am gonna resize other pics, and post them.

Jan

I also urge my fellow collectors to look at Jan's post on WAF and see the material that is fronted by him there. It is IMO all shady. That is where the evidence leads me. Other opinions my vary. I have stated mine.

Regards,
-serge-

Serge (aka Wagner): I know I'm old but do you think you can teach me to write neat letters like you before I die? Probably not. Oh Also, is there really a Santa Clause???

Gailen David

Gailen, For you to come in here now means I have misjudged this dagger. Therefore I stand corrected. - serge-

Serge: I don't understand? I don't like the dagger and I thought you felt the same way? Please explain??

Gailen

Gailen, My misunderstanding. I thought you had liked it so I bowed to your academic knowledge of these.
So I don't have to stay corrected today on this one?

-serge-

Serge: Your pretty good on these. Over the years I only can remember one that we disagreed on..... and who knows you could have been right on that one.

Gailen David

Ah-shucks Gailen...Thanks.
But there nobody who knows these Rohm dedications better than you. And you have known them from the days (correct me if I'm wrong) of the Great Western Gun Show...When it was in the city of Commerce across from the Tire factory.

-serge-

Whats this?The "Mutual Appreciation Society
Weekend"?????
SEiler

Yeah! It's the Christmas season. May all your Rohms be real! Ho! Ho! Ho!

Gailen

"Rohm Rohm on the Range...where the real and the Mickey Mouse play!!!!!!!!!"

Merry Xmas to you Mon Ami
Seiler

THE SAME CHAP APPEARS TO BE SEEKING OPINIONS ON ETCHED BAYONETS ALSO???

Serge,

I have to admit that I am newbie in this hobby. However and STRONGLY SO! , I have to say that you are confusing me with JAN CZ - that's not me. Yes, we are both from the Czech Republic, but my nick is jancz3rt and I do not know JAN CZ. Mind you, Jan is one of the most commonly seen names here in the Czech Republic.

I am not going to beg for an apology but I feel insulted as you seem to be throwing me into one box. I can tell you that I have made many friends here on GDC and on WAF. I do not want to name them because they could now suffer as a result of being associated with me, the "spy and suspicious guy." I am in it purely for the hobby and BECAUSE I WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING! I would not ask for opinions on things that I would know are legitimate for 100%. Reference books can tell me a lot but fellow collectors know much more than that - Von Ryan and others for example know much more than they have in their reference books.

Now, please do some research before putting blame on me or suggesting that I am doing this to help some "friends" or that some of my "friends" have found something. If you carefully go through my posts, you will see that I have welcomed opinions and subjective feelings on the pieces I wanted opinions on - mind you I did not post the Totenkopf ring threads...

I am in no way going to leave this alone as I feel insulted. I consider myself an honest person. I am in this for the hobby alone. There is probably no way for me to convince you I guess but do rest assured that many people know me in the real light and not in the light you are portraying me.

Now, I think I have laid out my cards. I love collecting TR dress bayonets and will continue doing so. I just feel bad that someone thinks that I am in this to help get information for fakers and so on.

I honestly think that I deserve an apology but will live on without it. I needed to let you guys know. You can decide by yourselves.

Thank you for reading this.

P.S.:

quote:
Originally posted by falstaff2k:
THE SAME CHAP APPEARS TO BE SEEKING OPINIONS ON ETCHED BAYONETS ALSO???

Yes, that is me because indeed I collect dress bayonets (etched and standard - see my collection in my signature)! Oh my, it seems like I have just been dug a grave for no just reason.

Jan

(not Jan CZ or anyone else)

Ok. OK! It wasn't you who posted on that totenkopf thread but the other JanCZ. -

OK, Guys!! Listen up! I meant JanCZ not jancz3rt.

Geez what is the odds of our limited membership these days that there would be 2 JanCZ's??

For getting you mixed up with the other "JanCZ" with the doubious "Ground-found" tote rings - of course I apologize for that. It's a honest mistake.

Now since your new you should know that most of us who have been in this hobby are a suspicious bunch. If your not...you won't last long.
However at the same time if you continue posting questions about items that keep proving the be fake over and over again some people here are going to be thinking one of two things.
1. That you don't do your own due dilligence, ie, buy some books.
2. Or your association with constant fakes has an alterior motive. (Even if it doesn't).

My suggestion to you as a new collector is to stay away from CZ auction sites like the one with the Bad Rohm SA above, or Militaria 3-2-1.

No reason to leave this fasinating hobby.

Regards,
-serge-

Hi Serge,

Apology accepted and please note that it is nothing personal. I really do not wish to be shown in a bad light and will do much more homework before I post something in the future. I was hoping that it would be quite clear that JanCZ is a different person given the topics of his posts and of course his date of registration. Hell, you can even go as far as checking the IP address.

Ok now, on a more serious note, I am afraid we do not have as many possibilities when purchasing items here in the Czech Republic - the US is a different story. I have purchased from Wittmann before and believe me that I would prefer to do so. However, it is quite pricey and when you add shipping to it, it is a lot more than I am able to generally pay.

Now, I will look forward to posting here in the future and hope we can put this "incident" behind us and focus on the hobby.

Thanks a lot for your understanding, much appreciated.

P.S.: I should also state that I do not have many reference books. I am going to work on improving that too

I think my safest bet is to focus purely on dress bayonets which I know most about and have been collecting for 2 years.

JAN

Well said! Would have taken me an hour to write that. And that's before a rewrite.

Gailen David

Jan: Specialization is really smart. Focus were your knowledge is. To many guys collect all over the place. They may be pretty good in most area, if they lasted long enough. And if they lasted, they weren't super knowledgable in one area. Always a good idea to be smarter then the crook who's trying to cheat you, Don't you think.

Also, pay the extra money on postage to get a piece that's guaranteed by knowledgable dealers. You'll make money down the road.

That's my story and I'm sticken to it.

Gaieln David

Lets have a BIG old fashion group hug

I prefer to sing 'Kumbaya'.

John

The neatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people that he did not exist!

quote:
Originally posted by JohnZ:
I prefer to sing 'Kumbaya'.

John

quote:
Originally posted by falstaff2k:
The neatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people that he did not exist!

Guys, I guess there is no point in me trying to convince you. I know I am right and you have every right to think or sing what you want. I will not take that away from you. Maybe I am the devil after all :-) Now on a more serious note, I will not take this personally from now on and continue with my activities as I had done in the past. I will do more research before posting however.

JAN

Jan: I think the guys are just having some fun.

Gailen

Jan,
That's a very nice collection of bayo's and other stuff you have and well done for only two years of collecting. Your command of the English language is to be commended.

Hi I have to admit that I prefer it when we display this kind of commaraderie...and an infusion of humour mixed with some knowledge...reminds me of the good ole days (insert icon shedding a tear and sniffling)...now if we can just infuse some of this good natured spirit into the dreaded SS black death threads we will have it...cheers, Ryan

We all long for the good ole days....

Ok ok

It's fine. I look forward to learning new things here in the future.

JAN

quote:
Ok. OK! It wasn't you who posted on that totenkopf thread but the other JanCZ. -

OK, Guys!! Listen up! I meant JanCZ not jancz3rt.
Geez what is the odds of our limited membership these days that there would be 2 JanCZ's??

Hello
Jan ZC - Yes there is such Man, it is good that I have not bought from him Ring - 2 year ago, its Fake ring!

For getting you mixed up with the other "JanCZ" with the doubious "Ground-found" tote rings - of course I apologize for that. It's a honest mistake.

Now since your new you should know that most of us who have been in this hobby are a suspicious bunch. If your not...you won't last long.
However at the same time if you continue posting questions about items that keep proving the be fake over and over again some people here are going to be thinking one of two things.
1. That you don't do your own due dilligence, ie, buy some books.
2. Or your association with constant fakes has an alterior motive. (Even if it doesn't).

My suggestion to you as a new collector is to stay away from CZ auction sites like the one with the Bad Rohm SA above, or Militaria 3-2-1.

No reason to leave this fasinating hobby.

Regards,

Jan ZC - Yes there is such Man, it is good that I have not bought from him(it) Ring - 2 year ago, its Fake ring!

Seems to me that someone should change their name don't you think?

Gailen David

Maybe you could change it to "JanCZnotthecrook" or "JanCZthenewimprovedmodel."

Gailen David

Maybe ...
This man digs in Czechia, but sells Fake Ring, he spoke me that found Honnor Ring (but Ring Fake) also he say - he found Antipartizanen and Petsamo ring but ring Fake

In case you didn't know, it was an old Czechia custom to bury fake items.

Gailen David

quote:
In case you didn't know, it was an old Czechia custom to bury fake items.

Gailen David

O.O.O. Yes I then have understood, but I did not know, I trusted ! Now I nothing buy in Czechia!
I know very much was sold from Czechia - SS Camo Jaket (from local film-studio Statniy Film ) but it is all Fake, Sahariana, and SS Camo Jaket 44 and more more .....

This is great!

Gailen David