Photo 1

Photos of this dagger will be posted soon by a friendly reader. I am grateful for his assistance.

I have been sent 18 images. They have all been resized and some have been cropped as needed. I will refrain from posting everything as I think some of the photos are repetitious, but if you need further details I'll see what I can do. Fasten your seatbelts, here we go.

More.

Blah

Blah blah

Blah blah blah

That's all for now folks.

here are the photos to posted of your dagger it shows quite bad staining on the blade and a very badly damaged grip which is missing the ss button so to say only 1/5th was repaired is silly
was a genuine button used in the restoration or a copy?

nickn
I was certain you would be the first to respond as you are typically the one who likes to throw his worthless two cents in.
Measure the grip in the photo. The damaged area is LESS THAN 1/5th - Yes or No?
Absolutely period correct Rune - but don't believe me - call Wittmann.
What you call stain is the absolutely original aging of the blade before I ever touched it with soft, non abrasive metal polish as recommended on this site.
There is no stain - what the hell are you talking about?
Why haven't you posted photos of the blade since I cleaned it. The photos you show are of the blade untouched for over 50 years.
You are well aware that photos angles and lighting often display marks and lines far worse than they actually are.

But I guess you know more than Wittmann.

for 2 years now you have been asking this forum "how much is my dagger worth"
you have said in the past that you have been offered $19,000 my advice is take the money
as it will never be anything other then a heavily restored example
i have high lighted the stains

i do not know more then wittmann
but i do know this is not a $15,000 dagger

With this dagger one is paying for the blade and in this case, the blade in question is not yet worth $15,000 unless you can sell it for that price. I would think that a fair market value on a blade in this condition would be between $6,500 and $8000.00. I will wait to be corrected of course.cheers, Ryan

I had an offer through Mr. Wittmann (on consignment) last year for $18K. I would have netted less after his commission of course. I have also had three dealers tell me they would have no problem getting $15K for it. I do not know who the buyer(s) were / are but the numbers I have related to you are accurate. I have no reason to fabricate this information.
This was last year. I did not sell it at that time thinking it would increase in value further as the SAs did at that time.
Yes, I am sure some believe I should have "jumped" at the $18K offer. But it cost me nothing to say, "No thank you" and simply hold onto it.
Ryan, though I disagree with your value estimate range for the reason(s) stated above, I appreciate the fair way you express your opinion. And cheers to you!

The photos that nickn2 has posted and circled with repeated claims of "stains" accurately depict the condition of the blade over a year ago. However, there has never been any stain on the blade. Any amateur can readily see the spider oxidation that occurs with time on metal. The small amount of dirt and rust in this spidering wiped away with non abrasive polish (lightly wiped with the cross grain). What remains is a grayish and much lighter spidering effect that I am certain most readers of this forum have commonly seen.
I find it educational to read and ask questions rather than assume and make false statements.

i am sorry they are rust stains likely from finger prints
i think you calling them spider rust is worse then me saying stains as spider rusts eat into the metal
i am sure most of the stains on your blade could be removed without harm

Didn't Gailen sell a nice SS full Rohm with vertical hanger last year for $15,000?

-serge-

nickn2,
You are correct in that most appear to be from finger prints - likely mine and my brothers when we were kids horsing around with dad's WWII stuff. The blade has cleaned up nicely by hand. If I could take decent photos (you probably saw how blurry they were on the ebay listing) I think you'd be surprise at how good it looks. Frankly, I was afraid to touch it for over a year until I learned the proper polish to use and the way to polish a cross grain blade.

$18,000 for THAT dagger? Somebody is smokin' rope.

I honestly can't see any reason why that one should pass the $7,000 mark and I think I am being generous at that.

I have been doing this a looong time and that one is rough and, in my personal opinion and with NO intention to cause ill feelings, it will never see that $18,000 unless it is proven to be Himmler's own dagger.

This must be a joke thread? The one I own is on pages 70-71 of Whittmann's SS book. It must be now worth $35,000+++ as it is the ONLY one to be traced to a DKiG winner. Maybe I am rich and don't realize it? What am I missing here?

Mark

You're looking at photos of a dagger that had not even been wiped with a cloth for 60 years. Now hand polished with paperwork from dad's 201 file, hand inspected by TW, personal dedication in the SS book I purchased from him referencing the dagger, original grip repaired (and with decent photos that show 90% bluing on the scabbard)the piece looks very nice.
Looking at the old photos posted here I would agree it would not draw that kind of money. But even at that time I was offered $10K for it.
As Dave H. often says - "I'd really need to do a hands on inspection". And that is exactly what TW did.

-

Mark, I don't think your missing a thing.

I think "FullRohmowner" missed out on 18K! And IMO will not come close to be repeated again.

-serge-

Sorry but I'm having real trouble accepting this, in the last 12 months I've had the opportunity to purchase at least 3 full SS Rohms in excellent condition - with blades at least as good as this example, fitted with perfect handles (either no chips or very minimal) and good clean scabbards...none was priced above �8,500..that is $17,000...they were priced from �6,000 (usd 12,000) and up...and condition wise they were all far superior to the example shown here.

If I owned this piece and was offered usd 10,000 I'd have sold straight off and danced all the way to the bank, to be offered usd 18,000 would be a dream - perhaps now is the time for me to market my collection ??

And before you ask, I have been collecting for 20 years, so I do have a vague idea of what I'm talking about.

No disrespect but I feel a dose of reality is called for here.

Jonathan

It's no longer necessary for me to chime in to restate history and repeat what I have already posted. I must admit it does bother me that some would think I am making this up. But in the end I guess it doesn't really matter. If you do not care to believe me - that is your choice.

Sometimes the "Dream" comes by perhaps once. And all one has to do is just say OK and take it.
But if you let it slip away...your a fool and you got what's coming to ya!

And from the sounds of this thread I will just say that it looks to me that "FullRohmOwner" will be just that..a "FullRohmOwner" for a long time to come.

-serge-

Well serge,
At one time they were worth only a couple of thousand dollars, then five, then ten, then fifteen and more..........do you think the value will just stop going up because serge believes they will?
Only a real fool would believe that.

I think we all wish you well with that dagger. The only point is that if you were ever offered $18,000 for it and didn't take it...it will be a very very long time before you see that money again. That seems to be the general opinion anyway.

If you do well with it, the rest of us who also like (and own) the SS Full Rohm's will do well also. So, in the end..we are supportive of you getting as much as you can for your dagger. I would like to see some pics of it's current restored condition just to see how it came out.

Mark

I wish you well with your dagger, no matter whether you choose to keep it or sell it as it is ultimately yours (no dagger envy here) and one never really knows what it might bring until it is sold. Ebay works wonders sometimes. All that we "experienced" collectors can offer is a fair sense of market value, the price paid by those collectors having knowledge in the collecting field. As stated in my opinion this is at most a $6000 dagger as it appears in the photos. As a restored piece with a dramatically repaired handle it might push closer to the $10,000 mark to a buyer that doesn't mind the restoration work.Will it ever increase to $18,000?? who knows, never say never. I didn't think that I would see the day when $200 red cross EMs would bring $800 and higher or when SA would hit $1000 let alone $1500. In 1995 they were $250 for maker marked and $150 for plated RZM.I must concur with the opinions expressed that an offer of $15,000 or $18,000 was an extremely fair/generous/glorious offer for this dagger. I would have accepted it but that is me. You might have a personal attachment to the dagger and you might not covet the money/profit as I would. I have seen men turn down good monetary offers for cars sitting in their fields only to have them rust away or get towed to the wreckers. I was always at a loss to figure out those chaps but to each his own. We can think what we want, believe you or not but I don't think there is any reason to fault you or criticize your integrity. Your choice is yours alone. Good luck to you no matter what. cheers, Ryan Tom is a decent guy but he is far from the guru that many make him out to be. He is not without his "hobby" flaws believe me cheers, Ryan

P.S. we all have hobby flaws and I would also like to see pics of the dagger's present condition as we are basing our posts on the pics provided. cheers, Ryan

Ryan,
I appreciate your post. I must say I never thought I would be put down by so many members on this forum for simply relating my experience with four very reputable dealers.
I guess I have not sold the dagger for three reasons - It was dad's and he's gone now, it's a rare piece of history and in hopes of the value going higher.
As far as providing photos of the dagger now, you probably saw the ebay photos - that should tell you about my skill at photography. In fact, the old photos on this post show the scabbard as almost brown when in fact it is 98% blue! And lastly, I think I've had enough of my "fellow members" (with some exceptions) playing pocket-pool and commenting on it.
I learn lessons the hard way so my dagger and I will lay low for awhile.
Thanks again to you though Ryan - cheers.

Well ...there goes "FullRohmOwner"....Bye.

I guess he doesn't feel the a e-ban buyer should have gotten better photos on his $30,000 "Buy it Now" Rohm. ( You had to see them to believe it)
I guess we will not see the "after" photos either,
And I guess he's had enough of us playing "pocket pool" with him.
And I guess this is "best for all concerned.

I wish him well...no hard feelings.

-serge-

With my years of experience in selling rare pieces, what you must understand is that the more they are worth, the more condition plays a part in the desirability and the price.
Unfortunately, those who can afford the rare and unusual demand condition. It is evident that it is not present here.
This fact, coupled with the fact that MOST of the Himmler's and Roehm's in collections and on the market are at least excellent to near mint, the chance of this dagger selling, especially at the level you are indicating that you are going to offer it at, is, IMO, a pipe dream.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
PS: The last Himmler I sold in below excellent condition about five years ago brought $6500 and it wasn't damaged. Not to say that your Roehm won't bring more, but not anywhere near the $18,000 you were offered initially IMO.

Fullrohmowner.Its your dagger and I do not care if you drive nails with it.Ask anything you want for it.

I have had enough of the insults going back and forth. Please take them elsewhere.

Dave

Posted 06 May 2008 20:58
I had an offer through Mr. Wittmann (on consignment) last year for $18K. I would have netted less after his commission of course. I have also had three dealers tell me they would have no problem getting $15K for it. I do not know who the buyer(s) were / are but the numbers I have related to you are accurate. I have no reason to fabricate this information.


I am not trying to give him a hard time, but FullRohmOwner posted the above statement.

As I re-read it, it only says that Tom offered to take it "(on consignment) last year for $18K".

That does not mean that he offered to buy it for $18K. Just that if that's what he wants to get for it, Tom would try to sell it on consignment for that amount.

Also, "three dealers tell me they would have no problem getting $15K for it".

They did not offer to buy it either.

It appears that no one ever really offered to buy it.
They just discussed the estimated value with FullRohmOwner.

There is a BIG difference between "it should be worth", and "I will pay"!

Just ask Patrice about trade-in values of cars!

Chief

What I would suggest is that FuRoOw - Michael Manguno* - buy a premium membership for $32.95 and list it for sale here. Start high if you want, maybe $45K or more and see what it gets as a restored Rohm dagger. Post lots of pictures. They are rare so value is is in the eyes of the purchaser.

Dave

* That is the name in your public email address

*******************

Edited for insults

Even funnier to read comments by you iv - money was sent to Vern a couple of days ago.

Vern has been out of town since Friday, so I have activated your Premium Membership.

Many Thanks Dave!

So now we may see if FullRohmOwner gets the ridiculous price he expects for that piece of junk ....

Gordon

.

Floridaguyz1,
Although I may list the dagger here in the future, I have no intention of putting my dagger on this site at this time. I became a premium member because I've learned alot here and felt I owed a little in return. However, reading comments from people like you certainly make me questiion my decision.

quote:

Originally posted by ivbaust:
*******************

Edited for insults

Oooohhhh, I would love now to comment this ... but I don�t.

Can't say I blame "FullRohm" for not putting it for sale since this group of collectors are aware of the daggers prior condition and will only consider a purchase of an item like that if it is priced as a "Heavily Restored" dagger.
I concur with Ron Weinand comment.

But perhaps "FullRohm" can show us a "restored" photo or two?
I would like to see how that grip turned out. Looked like a gonner to me.

-serge-

Why would one bothered to restore the existing grip. May be much easier to buy a good grip and fit it to the existing crossguards. I am sure, Vern can easily do so. Paint the scabbard and polish the blade a bit. Or buy a new scabbard and fit the blade in it. The dagger would look 100% better.

Oleg 1: It is obvious you haven't handled very many SS Himmler's or Roehm's as they are not the same as regular SS M33 Daggers. The fittings have a slightly higher nickel content, the scabbard's bluing is a little more quality and the grip's finish is a little finer than the standard M33 SS Dagger.
Anyone who deals in honor daggers can tell the difference after looking at a few over time.
JMO,
Ron Weinand

Ron, so the grip of Roehm would be different from regular M33? What about SA Roehm and non Roehm?
I know that Himmlers are different but Roehms I am not sure. If they are different, why would SAs stay the same except for the Roehms inscription?

Eickhorn SS Himmler's and SS Roehm's had grips that were finished differently from the standard dagger. For some reason, the finish was harder and the top layer of the grip was a little more brittle and they tended to flake the top layer off, mainly near the crossguards.
I don't believe it was the grip material, but rather the black dye or the final finishing that caused this difference in the honor daggers.
This was not evident on the SAs, however.
JMO,
Ron Weinand

When I need a good laugh now I just read this thread...not funny really, it is embarrassing and a real shame. Again time to grow up.

Ron is right. There are differences between Eick Rohm, Himmler Vs. Eick SS M33.

Then regarding the grip repair, does that now mean that it's a half Honor and half standard grip?

-serge-

Its a frankenstein Rohm now!

"To properly conserve the integrity of the SS dagger, it is always best to repair the original damaged grip, no matter what the effort."
reference; "Exploring The Dress Daggers and Swords of the German SS" by Thomas T. Wittmann.

I have to ask a question ,Ok it's a dagger that needed work but still original ,how many of us would have thrown it in to a trash pile ??Right now that is what most of the people are doing.Restored ,original it is what it is.I know I would have keep it.If he sells it's his right and to ask any price.At times I DON'T wonder why the membership has declined so much.JMO

I think some are being a bit harsh here. Although blunt opinions can sting a bit, they often are made with good intentions (yes, I know the old "road to hell" saw). Certainly, the owner has the perogative to ask what he wants for the dagger, but I think some posts were trying to place a realistic value on it in order to assist the owner. The value is simply what it will bring. Like the owner, others have their opinions of where it should be priced. I believe it is worth considerably less than the owner does, but, if he can get anywhere near what he thinks it's worth, more power to him. You can always come down on the price, if desired. Grips, especially on earlier daggers can usually be identified to a given maker. Personally, I would restore the grip or replace it with one from the same maker (no easy task finding one, as a rule). This is considered "heresy" by some, but most collectors would do the same. A simple matter of choice. Different strokes, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by mongobongo:
Its a frankenstein Rohm now!

Yes Grumpy, this member is definately trying to assist the owner.

quote:

Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
Then regarding the grip repair, does that now mean that it's a half Honor and half standard grip?

-serge-

And another very helpful post.

quote:

Originally posted by ivbaust:
*******************

Edited for insults

Here's another post that I'm sure was helpful to the owner.

quote:

Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
Sometimes the "Dream" comes by perhaps once. And all one has to do is just say OK and take it.
But if you let it slip away...your a fool and you got what's coming to ya!

And from the sounds of this thread I will just say that it looks to me that "FullRohmOwner" will be just that..a "FullRohmOwner" for a long time to come.

-serge-

And still another helpful post.

quote:

Originally posted by Floridaguyz1:
So now we may see if FullRohmOwner gets the ridiculous price he expects for that piece of junk ....

Gordon

And more helpful posting from a GDC member.

quote:

Originally posted by mongobongo:
Its a frankenstein Rohm now!

Hey mongobongo,
Got anymore genuine fake SS leather trenchcoats
for sale?

I would like to suggest that a moderator closes this thread and deletes it. Neither the replies of the GDC members nor yours, FullRohmOwner, add any value to the dagger collecting community.

FullRohmOwner, either sell your dagger and list it in the sales section (good luck for the 18k ) ... or keep it in your collection.

quote:

Yes Grumpy, this member is definately trying to assist the owner.

Hey Dave Hohaus, what about deleting this reply because of insult?

... edited by author himself

quote:

Originally posted by ivbaust:

quote:

Originally posted by ivbaust:
*******************

Edited for insults

Oooohhhh, I would love now to comment this ... but I don�t.

You're right iv - these kind of quotes by those who commented add nothing to this thread!

I agree. Thread closed.

Dave