Probably normal shrinkage IMO just need to take it down and check it is all numbered correctly then you will see if the handle is a replacement as they are numbered on these.

Mongo I think Railgun is pointing out the grip being over the crossguard not the gap.

Ed its not that bad, I have seen them from vets far worse than this. It needs a hands on but its not that bad IMO. I think we get far to paranoid about this kind of stuff, a lot of them did have a tiny step or gap in the fitting, someones probably had it to bits and put the crossguards round the wrong way or something.

Look at the step on this 36, aquired directly from the SS officer who is still alive and a mint untouched example. We seem to remember they are a collection of parts, I agree you need to look out for this stuff but its not always a dead cert.

This is an early one as well! a dealer said to me its the best one he has ever seen and its nice to know they made them like that!.

and another

Hi guys it is a GOOD high leader's dagger....scabbard might have been recovered but if it was it apparently was well done...one would need it in hand to see if the leather goes beneath the fittings etc...too much dialogue it is a good piece!!! No red flags that I can see at all....no need to beat the horse any further on this one cheers, Ryan

Railgun88: How many SA Honor Chained Daggers have you had in your hands? Not to say that this dagger doesn't need to be examined in person, but after 52 years in this hobby and having looked at more than a few of these Honor SAs and owned a few, I can see no real red flags from the photos of this one.
Ron Weinand

I have yet to see an SA Honor dagger with a perfect fit.
For some unexplained reasons, the fit on the SA Honor leader were never really perfect.

Hi again Guys,

As Ed has pointed out, I am NOT talking about the gap. A gap could be caused by normal Shrinkage, I am talking about the Step. I would think you wouldn't see too many that continue to GROW after they are put together. OK, 'fess up! Which one of you guys own this thing and have it up on this auction?

Before the Air fills with the screams of overly Righteous Indignation! I was Just Kidding!!

Yes Ron I have never owned one or handled one or seen one for that matter but I do own several beautiful early SA daggers and every one of them has an impeccable fit on the grip to crossguards �just dumfounds me that a dagger of this magnitude has a crappy fit like this � can someone show an early Eickhorn SA with a crappy fit like this?

If you think this is bad, look at an HJ Leader or a Feldherrnhalle. No, these arent' swiss watches.

Ron, The only one I have any knowledge of is the one I own. On it, The blade is NOT Original, but everything else is! and the fit of grip to crossguards is VERY Nearly Perfect! RG88

SOLD FOR 19 500$ plus auction fee I think 17% from the buyer.

Ron, Being around this stuff Almost as long as you have. I did not say that it was impossible that this was good. I was just pointing out what I considered would be a RED Flag. As to how many I have handled over the years, Not many (3-5). That is over and above the one I own Now. And I don't really remember ANY of them having That bad an overhang on the grip fitting, including mine. I would probably recall that!
RG88

Well it must have been OK and the releathering AND the grip fit wouldn't have been a problem with me

This SA High Leader was sold to the collector that had his items sold at this auction by Joe Pankowski some years ago.
He remembers the dagger and it is original with releathering.
Ron Weinand

Well, OK! But Ron, Tell me. At the risk of getting yelled at, But...Would you list something like that? "it is original with releathering." I am much happier with mine now! It is Original with a reproduction Blade and Crossguards". Sorry Man, Had to say it!! RG88

Please! The man was told the piece was re-leathered, as many SA Honor pieces are (this is common place with this particular dagger, as well as HJ Leader Daggers). Also, the price reflects the re-leathering, but this is much better than leaving the dagger sans leather.
IF you are willing to pay more for an original leather piece and are able to find one, so much the better.
They are raher rare you know.
Ron Weinand

Ron, I think my REAL Problem with it is that that Dagger, Like it is, sold for close to 20K!! Here is Mine! and I would not think of asking even Half that for it, if I chose to sell it. It has Problems, Admittedly, but come on 20K!!
Which one do you think would make a nicer display? Given their respective Problems, you have to admit that is all either one is good for. Just My Humble Opinion! RG88































RG88

Oh, I forgot! and Mine would even go with the Case!!

BTW-THIS IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED, IN ANY WAY, AS AN OFFER TO SELL, TRADE, OR OTHERWISE DISPOSE OF THIS ITEM! SO DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, DAVE

How about a close up of the TM on your dagger?

Sure Ron, Here you go! BTW, My last comments were not directed at you, or really anyone in particular. Just a request for some Opinions. RG88

RG88:

Do not take this as a criticism, but I was under the impression that Honor SAs, like SSs and NSKKs, were all Eickhorns.

Very interesting.

John

With all respect, the crossguards do not not have a design that is accepted as authentic for the period. The "Luneschloss" blade is a well-known postwar copy, probably of "artificial" damascus, rather than the real thing. "Maidenhair" true damascus is the norm for authentic blades. Period daggers of this type were produced only by "Eickhorn."

Hey railgun:
Where does the line form as I'd like to get some serious money for this one!!
I think I've got an Atwood COA* for it somewhere!
*No! That's NOT a Certificate of Authenticity it's a Certificate of Audasity which he certainly had.
Jim

I'll even throw in the genuine post war cufftitle with it!!
Jim

Railgun, no disrespect, but if you think this SA Honor of yours is real, I am afraid you have been railroaded. Bad blade, bad center band, bad chain and crossguards. The case is not period either. JMO,
Ron Weinand

HELLLLLLO,,Everybody who is throwing comments needs to go back and READ the whole thread!!! I NEVER contended that mine is Real!! I just said it is not so far removed from the one originally posted. When you Reupholster a dagger it is NO LONGER Original! ie. SEE ABOVE " I feel better about mine now, it is an Original with a reproduction blade and Crossguards" Don't any of you people READ? I guess my comments were completely over the heads of most of you! Irony?????? Sarcasm????

RG88

Sure (WE) read.. A few posters missed what you had said before. But the later poster Ron W. is correct about the other problems that you do not list..... Please, I don't understand how you find so much high end reproduction stuff be it fez, luft General hats, Navy honor dagger, and SA high leaders (although there is alot out there). Yes through the forum people try to educate you being very honest and truthful. But you need to also buy books and many of them.. Johnson's Ron W. , Wittmann's Manfred Sachse (damascus Steel book) these are basic.... One picture can save you thousands!!
Now it is true your SA has a bad blade and cross guards but it does not stop there. You ask for input here and with visor hats on another thread and it seems collectors here do give you answers. I know it is not always what you want to here but I hope it saves you money...
It is amazing what prices of some daggers bring ,Yes even if the scabbard has been restored... as the dagger that started this thread... I remember I almost bought a Early SA honor (type with no chain) from Bob Moses It was $20,000.00 about 12- 14 years ago.. And that was a good price for that dagger. I had too many irons in the fire.. Regards: James

Hi James, It seems you answered your own question! The stuff you see me post for Opinions is very high end stuff. The fact is That I do Read, and have an extensive collection of Books dating back to the early sixties, when I got into this stuff! Although I did not have the Damascus book you reffered to, but it is on the way. You won't find me asking questions about common daggers or whatever. A lot of the stuff I throw up on here is stuff that many of the newer collectors have never seen,"in the flesh". I truly believe that this forum could be used for educational purposes, if it was allowed. But it seems I have to take a bunch of flak every time I post something. But I am pretty thick skinned and willing to take it. Virtually all of the stuff I post WILL be questionable. The reason I post them is not only to get information for myself, since most of it is so rare that I may have only seen a few examples, and the reference material is kind of sketchy about most of them. I am sure a lot of the newbies have Never seen any! I truly value and appreciate the level of expertise of some of you guys and I feel that it should be used to educate NOT just the guys who are always posting on here, but the multitude of people who lurk and never post. They are here to learn what they can about this stuff. As to where I get all this High end Repro stuff, Most is not technically repro, but parts pieces. I know a lot of Old Timers who picked up this stuff back in the heyday when the only pieces that were worth any REAL money were the very high end items which made it profitable for guys like Atwood, and others which won't be named, to produce them. But now, when a newbie could be clipped for Tens of Thousands of dollars by one. I feel like they should be seen and discussed. Don't you? So please just take my postings for what they are worth and try to answer my questions and I would greatly appreciate it, as I am sure lots of others out there, we don't know about, will. I will put up my soapbox now.

James, I DO appreciate your answer. It is not my intention to seem abrasive, to anyone, in some of my comments, but sometimes it seems that it is impossible to get a response without "kicking the cage" around here a little bit. And, for the most part, it IS always EXACTLY what I want to hear

Many Thanks RG88

HI John Z, Just wanted to say that your understanding is absolutely correct. ALL Real High Leader blades were Made by Eickhorn. I posted the picture of the maker mark under the impression that it was already understood that this blade was Bogus! RG88

Just a short note. Can you please tell me where you are buying the (English) Manfred Sachse Book (Damascus Steel) Regards: James

Jim M. Just so you know! That is NOT an Atwood Fake. It is an Early Marco reproduction from Spain, around the early seventies. They were available in the boxes as a Diplomatic, SS, SA, and a Goring "honor" dagger. They did not come with the Artificial Damascus Blade except for the "Goring" dagger. The blade on yours is one of the ones sold by Rex Reddick at about the same time period. RG88

James, I found one on E-bay. Ray

Jim M..I had to go dig around in my pile a little bit. But here is the scabbard that would have come with the Marco fake instead of the one you have.







RG88

Ray, Don't forget to order the book now... Regards: James

Could be RG88:
But I've seen two period SS High Leader daggers over the years with the same scabbard as the one that came with mine.
Jim

Hello guys; just only to say I'm one of the people who 'lurks' in here and I'm very happy for having people like you giving us this acumulated over the years knowledge, so THANKS A LOT for this incredible thread. I have also a Marto (not Marco RR88) SS Himmler dagger and is a beauty! it als hasmany details that doesn't match with the original but I don't care, it's juas a fake and is OK, regards

Hey Nacho:
How about posting some pictures.
Jim

Nacho, you are correct on the Marto, not Marco, Thanks for the correction! Also, MANY Thanks for the confirmation on my efforts! It is nice to hear that I don't take the pummeling just to see my thoughts in print. I KNEW there were a lot of guys out there watching! RG88

Jim M. "I've seen two period SS High Leader daggers over the years with the same scabbard as the one that came with mine."
Jim, you are correct if you are talking about PERIOD daggers, I was only talking about the Marto Repros. RG88

Thanks for the clarification RG. I don't think mine is a Marto and it appears that some of the parts are genuine.
Jim

To RRGG: I'm happy to hear this from you, every single time I get into this forum I learn something new, for me is like a big live book about Blankwaffen, I enjoy it a lot!
For Jim: Here are a couple of photos of my Marto Himmler dagger, if you compare with an original almost everything is wrong: the crossguards, the maker's mark, the entire scabbard...but I like it a lot, it's a high qualty item, even has a good crossgraining. After all I never will be able to has a real one so, why not. Also this repro daggers by Marto are very well priced here in Spain (selled as repros, not originals) they are in the 250-400� depending of the model and the condition, they are not easy to find, in fact I never aw other like mine on sell. Best regards.

2

Nice comes free when you buy twelve of Hitlers toe nails LOL