I recently purchased this dagger. {On line} My question is the lacquer period applied and the fit of the grip to the lower crossguard.
I don't think this grip is orginal to this dagger.
Your thoughts

Mario

Mario, my opinion ,re-lacquered. can see it running down from the top.
BUT, I don't like photo #3, looks like bare "new" wood next to the lower guard. or trimmed to fit on the sides ?
might be me / or the photos but.... don't look right on this "little part".jeff h.

Hey Mario,

Like Jeff, I dont like the unlackerd part touching the lower crossguard? Age WOULD have made that look diferent if the wood is bare/not protected. Its a nice grip, lovely colour, I think, original, but not to the crossguard, the stepping is off? Siegert writes about stepping, check the book on that, or google for Suhlerstuffe, but, only rarely on later RZM daggers I saw such misfit? I think Paul Lakeside trading says somewhere that its not precision sciense? So, its not IMpossible, your daggers matching? But, I think, the grip, is not original to it. I wouldnt know about lacker itself. It was wartime done sometimes. Some makers are known for it. Others will need to update you on that. Is the fit of the blade to the lower guard good? I think it is?

Sincerely,
KR

I agree with opinions above. The grip looks periode done, but the wood is too white near crossguard, if the adjustment was period done some dirt was accumulated there. Seems to me this grip was from another dagger and recently adopted here, I'm not sure about lacquer. Look for lacquer residues over button or eagle, is very difficult to re-lacquer a grip without touch these itens.

Looks to me like a force fit to the lower crossguard.After seventy plus years you would not see new wood unless it is a recent cut.If you can return it for a refund. Regards, forton

Thanks for all your input. I took some more photo's, I would agree that the grip was cut to fit the crossguards, the wood does not look aged at all, One would think that there would be lacquer on this area. The Lacquer is not on the SA button or eagle the lacgure job is nice but I would not expect to see excessive build up at the top buy the SA button.{How photo can hide this}
I guess we will see what the seller has to say on e-stand.

Cheers

Mario

Hi Mario,

Is that letters scrathed in the grip or damage? Anyhow, I read here that Heller used lackuer on the grips. Lacquer is mentioned here too for early SAs. Maker Hoster uses laquer on a marinedagger here, so, maybe, that maker uses laquer on SAs too?

Goodluck on e-stand,
KR

No doubts this grip was recently adopted to these crossguards, observing the region around the tang hole we can see the red pigment applied to the wood before lacquer. May be this lacquer was original to the grip, the lateral adjusts was made after pigment and lacquer was applied. Very interesting the letters on the grip, seems to me PH or FH?

i agree. either the cross guards are new to the dagger or the grip.

Thanks all for the input. Ricardo and Karin the grip does not have any lettering, They are marks I guess when held into place to make.
Well I am going to post pictures on the fourm where it was purchased, As the comment was made from who I purchased it from we don't know what we are talking about.
See where this goes


Prost

Mario

Hey Mario,

Just a quick 1, to compare your bare/filed grip to 2 grips that are (also) real/period and NOT filed/bare/forced-to-fit, see here. Good luck!

Enjoy,
KR

Thanks for the info Karin.
Keep you posted.

Mario

As already mentioned on WAF. The crossguards belong to a Suhl dagger, but the grip doesn�t. The grip was adapted to fit the crossguards.

Parts dagger with modern unprofessional work on grip

Well after many reviews and talking with the indivdual, He still thinks it orginal.
He claims he got it from the orginal owner. But this is true, its been apart, As close review before I took it apart found the tag nut marked.
Well I was past the seven day terms, As I was out of the country before reviewing.
So I own a parts dagger.

Still collecting SA Daggers

Mario

So who is this worthless dealer that won't stand behind his stuff. 7-day return or not it should have more than 7 days for originality if he is a legitimate dealer/seller. If not you need to be aware of the products from the less known people and make darn sure right away and mostly before you purchase it as to whether something is original or not. Because unlike the big guys who sell some crap too but they will usually guarantee it for life on originality. Some of the little unknowns will not. You should be weary of them.

You should also start attending many shows because and I don't want to sound rude and I am sorry if I come off a little rude here but the SA you show should have never been bought it has a horrible step down to the crossguard. By attending shows and handling many SA dagger you would notice this right away. Buy some books so you don't blow money on crap that is impossible to get rid of. I think the only way you'd recoup money on this is parting it out on eBay or something. I guess you chalk this up as an expensive lesson? Hope you can get it returned. I would pester the guy and let everyone know who sold this crap.

Adam,

Mario was at the MAX last year doing just what you suggested.

Dave

Awesome, I suppose that's a start. Although there is still the glaring fact that if you had handled enough of these daggers you wouldn't have put yourself in a position to buy blatantly obvious parts pieces. Now I say blatantly obvious because I guarantee with the skills some restoration people have that there is restored parts daggers floating around that are impossible to tell from an original. If someone says they can tell then they are lying. The general rule is you better be able to catch the ones like this whose presents are pervasive in this hobby. If you don't catch these you need to handle more and read. As you probably know, just one of these areas (shows or books) is probably not enough. It also helps to pull real stuff out of the woodwork. To see examples that you are mostly certain have not been touched. Because even these you can't be 100% sure. Since nothing has a certified chain of custody with it since 1945. :P I am telling you this stuff so you don't waste your money. Some dealers will even try to give you all sorts of fuzzy warm feeling with all their certificates, awards, etc, etc., but none of those replace the knowledge you only get from handling piece. If a certificate ever gives you all the comfort you need than I would invest all that money you gotta have in something more profitable. Experience, experience and for yourself. That is the key.

Thanks for the input Adam. If you go to Wehrmach Era forum under daggers you will find out how the seller is.
You hit the nail on the head, Knowlege is power.
And I can wait to attend this years Max Show.
One thing I learned more pictures.
Well I keep this dagger as reminder.

Mario

Mario this ain't the first time you have been burnt suggest you keep your wallet in your pocket and start reading the books before any other expensive mistakes occur

AJ Thanks for your opinion. Once before from a major dealer he took it back. And this one, Which the seller offered to take back for half price. {Not} I think we all have made a mistake or two.
I guess the leason here is buy In hand not on the web. And don't trust anyone?
You are correct Books, Books, Books.
You get the theory and then you need to get the particle {Buy}

Mario,

You can buy from the net, but you have to know the seller.

Also, you can name the dealer who sold you this one as he will not take it back.


Dave

Dave

After much debate with this seller, he offered to refund 1/2 my money, Which I said go............. And I would keep it as a paper weight.
The seller is on Wehmacht Awards Fourm user name: Rove looks like this is not the first time from the input that came to light on that fourm.

Mario

Dave is absolutely right Lakeside JR Tom and Tom Ian Dale andrew gates all good guy sorry to the others I haven't mention but you know who you are as do we
Tony

Tony: You are rigt there are some very good people in this hobby I know some of them personal and they have been helpful.
I guess there are some sellers out there to stay clear of and I guess I will learn this, and ask more questions.

Mario