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I took the pictures with a camera phone so they are not the best, but this is a "field upgrade 36"??.

Normally I would say no its not its a parts dagger but think about the following.

It is all a 33 early herdar and its a belter, the nicest blade I have ever seen on an SS. Text book N/S fittings perfect fitting parts annodised scabbard etc.

But then it has a 36 chain assembly attached (and all correctly marked etc) but just the centre ramp and the chain is then attached to the N/S top scabbard fitting or the original 33?. Perfect workmanship and all looks period.

Now if it were anything other than period why would you take a 100% correct early herder in mint condition and solder bits on and put a later centre ramp on? Surely you would do it on a not so desireable piece?

Now has anyone else seen anything like this?
What do you think?

Make sure to take those horrible labels off the scabbard before commiting to buy as I bet they will leave an indelible mark in the anodising which would be a shame but seriously depreciate the daggers value even though they are on the reverse of the scabbard IMO

M36 field upgrate in 1942 Kursk Russia in a Tiger I.

What you have one? if so please post some pictures

I am still thinking about buying this any more opinions?

quote:

Originally posted by Robert H.:
M36 field upgrate in 1942 Kursk Russia in a Tiger I.

Hi Robert, The term Field Upgrade suggests that a standard factory dagger has been added to.Not just in a field or a tank ?.Chains are asked for in editions of der swartskopft Why might this be If they were not for fitting onto 33 pattern daggers?.

Robert. No need : )
Also you can e-mail me about that tolz title it might be ok.

You can surmize anything you want but it will always be a parts dagger.Who knows why or what was done to that dagger in the past 72 years.Maybe the chain was added to make a $2000.00 dagger an $8000.00 dagger makes sence to me.It is hard to see from the blurred pictures but how do you know the chain and center ramp were added on.Or an early SS dagger was not put in an original 36 scabbard ?

Bunter is NOT exactly an Expert!
Seiler

Seiler

Many of us from the UK buy a lot of stuff of Bunter. He normally has a wide choice of stock and is greatly trusted with considerable experience.

I think the debate on this is down to experience generally. We all know that Chained NSKKs are seen as genuine field upgrades. I have one of those and no one would doubt it is being authentic.

Now opinion is (from this forum previously) that chained field upgraded SS daggers do also exist.

So has anyone ever seen one first hand? or does anyone own one?. Perhaps just because one has not been in a book does not mean they are all wrong?.

Field upgrades did exist but if I were buying a chained SS dagger I would save my money for a textbook example that way no questions asked and you would sleep well.

Hi,What constitutes an expert?.As you well know I trade 7 days each week and have provide the U.K collecting community with of daggers .
Expertise is attained over time through handeling and close observation.Having examined this item at first hand I feel placed to offer a valued jugement.In my opinion a faker would have plated the chain if a deception was intended.The lacquer beneath the center mount was virtually untouched.The hits from the steel chain to the lacquer and nickle were consistent with the dagger being worn. regards Bunnter

quote:

Originally posted by Seiler:
Bunter is NOT exactly an Expert!
Seiler

Thanxs Dave can i put you on my Buddies list? BUNNTER p.s sold the
TENO mans with strap and knot Today �3,000
ss+sa yesterday �4,150.
You are Not exactly aware of who knows what.

quote:

Originally posted by zorro:
You can surmize anything you want but it will always be a parts dagger.Who knows why or what was done to that dagger in the past 72 years.Maybe the chain was added to make a $2000.00 dagger an $8000.00 dagger makes sence to me.It is hard to see from the blurred pictures but how do you know the chain and center ramp were added on.Or an early SS dagger was not put in an original 36 scabbard ?

Hi zorro ,This was once a standard nickle mounted herder 33 Dagger and scabbard ,It has been added to with steel center ramp and chain(now rusty)The commercial value of the componant parts has not greatly incresed now they are united.A faker would know That the chain would have looked at home on a redily avaliable rzm scabbard.Equally the mint 33 would have been snapped up in its original form for big bucks.If you ever get the oppotunity to handle it you may arrive at the same opinion as me.The dagger fell victim to the fasion of the time.regards Bunnter

Bunter,My question still remains.How do you know that the chain and center mount was an addition and it is not an original M36 scabbard with an early dagger addition.It has a type 1 chain that is alway platted steel and sometimes with nickel scabbard fittings.I also do not see any low quality workmanship that shows it was not done by a factory.You also mention that it should be with a RZM type dagger to be correct,that is not the case,type 1 was used early on.So in a nutshell what makes it an added chain to a early scabbard and dagger.

If that is an "added" chain, then it was not simply the center fitting and chain that was added. The upper scabbard fitting would also have to be new. The upper fitting of the M1933 scabbard does not have that that special attachment point.

Dave

Guys probably better to move to this thread on this piece as the details and pictures are far better.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/m/6190053755

Good idea. I will close this one so everyone go to the link above.

Dave