I've always had an interest in SS daggers that are numbered. Coupled with the SS Dienstalterlist, they provide an opportunity to put a history with an artifact.
Attached are pics of some of the numbered examples I've accumulated.

It's interesting that two of the examples are only 1 digit apart and that they are both Klaas manufacture and are Roman Numeral l marked.

There is no credit given to who owns the daggers. If posting the pictures offends any one, I apologize.

11963

19786

25824

31387

38875

70093

106460

109550

114983

139452

139453

183906

269247

TEX ..... What a neat assemblage of Numbered SS Daggers!

The different locations & the total disregard for the I, II, III markings is always interesting.

Having the 'ID Numbers' gives us the unique opportunity to have a chance to look into the past, with the various SS Researchers who do such a great job. Txs, Dave/dblmed

6185

230807

I have 54555 on an Eickhorn ground Rohm stamped on underside of lower crossguard will get a photo to you in due course

38875 is mine. It's a named,numbered ground Rohm Boker that Ross Kellbaugh researched for me. He was able to put together a wonderful set of documents including three pictures,one with him in his SS uniform. I owned it several years before the owner was identified and still have it.

Jim

Hi All:

Daggers 230 807 and 114 983 shown here can be identified. I still excited when I get a hit even though I am approaching almost 100 of them.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

What an excellent thread.

I have the following, but I guess the owners probably know the recipients already.

3,863
6,185
25,824
114,983

If they haven't, then get in touch I will supply you with the names

Best wishes

Raymond

"What an excellent thread.I have the following, but I guess the owners probably know the recipients already.

3,863
6,185
25,824
114,983

If they haven't, then get in touch I will supply you with the names

Best wishes
Raymond"


Raymond-

I assume you are offering that information for free, as well. Kudos to you, my friend


Rob

Ross found the owner on this Rohm Boker.

-serge-

Here's my serialized Herder, #109,892

Here is one of mine

Hi,9th Nov.
Nice assemblage.
Could you tell me number /maker of SS Zivil pin please??
Cheers
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Wow! 9th Nov, that is a super grouping you have there. Are we to assume that all those items belonged to the same SS officer?

Here is a Boker that Mr. McDivitt did a file for me.
When you can place a name to a dagger it really is great. Great Thread!

-serge-

Nice one there Serge.
Paperwork shows AGAIN,the SS Zivilpin Number
is NOT the the Owners SS Number as so many
"bang on" about.
Cheers.(Seiler Yank in UK)

I have "Boker" No.5118.
Nice big fat file with pics of Standartenfuhrer
owner from J.P.Moore
Cheers
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Raymond-

I assume you are offering that information for free, as well. Kudos to you, my friend


Rob[/QUOTE]

Sorry, yes of course. If I am able the access the information then it is pleasure to re-tie the threads of history.

Raymond

The service provided is not free. When I inquired,

I was told ....."My regular fee would be $400 each (Primary Owner Documentation research package is$225 and Advanced Research Package is $175)." ...

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Seiler:
Nice one there Serge.
Paperwork shows AGAIN,the SS Zivilpin Number
is NOT the the Owners SS Number as so many
"bang on" about.
Cheers.(Seiler Yank in UK)

I thought this myth had already been destroyed. There are the odd example of the SS-Zivilabzeichen matching the SS number, though these are the exception rather than the rule.

Raymond

Hi All:

This is the first numbered SS dagger I purchased and use as my avatar. It's a bit unusual with the number on the front. I have come within one digit of identifying the SS Mann 81 852. The reverse of this is illustrated in TW's Exploring the Dress Daggers and Swords of the German SS on p. 189 since it also has the SS number and standarte number (16) stamped on the back of the scabbard.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

There are still people out there who think
the SSZA No,s are Membership numbers ,and NO the myth has not been consigned to the bin.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Hi

Well I debunk the SS-ZA myth whenever I am asked (which is quite a lot).

Getting back to the SS numbers, I have the following names from the ones that were posted.

3,863 - Keppels, Hubert
6,185 - Dachwald, Johann
25,824 - Brauer, Erich
114,983 - Martin, Josef

Raymond

Thanks Seiler.
I wasn't aware that there was a "controversy" regarding Zivilpin number "match".
Maybe because the samples I had/have never matched.
Thanks for bringing this issue up. Maybe Ross, Bernie or some of our other "SS number" colleagues can comment on this issue here.
Trying to learn more.

-serge-

Hi Serge

There is not really a great deal of controversy with SS civilian pin numbers.

It is a question that I am asked as collectors see a number and make an assumption that it was the recipients SS number. There was also an article some years ago in The Military Advisor that supported this.

It is a fact that the number on the back of the pin is the issue number and not the SS number. Out of the many thousands of numbers I have seen, I can only think of a handful where the issue number has matched the recipients SS number

Hope this helps

Raymond

Thanks Raymond. -serge-

Hi All:

I have to concur with Raymond. Attached is a typical SS service filecard on which the SS and ZA numbers are always listed. I have seen lots of these, and amongst them these numbers have been different. I have also come across documents with the Mann's SS number & ZA numbers listed separately and none of them matched. I can't help but wonder about where the master file for this information is.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Hi Again:

Since this started out as a serial numbered SS dagger topic, here is the numbered SS dagger from my collection for the SS Mann with SS No. 7101 whose personnel card I posted.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Has anyone come up with any criteria for determining what is an original stamping of these numbers and what could be a post war stamping (depth? Style? uniform patina?) This would be useful also for SA daggers. Has anyone come across a piece that was clearly stamped with numbers post-period with a fraudulent aim?

In my opinion , I think there is not a set rule or criteria for stamping for SS daggers. That is why with my daggers try to leave them as is with the patinia on them to avoid the ( suspect conclusion of being fake) .

Thanks Joe Semen

In an apparent break of tradition, there appears to have been no set regulation to "where" and what size of "font" was to be employed in numbering SS daggers.
Some numbers are stamped, others engraved.

Of the three numbered "Bokers" I have had, all were stamped. However, one on the rear of lower crossguard. The second at the bottom of lower crossguard. And the third on the upper crossguard. All have different style and size of fonts.
I have also seen "matching" numbers on both dagger and scabbard upper fitting.
Thanks,
-serge-

Some seem to have been banged in with a "forehammer"
Seiler (Yank in UK)

There were no rules that I have ever heard of.

As Serge says, there are both engraved and stamped numbers ... with stampings being in the majority. Lots of different fonts were used and the stampers were by no means expert or did it after they returned from the pub.

I have one dagger with the number stamped 3 times on the lower guard and one with the number stamped twice on the guard and once on the scabbard throat.

Dave

quote:

there appears to have been no set regulation to "where" and what size of "font" was to be employed in numbering SS daggers.

One point in starting this thread was to bring together examples to see if some rough 'observations' regarding placement, fonts, methods etc. could be made.

Heres an old link showing some different SS stampings,,

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/...470028424#4470028424

ive got a poor condition ss dagger to a ferdinand herzig, 2181 anyone got a lower number?

Hi All:

The lowest numbered SS dagger I have been asked about is "11". It is unidentified at this time.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

11 , that is a low number, you'd have thought with such a low number it would be odds on you'd be able to identify the owner.

Hi All:

Not all of the the SS men with SS numbers below 3000 became an officer and, consequently, are not found in the SS-Dienstalterslistes. In fact, I will throw this question out to the forum members. Who was SS No. 1?

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

quote:

Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
Wow! 9th Nov, that is a super grouping you have there. Are we to assume that all those items belonged to the same SS officer?

Here is a Boker that Mr. McDivitt did a file for me.
When you can place a name to a dagger it really is great. Great Thread!

Your dagger belonged to a SS that was born in France, I'll do some digging in french archives to see what I can find and I'll let you know.
Regards, Arnaud

-serge-

That's very kind of you 7.92X57. Thank You! -serge-