UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Police Uniforms Forum Teno Insignia Set

Teno ID just aquired and on the way

another view of the ID

Paulbear : Great ID ;-I had never seen one .
My gilted Teno visor cap reave seems to be heavy as compared with a standard Army reave ; --just through the fact that it is so much larger in size and has a thicker wallthickness to the metal itself .

I can not compare silver finished to gilt finished , since I do not have a silver one .

..and back side .

Bernd - that GOLD Mützenkranz is a beauty, the nicest that I have seen! We'll need to wait until you collect one of the Silver Mützenkranz, so that you can perform a side-by-side comparison, with regards to your assessment of the construction of whether the comparison is of Aluminum or of Nickel Silver.

PaulBear - NICE! You picked up an exceptional TeNo Ausweis, both in its condition, and based upon the information which it shows, in that:

(1) The TN Nothelfer was a very young man (born 28.11.1917) and was age 19 when he entered the TN on 14.12.1936;
(2) He was assigned to the Signal's section, which was a part of the AD (Allgemeine Dienst);
(3) He was 'vereidigt' (sworn in) on 9.10.1937, some 10 months after his entry date. [I don't have any information about this 'swearing in' - so this Ausweis notation is exceptionally interesting to me.]
(4) His Ortsgruppe Stempel is for XI/6, listing Eiselben as the OG city.
......... XI stands for the Landesgruppe Mitteldeutschland (as of the 1934 'Die Räder' publication.)
(5) But, BEST of All (to me) is the notation (bottom edge, under Photo page) of him being issued / awarded the TN Zivilabzeichen Nr. 38170. [I've now seen this on 4 TN Ausweis, and it is Super to find!)

• NOW, what is not yet clearly known is: Was this the Enamel (Red & Black) Pin with the Nadel (needle / lapel pin) - or was it for the Enamel (Red & Black) Pin, without a needle/lapel pin?
• My Belief (but, which I can not yet prove) is that the referenced "Zivilabzeichen Nr. 38170" was for a numbered TN Enameled Lapel Type Pin.

Hopefully, the new book (hopefully released soon),"German Police, Vol. 2" will have information in the TN Chapter which may help us to clarify the two (2) different TN Enameled Pins:

* * * Red & Black Lapel Pin Type &
* * * Red & Black No Lapel Pin (w a Transverse / Horizontal Catch) Type.
• • • (Both of which were 'usually' numbered, BUT which had quite different reverse side features.)

There may also be other interesting aspects which I may have missed.
You have a Jewel of a TN Ausweis! CONGRATS! .... Best, Dave/dblmed

thanks Dave ,I hope more will come from this source

PAUL

here is a glimse of my TENO stuff. Taken through glass so best we can do

a second view. note how few items I have so donations offers to buy in order to improve this modest offering are always welcome :}

PAUL

Paul, WOW... You've got a SUPER TeNo Collection!

Neat, that it is cross-sectional of various eras of the TN!
Love that NCO/EM Hauer and the Cased TN Honor Badge (Ehrenabzeichen) - and ALL the other TN items.

3 of your items hold a real interest for me!
When you have time, could you scan (Front and Back) of these three? - they are quite special indeed.

I believe that the TN Armband is either pre-33 TeNo or 1940+ Dutch TN (Technische Noodhulp) - with the same two considerations also for the great Oval TN Patch.

That 'Cut Out' TN Eagle is a real interest to me, & I want to see "IF" it was made that way - or, whether the post 42 TN Officers cut it down, to look more like their new parent, the SS - SS/Polizei.

(The Same 'Cut Out' TN Eagle is shown on page 473 of "Defending the Reich" - the Officer on the far RIGHT - & I was surprised that this "previously Unseen" TN Eagle type was not commented upon in the book. (But, the book is Super!) Subsequently, I have acquired 2 different Photos of Officers wearing your "cut out" or factory made, TN Sleeve Eagle.)

Great TN Collection Paul.... Thanks for Sharing(!) .... Dave/dblmed

TeNo Sports Patch

I just bought a long term TeNo collection & this Super Red & Black TN Sports Patch was in the mix.

There is another TN Sports Patch on page 288 of "Defending the Reich" which is not printed in color. So the TeNo / TN may have used two models of their Sports Patch.

It measures 4.25" in diameter and seems to have been printed in a 'Silk Screen' type of process - using one color, followed by the next color. There are some small over runs of red color, which makes me think that this is the case.
TeNo Sports Patch-Front ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

TeNo Sports Patch-Reverse
...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Wow Dave!
I've never seen a TENO sports badge. That is neat. It has to be rare like a TENO gorget?
Congratulation!

Regards,
-serge-

new pic early dude me thinks. wondering if this is the same guy as in my ID card above

Paul ... NICE TeNo Photo which shows us a lot of great information!

Date - is between mid 1935 (when the TN Visor Eagle came out) and early 1937 (last date that the Square TN Armscheibe could be worn, instead of the TN Eagle Triangle sleeve patch.
Even narrower Date - is prior to the 1936 shoulder board change - to both shoulders. So, it is a nice narrow time frame.

Collars - Can't tell for sure, but it looks like NO Collar Patch - and just Arabic #'s LT. and Roman Numerals on RT. The familiar TN Collar Tab, was another 1936 Introduction.

? WWI Ribbons - he looks young, but who knows?

Nice NCO/EM Visor and correct TN Uniform. Love the Belt and Cross Strap (+ Gloves.)

Could be the same TN Mann, but to me he looks a little different. Any writing on the Reverse?
A Nice TN representative photo showing early TN Uniform & Insignia Details.

Paul - As time permits, please Post your "Cut Out" Sleeve Eagle here. It is a Rare and a very Special one! Txs, Dave/dblmed

as requested

reverse

Paul .....You have a Great TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle! ...That is a Rare Bird, IMO. Congrats! This variation has NOT been described in any texts, thus far.

I first saw this "Cut Out" TN Eagle in "Defending the Reich" pg 473, Officer on the Right - and was amazed! No comment was made in the text, but this is a TeNo Eagle which is NOT found in the Regulations!

•1) Can you tell 'IF' it was Manufactured in this "Cut Out" configuration - - - - or - - -
"IF" it appears to be a TeNo Blue Triangle patch Eagle, which has been altered, to be "Cut Out?" (I studied your photo of a definitely Uniform worn Eagle, but can't tell for sure.)

•2) Below are 2 photos of your same TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle in wear. (The size also confirms that this is NOT a visor eagle, which was just worn on the sleeve. Also confirmatory, is that the TN Visor eagle's head faced towards the Eagle's Left Wing - but the the TN Sleeve Eagle types face towards the Eagle's Left Right. So, this definitely a Sleeve Eagle, but it is in a different Configuration.)

• LEFT Photo - Worn on a field-grey TN Uniform, with interesting Green Collar & configuration.

• RIGHT Photo - Nice Portrait Photo (w the TN Dagger) worn on a (probable) field-grey TN Uniform also.

•3) I enlarged each TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle for better detail.
(Looks just like yours!)

•4) I can't prove it, but my 'hunch' is that this TeNo "Cut Out" Eagle configuration was done - to more closely mirror the TN's parent organization - SS/Police, as the TN transitioned into that organization.
..... Interesting "New TN Eagle Configuration!!! .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

New TN photo in for me

IT APPEARS to be manufactured this way and has a padded reverse not typical of mass produced insignia .

PAUL

Gary ... As a proper English Gentleman, you don't say much along with your Posts - you let the Item do the talking! And this latest photo is a WOW & it really 'talks' to us!

The photo is a wonderful view of a 1943-1945 classic "TeNo-Police" Hauptwachtmeister, with < 12 years of Service [as I interpret the TN Rank Charts). Just Splendid. What is also striking, is that the Collar Tabs do seem to be a bit longer in dimension, than a classic SS Collar Tab of the same configuration? [Or - is it just me who is imagining things? Several 'old time' TN collectors have made this observation to me, regarding the '43-'45 TN Collar Tabs in general - but I have not 'seen' it before. I'd imagine that a LOT of the LEFT sided '43-'45 TN Collar Tabs, have been sold as being SS.)

Also the 'Location' of the Photo (lower RT. corner) is more fantastic TeNo information. The photographer was located in Olmütz. Only by having read a 'pre-release' copy of German Police, Vol. 2 , did I learn of the significance of Olmütz.

There was a famous Lager der Ordnungspolizei located in Olmütz. The TN.-Ersatz-Abteilung Olmütz was transferred there from Pohrlitz to Olmütz in August, 1940. This TN Unit was still operational in Olmütz, in Moravia, between 22 August and 6 October, 1944, as per my TeNo Soldbuch, below.

So, IMO, the time-line fits in perfectly for your Super "TeNo-Police" Hauptwachtmeister Photo for the 1943-1945 Ranks in effect. Your TN-mann was stationed at Olmütz, and the photo was taken by a local photographer's studio, IMO. (Those Collar Tabs and Shoulder Boards are next to impossible to find!)

Below is a TeNo Soldbuch, with the TN.-Ersatz-Abteilung Olmütz entry. (Hope that it is large enough to see well - but not too large!)Great TN Photo Gary ... Txs, Dave / dblmed

Paul - I compared your TeNo "Cut Out" Eagles to the two Photos of them which I have, as noted below.

This is a TeNo Eagle which is NOT yet described in the Books! I believe that you have a very, very Rare Variation. CONGRATS! These "Cut Out" Eagles were even worn by at least one TN Landesfuhrer, Walther Junecke, as I have a photo of him with it on his formal Greatcoat.

Paul, What a Nice addition to the TeNo / TN Adler family!! (Maybe there are even more 'unknown' TN Eagles that we may find?)
...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks Dave you certainly know your TN, I just got it for the photo, did not know the other significant detils in the phot, I now know more. Here is postcard\that was recently for sale on a German site that I missed.

Gary - Yes, that is one Super and very Rare early TeNo Post Card! I'd also seen it (and drooled over it a while), but the Price was a bit too steep for me.

The "V/3" on the flag is correct for the TN Landesgruppe and Ortsgruppe "3" for Essen/Ruhr, as per HPT's extensive OG listing in POLICE, VOL . 2. The visor Mützenkranz is stylistically the 1934 1st metal type - but it doesn't show the details all that well.

Like ALL of us aa Collectors (and mini-TR Historians, by default), I am a life-time continuing Student of the Polizei in general, & TeNo / TN and Schuma in particular.

I read that someone said "I don't even Know ... what I don't Know" about TR Collecting. A well thought out commentary. It is so fascinating that there are still many 'unsolved mysteries' and 'unknowns' about our fields of collecting. But, that adds to the fun of it all - asking questions - observing - learning - & sharing with your friends. It makes this Forum quite a Great one, IMO. Txs... Dave/dblmed

Gary's Post Card - also of interest is that there are 16 Cogs , instead of the 'Usual' 15, for most TeNo items.
I find that the TN used 14, 15, and 16 Cogs, on various items + the 'multi-Coged' early 22 Cogs (or ? 24), by memory .... Dave/dblmed

Thanks Dave for all the info, here is a nice one for you Tn General

Gary - A GREAT Photo for sure!

A friend from the Axis History forum send me the following information about the Photo.

RIGHT: GM Schumann was assigned to the Stab of the Commander of the Order Police and Higher SS and Police Leader (Vienna) - Danube in the gaus Niederdonau, upper Danube, Vienna in the military district XVII” from 01.03.1944 to 01.10.1944.

LEFT: And the man at left is GM der Polizei Walther Junecke, 00.08.1943 - 31.03.1945 He was also TN Landesführer der Landesgruppe XVII “Donau“ bzw. Führer des Bereichs Donau der TN (Wien)

They included this 2nd, Larger Photo, of the Generals & the event..... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here is Landesfuhrer Walther Junecke, in his TN Uniform in 1942. .... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here is something to keep the Teno-ball rolling.

Photo from todays fleamarket outside of Munich



Detail:



Kind regards
Robert

Thanks Robert! ...Your awesome Photos always leave me speechless! I just got a copy of "Police, Vol. 2" and your MANY Photos in it 'made' the book, IMO. Thanks for your generosity in sharing your Polizei Photo-Treasures with us! (Especially of the TeNo!!)

Collar ID's #'s of IX and 19 are:
• LG - Landesgruppe IX Schlesien (Silesia) w HQ in Breslau
• OG - Ortsgruppe 19 for City: unfortunately, still one of the unknowns!
(But LG IX only had 33 OG's in 1934, so we will ID them.)
Any writing on the back of the Photo????

LG (Roman) and OG (Numbers) are affixed directly to the collar lapels in this photo. It seems that 'most' (but not All) of the OG's were using a plain black Collar Tab / Patch (with the ID #'s affixed). This was not standardized until late 1936, with the now familiar 'standard' black TeNo Collar Tab / Patch with the silver & black "V" piping all around.

The Visor insignia in the 'blow up' is super! It shows the 1st type TeNo Eagle, made of Nickel Silver, with the lower 3 arms of the Swastika 'cut out.' The Mützenkranz is the Assmann Oak Leaf 'Heer' type, based upon the open top (the ends not touching) and the distinctive shadow. The TN Eagle was introduced in late January, 1935, and the Laurel Leaf Mützenkranz is seen in 1936 dated photos. The later 1935-1945 TeNo Eagles were then made of Aluminum, and had a square based Swastika - w no cut out.

The TN Band members are wearing RT. shoulder boards only. The switch to double shoulder boards came about in December, 1936.

So, "IF" I am seeing what I believe that I am seeing - all of this would date this photo to between January, 1935 and December, 1936. It is fun to try to time date these TN Photos, & it is not totally accurate, since it took time for TN Units to get outfitted with the 'latest' rank and uniform changes.

The late 1933 left sleeve, Armscheibe TN Patch was allowed to be worn until 1937, so it tells us that the photo is early, but doesn't narrow the date as well as does the Mützenkranz.

Just another FABULOUS Robert Noss Photo! Thanks for sharing with us. Your 'Eagle Eyes' find the BEST Photos! ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dear Robert

Thanks for posting your fabulous TN band photo, and thanks also to Dave for highlighting its fascinating uniformological (is that a real word?!)features.

After years of inactivity, it is such a pleasure to see an ever increasing interest in the Police and branches such as the TN, and we have to thank this (and other) Forums for this, as well as photograph collectors like Robert and the books that have been appearing. The SS held the limelight for so long and we grew tired of reprints of old and tired material, with next to no fresh research. I'm proud to be playing a part in putting on record what the German Police was, how it was organized, who led it and what they wore.

hpt

Oliver ...EIN GROSSES Willkommen zu GDC! A BIG welcome to GDC!

Your Konvolut is a spectacular & it is a very significant TeNo collection.

• You have the TeNo Hewer of TN-Mann JOSEPH STERF
(It is soooooooo very unusual to find out who was the owner of the Daggers / Hewers that we collect! This is great news.)

• You have letters from the top man of the TeNo, Chef der TN und SS Gruppenführer, Hans Weinreich & from a TN Landesführer, Walther Junecke (who became the #3 man of the TN, as the Chef der Stabs in Berlin in 1943!

All 3 letters were sent to your TN-Mann, JOSEPH STERF! WOW. Congratulations!

• and you have the Wehrpass of TN-Mann JOSEPH STERF! Since it is a Wehrpass & not a TN Soldbuch, it is quite possible that he was one of the TN • TeNo men who were taken into the HEER in 1941. They formed the Technische Truppen of the HEER, which was commanded by Erich Hampe, the former #2 man at the TN • TeNo! Some GREAT history is to be found in you Konvolut!

Amazing and THANK YOU for sharing your wonderful Konvolut with us!

Oliver, I have re-Posted your items here, on the dedicated TeNo Thread on GDC at:
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...44/m/2280097494/p/18

The Collectors at that Thread would love to see these - and hopefully to see the pages of the Wehrpass of JOSEPH STERF as well. TeNo Insignia, Uniforms, Documents, Visors, Caps, etc., are discussed on the TeNo thread.

Again, WELCOME, and thank you for sharing with us some very rare items!

Posted for Oliver1970

Hallo,
this Konvolut i became two jears ago from a collector from Graz.
It is a letter from TeNo Chef Weinreich and two letters from Landesführer Junecke.
Includes:
His TeNo HEWER & his Wehrpass

Posted for Oliver1970

Pic1 - Chef der TN und SS-Gruppenfuhrer H. Weinreich Letter of 22.II.1041
RE: TN Mann JOSEF STERF

Posted for Oliver1970

pic2 - Landesfuhrer Walther Junecke Letter of 9.Juli.1941
RE: TN Mann JOSEF STERF

Posted for Oliver1970

pic3 - Landesfuhrer Walther Junecke Letter of 20.October.1941
RE: TN Mann JOSEF STERF

Oliver, this Photo goes well with your Konvolut!
I have attached a Photo from my collection of TN Landesführer Walther Junecke in 1942, wearing his TN Officer's Dagger, the GOLD TN Buckle and Brocade, and his Greatcoat with the rare 'cut-out' TN Eagle. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

For Dave

GARY! ...This is a 'Heart Attack' display of really hard to find & superbe TeNo / TN Items!
• 2 of the Gold Thread Embroidered TN 'Year Honor Cuffs" titles
• A nice TN Lapel Pin - mit Nadel (Zivilabzeichen)
• 4 of the 5 TN Honor Badges!!
....looks like 1923-1922-1920-1919 (!) ...on my screen?
Quite Spectacular & Thanks for Sharing! ...Dave/dblmed

very nice display

PAUL