UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Klaas "U 9" Navy Dagger

Klaas U 9 Naval Dagger

A few things I have learned from mine—please add to the list I really want to know

1. The actual blade etch remains the essentially the same. Other than a few little rough edges and this or that line being a little thicker or thinner or a few more or less water inlet ports as caused by the etchng process, If “you have seen one you have seen them all”. I am personally aware of seven U 9’s being sold in the last five years and they were all identical in the etch. One of the seven did have a hammered scabbard.
2. The Robert Klaas stamp may be on either side of the blade. The stamp may be centered or slightly toward the blade body. All of the stamps I have seen are the same.
3. Two different blade blanks were used. When looking at the side of the ricasso one is square and the other tapers into the body of the blade. The tapered ricasso blade is ¼ inch longer than the boxed ricasso one. The fullers of the tapered ricasso model extend farther into the etch double floral pattern.
4. The etched blade is nickel plated, with darkened frosting as the background to the design.
5. The U 9 on the reverse. This U Boat is not an actual artist copy of the original U9 either World War One or Two but more or less a composite of the two in my view. I think a submariner will look at the boat and say it is a II B from the 30’s. There was a time I thought maybe this design was ordered by Luth to celebrate his Knights Cross but I think the celebration of the Otto Weddigen boat makes more sense. Klaas is no help. They say all of their records were destroyed during WW II, which is the stock answer. We hope to conduct some more research with this firm, but with a German national this time. Back to the etch. The U9 was authorized to have the Iron Cross on the conning tower but it is missing from this design. Of course during war time both the Iron Cross and bow markings were not used. I do not think the design on the conning tower is a 9. I believe it is a life preserver with a running light below. The bow marking U 9 is of course crystal clear. The etch on the obverse. The battle ship is well done look for the 3 gun turret and the fluttering flags. The fouled anchor is typical.
6. The grip is celluloid over wood in all I have seen with a twisted brass wire wrap. The wire ends are not pegged into the side of the grip but extend below the crossguard and pommel.
7. The crossguard and pommel. Everyone says they are generic and I agree. I have seen a couple different eagles, the rounded head parrot beaked Krebs type and the square jawed Weyersberg, I am really not great on different heads as I have really never cared that much. The crossguard has the large central panel with fouled anchor and the guard ends are the rounded end type. The push button is always notched.
8. The scabbard. Some variation in length up to ½ inch.. Scabbard reminds me of some Horsters. The scabbard throat is affixed with two large dome head scabbard screws. The scabbard liners may be either metal army type or standard wooden navy liners. Blades with the metal liners don’t hold up very well. I think the metal liners were introduced first and then Klaas switched to wooden like most other firms. The oak leaf and acorn suspension bands are mounted with the leaves facing toward or away from the eye. The bands facing away from the eye are scalloped on the edge in the shape of the leaf while the ones facing the ring are more squared on the edge. Neither eyelets have center sleeves.

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The above pic, the top U 9 was in a scabbard with metal runners. I picked it up in Germany.
It had hangers and knot. The hangers were the gilded aluminum type and the knot which seemed flattened to the crossguard was an army.

closer

Vic, In my estimation it looks like a Type IIB with the first post WW I German U-Boat flotilla of this class being comprised of the U.7-U.12 based at Kiel under Captain Dönitz. U.1-U.6 were training boats.

There were only 57 U-Boats operational at the start of the war. And appropriately enough U.9 was part of the Weddigen Flotilla comprising the U.9,U.13, U.15, U.17, U.19, U.21 and the U.23. I hope that this helps. Best Regards, FP

Vic, thank you very much for showing these well conditioned and very rare daggers. I really wonder (is the forum really down so far) that there is not more interest in them. They for sure are daggers you do not see at each show (at last the original ones as there are already copies out there).
May I ask, do you own both daggers? You have mentioned that you think the eagle is generic but I think to see two obviously different eagles (pics 3, 4), am I right? The crossguard (pic 6,7) seems to be typical EICKHORN which also would conform to the brown felt washer.
Which one in the pics is the one with the steel spring (liner), the one in pic 1, the one with the red or the brown washer? Do both of your daggers have the mm? If yes on oposite sides I think to see? Could you please show pics side by side obverse and reverse so we perhaps can see the minute differences?
Wonderful interesting daggers,
Thank you in advance,

Wotan, thanks for your interest. These U 9 are pretty rare. If less than 100 were made as TW thinks there are not many around.
Pic 1 has wooden scabbard liners. Pic 13 the one with the green buffer has metal liners. Generic may not be the best choice of words regarding parts, it seems Klaas picked what ever was available on the market. These 3 daggers are all maker marked. Two have the boxed ricasso and one has the tapered. The maker mark stamp is located on the obverse of the 2 boxed type ricasso and the tapered ricasso is marked on the reverse. Wotan your question about interest, extends to most navy items. I was talking with a very close friend of the late Hermann Maurer ( who was my tutor on navy and Auto/Aero daggers) this week and he was telling me about the navy manuscript he and Hermann had put together ready to publish in the late 70's. All of the navy daggers from 1848 to 1945 hundred of pages. I am told they could not find a publisher that would take the project. I discussed this with Hermann Maurer in the late 80's but he was so frustrated with things he never pursued publishing again. I have been told that has been some feeling among collectors over the years that navy daggers are not "Nazi" enough. I have no idea if such feelings ever existed or do today. Navy daggers 1848-1945 have always been my favorite.

Vic,

Many thanks for your very informative posts.

We really appreciate the time and effort you put into this.

Best regards,
Dave

Dave:

Thanks, it is somewhat selfish, I am always seeking new information about navy daggers, there is so much to learn.

Vic

Vic always a pleasure sir to see your stuff.
I love that U9 dagger. Klaas also had an unetched plain variant Navy.
One is owned by an esteemed forum member who has yet to yield to my pleads... :>
Thanks for the peek!

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2q

Well done- enjoyed reading this. You don’t see metal runners in navy’s often but I will say that Pack did use them.

Vicdiehl,

Just wanted to thank you for those wonderful close-ups and information on the Klaas Navy pieces. Ya just gott'a love the etch work.
Great on original dress bayonets too!!

I Love This Stuff,
Von Ryan

Post war navy U-boat blade.

Now ya see, ain't those etched beautiful!!!!
I always enjoy looking at great etches like the original pre-45 pieces above. Any idea about the worth of these examples.

I Love This Stuff,

Von Ryan

Missed this post first time round, very interesting and highly informative, thanks for taking the time to put this together. I have one of these daggers at home, from memory it matches up well with the first piece you posted, superb daggers - you are lucky to have picked up two !

Jonathan

I just noticed this thread, very informative and stunning daggers.
I didn't know that these Klaas "U9" were so rare and having such a pair in your collection.........AWESOME.
Thanks for showing.

Gentlemen:

Has this blade ever been reproduced?

Von Ryan

To date, I have not seen this blade reproduced in total. I have seen, like many of you blades of both plain steel and false damascus with U-Boats as part of the design.

Hi Folks, Those are some GREAT U-9's!! Paul Hogle mentioned there is a standard etch KLAAS Navy "Owned by a forum member that has not submitted to his Pleads" Well.. that me. It is in NO WHERE near the condition of the U-9's but it is what it is. I was so concerned about it that I sent it to Tom Wittman who bless it as original (and offered to buy it) see the thread from about a year or so back.


http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/...380002382#1380002382


For those interested here are a few shots of an "odd bird" no pun intended.. OK I did intend it. HA HA!!

Cheers Chris