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Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: Fred Prinz - FP] #260390
02/25/12 06:52 AM
02/25/12 06:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
The West
L
Landser Offline
Landser  Offline

L
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
The West
A fascinating thread here and most assuredly very educational and interesting.
I have a very good understanding of what I collect but to be perfectly honest these fakes shown
could easily fool someone not experienced in the more exotic. Not many collectors get the opportunity to examine
such daggers in detail and therfore just raising awareness is extremely valuable.

I have not seen the TENO`s but these and the postal daggers are extremely convincing.

Many thanks for raising awareness!


War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: den70] #265699
06/03/12 06:44 PM
06/03/12 06:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
B
byf41@aol.com Offline
byf41@aol.com  Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
The thing I first noticed was the way the RZM circle extends beyond the flat surface of the blade . Also the depth and sharp lines of the motto . Gotta say I was on the fence until Serge chimed in . As usual. Good eye Serge.

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: byf41@aol.com] #265891
06/08/12 09:33 PM
06/08/12 09:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 60
D
DTS Offline
DTS  Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 60
Seems to me, these fakes are BETTER than originals, i.e., crisper details on the mfg. etchings, straighter swaz on the eagle, and more. They're almost too good.

Very, very scary.

DTS

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: DTS] #267726
07/14/12 05:40 PM
07/14/12 05:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,079
Indialantic, Florida USA
Gator Offline
Gator  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,079
Indialantic, Florida USA
I am glad I caught this thread, have been away from the hobby for a while. First thing I did was check mine, TG it was in agreement with the original. Just when you get a little overconfident something like this comes along to jar your ego. I guess you have to look very carefully at every piece. I have seen several HJL repros but none this good. You don't always have a good one to compare a potential purchase to though, and at HJL prices getting stuck would hurt.


"Mountain Dew or Crab Juice?"
Homer
"God that stuff is awful. I'll have a Crab Juice!"
The Simpsons
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: Gator] #272697
10/22/12 10:02 AM
10/22/12 10:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22
N
Nork Offline
Nork  Offline
N
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22
Is there lists on the forum for wearers of the Hj honor dagger? I have some from original sources and would post them if interest is there?

Last edited by Nork; 10/22/12 10:02 AM.
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: Nork] #272699
10/22/12 10:33 AM
10/22/12 10:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 926
England
P
Paul Offline
Paul  Offline

P
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 926
England
Post away, Im sure we would all be interested
Many Thanks
Paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: byf41@aol.com] #272703
10/22/12 12:33 PM
10/22/12 12:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,479
at home
wotan Offline
wotan  Offline

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,479
at home
Originally Posted By: byf41@aol.com
The thing I first noticed was the way the RZM circle extends beyond the flat surface of the blade . Also the depth and sharp lines of the motto . Gotta say I was on the fence until Serge chimed in . As usual. Good eye Serge.


@ byf41: The RZM circle CAN extend (slightly) beyond the flat surface of the blade ALSO ON ORIGINAL BALDES/DAGGERS! This partially wrong (!) sign for fakes is spread since decades!!!
This CAN happen by EICKHORN (single circle RZM which also CAN be within the flat surface) and does nearly always happen by HÖRSTER (double circle RZM) daggers. At least what I could observe by the rare occasions to see an original dagger, what I have in my files and the few I do/did own.

@Nork: Never have heard of such a list, it would be highly interesting to see it!

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: den70] #274881
12/02/12 07:04 PM
12/02/12 07:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
B
byf41@aol.com Offline
byf41@aol.com  Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
Yes , I agree . What I was referring to was the way the circle on the dagger in question extends FURTHER beyond the flat than on the original .

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: den70] #274882
12/02/12 07:07 PM
12/02/12 07:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
B
byf41@aol.com Offline
byf41@aol.com  Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
Can Den70 please post a picture of the scabbard throat on the fake compared to an original ?

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: byf41@aol.com] #293051
12/18/13 05:10 PM
12/18/13 05:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,008
Zebulon, NC USA
Vern Offline
Vern  Offline

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,008
Zebulon, NC USA
Very nice comparison photos. The fakes just keep getting better wink


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Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: Vern] #300580
09/13/14 12:09 PM
09/13/14 12:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
USA
1942collector Offline
1942collector  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
USA
Gentleman
Someone ask about the Spanish HJ Leader copies made way back when. I think this is one of them, acquired this many years ago back. It looks nice but not really comparable to a original so I don't think it will fool anyone except perhaps a beginner.
Just another one to watch for.
Thanks
Mike

Attached Files
2000-12-31 003 019.JPG (471 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 018.JPG (468 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 020.JPG (470 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 021.JPG (469 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 016.JPG (471 downloads)
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: 1942collector] #300581
09/13/14 12:12 PM
09/13/14 12:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
USA
1942collector Offline
1942collector  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
USA
Gentleman
Just some more pic's of the Spanish HJ Leader.
Please excuse the pictures,still working with a older dig. camera.
Mike

Attached Files
2000-12-31 003 014.JPG (467 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 001.JPG (467 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 002.JPG (467 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 006.JPG (467 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 007.JPG (467 downloads)
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: 1942collector] #305391
02/17/15 08:32 PM
02/17/15 08:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
France
sanglier88 Offline
sanglier88  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
France
Hello,
Can you confirm that this dagger HJ leader is a copy.
I buy € 1350 and I'm afraid I made a stupidity.
Thank you for your help
PS: Sorry if I did not fully complied with the procedure Forum

Attached Files
HJ1.JPG (407 downloads)
HJ1
HJ3.JPG (406 downloads)
HJ3
HJ4.JPG (406 downloads)
HJ4
HJ5.JPG (407 downloads)
HJ5
HJ6.JPG (404 downloads)
HJ6
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: sanglier88] #305392
02/17/15 08:38 PM
02/17/15 08:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
France
sanglier88 Offline
sanglier88  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
France
Continuation and end
Thank you in advance

Attached Files
HJ2.JPG (403 downloads)
HJ2
HJ7.JPG (401 downloads)
HJ7
HJ8.JPG (399 downloads)
HJ8
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: sanglier88] #305444
02/19/15 05:24 AM
02/19/15 05:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,479
at home
wotan Offline
wotan  Offline

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,479
at home
sanglier88, first let me also welcome you to the forum.
Concerning the HJ Leader´s dagger: Unfortunately you are right. It is one of the old fakes, artificially aged to convince. But there are a lot of features (eg. the pommel, the pommel emblem, the eagle emblem, material, etc etc) which make clear that it is a fake.
Regards,

PS.: I already did write here an answer yesterday but due to unknown reasions it did disappear..


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: wotan] #305447
02/19/15 09:47 AM
02/19/15 09:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
France
sanglier88 Offline
sanglier88  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
France
Thank you very much for your answer.
Now I'm set.
I bought it in a shop near the Normandy landing beaches.
The vendor looked honest.
Now that I know I will learn your forum to be less naive.
Best Regards

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: sanglier88] #305567
02/25/15 03:34 PM
02/25/15 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 435
Brecon, Powys, UK
Terry Pullen Offline
Terry Pullen  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 435
Brecon, Powys, UK
Has anyone got a replica HJ leader for sale?


If you want to criticise someone first walk a mile in their shoes. Then, when they come after you, you'll be a mile ahead and they'll be barefoot.
Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: Terry Pullen] #305611
02/27/15 11:43 AM
02/27/15 11:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
USA
1942collector Offline
1942collector  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
USA
Terry
I have the Spanish copy posted above, think these were mad back in the late 19560s and a fairly good job to.
It is for sale also.
Mike

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: Terry Pullen] #308422
05/29/15 08:30 AM
05/29/15 08:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 149
España
palante125 Offline
palante125  Offline
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 149
España
Mr. Terry I also have a very good copy to sell

Re: HY Leader opinions. [Re: den70] #331759
09/14/17 11:28 AM
09/14/17 11:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 95
Barcelona - Catalonia
MarcGB Online content
MarcGB  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 95
Barcelona - Catalonia
Originally Posted By: den70
Trademark. Pay attention to the substrate and the depth of etching. With almost perfect repetition of pattern stamps, you can see the difference in the technologies of etching.

left a copy, the original right.



In addition to this type of dagger, there are various copies of that I was able to compare in the my hands of the original daggers from the collections of the U.S. and Europe.


It is very obvious the one on the left is laser etching...

Page 2 of 2 1 2

GDC Reference Library

-- German Militaria References --

Awards and Medals

3rd Reich Badges & Clasps
3rd Reich Orders & Medals
Imperial Combat Badges
Imperial Orders & Medals
Iron Cross 1st Gallery
Iron Cross 1st Spanges
Iron Cross 2nd Gallery
Iron Cross 2nd Spanges
Knight's Cross Gallery
Oak Leaves, Swords, & Diamonds
Order of the German Eagle
Ribbon Bar Chart
Shields/Cuff Titles
Award/Medal Maker Marks

Daggers & Swords

Dagger Id Guide
Miniature Dagger Id Guide
Dagger Blade Mottos
Maker/Distributor Marks
SA/NSKK Group Marks
SA/HJ RZM Codes
SA Transitional RZM Codes
SS RZM Codes
Eickhorn "Field Marschall" Swords

Insignia and Emblems

Armbands
Belt Buckles
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Imperial
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SA
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SS
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Other NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Military
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Government
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Police
Cuff Titles - Non-SS
Cuff Titles - SS
SS Sleeve Diamonds
Foreign Volunteer Arm Shields
Gorgets
Helmet Decals
Military Career/Specialist Patches
Military Services Waffenfarbe
Uniform Eagle Insignia
Visor Cap/Hat Insignia

Manufacturer Codes

Erkennungs Unit Abbreviations
HeeresWaffenAmt Codes
Lieferant & LDO Numbers
Optics Maanufacturer Codes
RZM M1 - Insignia & Badge Makers
RZM M2 - Metal Work Suppliers
RZM M3 - Party Emblem Makers
RZM M4 - Buckle Makers
RZM M5 - Uniform Accessories
RZM M7 - Edged Weapons Makers
RZM M9 - Tinnie Makers
RZM M11/12 - NSDAP LS Medals & Minature Makers

-- U.S. Militaria References --

Aviator Wings
Army Enlisted Collar Discs
Military Medals
Ribbon Chart
WW1 Division Patches
WW2 Army & Corps Patches
WW2 Division Patches
WW2 Phantom Division Patches

-- Small Arms References --

Autoloading Pistols 1892-1909
Beretta Pistols 1915-1945
Colt Auto Pistols 1900-1945
FN (Browning) Pistols 1900-1945
Luger Proof & Acceptance Marks 1898-1945
Lugers - DWM Production 1895-1929
Lugers - DWM Military/Contract 1904-29
Lugers - Rework & Non-DWM 1915-1945
Mauser C96 Broomhandles 1896-1937
Nambu Pistols 1902-1945
Walther 1-9, PP, PPK, & P38 1910-1945
Walther Sport/Olympia Pistols

WW2 Pistols
WW2 Rifles
WW2 Sub-machine Guns
WW2 (German) Assault Rifles
WW2 Light Machine Guns

-- WW2 Armored Vehicles --

Axis Countries
Armored Vehicles of Germany
Armored Vehicles of Hungary
Armored Vehicles of Italy
Armored Vehicles of Japan

Allied Countries
Armored Vehicles of France
Armored Vehicles of Great Britain
Armored Vehicles of Poland
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.S.R.


More to come ;)

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