Tranlsate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)


Upgrade to Premium Membership

Topic Options
#330726 - 07/30/17 01:35 PM Eickhorn 1st Model Navy
Baz69 Offline


Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 4462
Loc: England
Here's one I just picked up, I've been looking for one of these for a long time, the bonus with this one is the grip.
Gary


Attachments
1 - 1.jpg

1 - 2.jpg

1 - 3.jpg

1 - 7.jpg

1 - 10.jpg

1 - 12.jpg

c - 1.jpg



Top
#330731 - 07/30/17 07:26 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Baz69]
dr73 Online


Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 741
Loc: Europe
That's a magnificent piece! Congratulations!

Regards
Danny

Top
#330732 - 07/30/17 07:44 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: dr73]
JohnZ Offline


Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 5162
Loc: Calgary
Very nice. Congrats Gary.
_________________________
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.

Top
#330747 - 07/31/17 05:49 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: JohnZ]
seany Offline


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 1426
Loc: england
You really do find some nice daggers well done
_________________________
Regards Sean

Top
#330748 - 07/31/17 06:08 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: seany]
Mikes73 Online


Registered: 02/21/17
Posts: 38
Loc: Oklahoma
Beautiful piece, great scabbard too.

Top
#330752 - 08/01/17 09:24 AM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Mikes73]
WW2-Collector Offline


Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 3274
Loc: Texas
Gary wonderful example for your world class collection ! See you at the Max Show my friend.
_________________________
Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com

Top
#330759 - 08/01/17 11:56 AM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: WW2-Collector]
Baz69 Offline


Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 4462
Loc: England
Thank you guys, I do appreciate all of your comments.

This piece exhibits all the attributes of an Eickhorn product including the lack of rope design on the reverse of the scabbard rings, that's what clinched it for me as a piece that had always been together. I just need to find one with it's original pommel now.

Gary

Top
#330776 - 08/02/17 09:21 AM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Baz69]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Hello Gary, i Know this is my first post on here but I have been a collector of navy daggers for a number of years. what I see here is a standard M38 Eickhorn pommel, with a 33-35 maker marked blade I would expect to see a "replacement pommel" which would have replaced the ball pommel in 1938,the crossguard is also their later M38 type and not their smaller M29 guard which you would expect to see with this maker mark. The scabbard is in my opinion a WKC product, you can tell this by the thin girth rings, Eickhorn used thick girth, the lightning bolt and acanthus leaf design is also typical of WKC with the outside lines of the acanthus leaves stopping short of going all the way down to the chape (this changed on the WKC M38). And the chape is also the WKC designed one. The lack of the rope pattern on the reverse side of the eyelets is a WKC feature and not Eickhorn, there is an Eickhorn M29 on ulricofengland where you can check this out and a WKC on wittmanns site which shows eyelets the same as your scabbard. It could be a mixture due to updating but there is no way of knowing.
Best regards Russ.

Top
#330780 - 08/02/17 12:06 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Baz69 Offline


Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 4462
Loc: England
Hello Russ

I'm always glad to see a new member post and one who obviously knows his stuff, as far as the lack of rope design on the eyelets I have been looking in TW's Navy book on Pg 205 where you'll see a similar lack of this design on a scabbard. I agree that the pommel is not the replacement type, personally I do not have a problem with that as long as it is an Eickhorn product, as far as the cross guard goes this piece certainly has a large centre block as in my experience you would expect on an Eickhorn guard from this period. As far as the girth of the rings is concerned I think it may be the photo's as they seem the same as my other Eickhorns.

Thanks and I do appreciate your thoughts.
Gary


Edited by Baz69 (08/02/17 12:08 PM)

Top
#330782 - 08/02/17 12:59 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Baz69]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Hi Gary, Its funny you should mention the dagger in Wittmanns book on page 205 as this dagger actually belongs to me, Tom told me that himself and Brian Madeira (not sure if I spelt his name right) took possession of Robert Waitts collection when he passed away, I latter purchased this dagger from Brian Madeira. I posted it in warrelics forum, it is on page 3 Early Eickhorn 1st model Kriegs, notice the earlier Eickhorn guard with the smaller centre block which is correct for their 33-35 maker mark. After I had this dagger a while I noticed on multiple WKC rope band scabbards the same features that are on mine and after a lot of research I had to come to the conclusion that it is a WKC scabbard. I'll be honest I was not happy as I prefer textbook daggers. It is known that Eickhorn and WKC did trade with each other, although some will dispute that they traded navy parts, but why not. If you look at page 204 of TWs book which shows the Eickhorn catalogue of 33 you will see rope and the more modern leaf band scabbards available, if Eickhorn were concentrating production on the more modern leaf band scabbards then its possible they acquired rope band scabbards from WKC, so the scabbards on both of our daggers could be ok, this is only a possibility though.
Best regards Russ.

Top
#330783 - 08/02/17 01:23 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Just like to add that my dagger on page 205 is an Eickhorn 1671/1672 with an etched blade and release button fit with a WKC scabbard, it is not as TW says a number 10 (which has a plain blade and no button) with these features as available options.
Best regards Russ.


Edited by Russ1 (08/02/17 01:26 PM)

Top
#330786 - 08/02/17 02:01 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Baz69 Offline


Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 4462
Loc: England
Hello Russ

It's funny then now there are at least two Eickhorn daggers with these bands, nobody knows what went on at this time, I look at the fit and patina on my dagger and I see total consistency in both, there's no doubt in my mind that it has always been together like this, I haven't got any WKC 1929 pattern daggers to compere the scabbard to so it's difficult to say one way or another what makers used the bands. I did notice that your dagger was not a No10, I have found that both Eickhorn and especially WKC would supply you with whatever you wanted if you had the money for it.

Thank you for your thoughts, I shall keep my eyes open for a nice WKC to compere my dagger to.
Gary

Top
#330794 - 08/02/17 03:02 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Baz69]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
I've had quick look and found what appears to be the same scabbard on warrelics forum page 1, Reichsmarine dagger M29 by WKC (thebig). Its an earlier one but the scabbard looks the same with the smooth surface on the reverse eyelets and same bolts and acanthus leaves + chape.
Best regards Russ

Top
#330796 - 08/02/17 04:47 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Also if you scroll down to post 5 on the same thread you can see another WKC with the same eyelets.
Best Russ.

Top
#330811 - 08/03/17 05:58 AM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Gary if you look on page 212 in your TW book there is a good picture of an Eickhorn M29 showing the crossguard and scabbard band.
Best Russ.

Top
#330862 - 08/05/17 11:16 AM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Billy G. Online


Registered: 03/31/00
Posts: 4639
Loc: USA
Gary,

That's a super looking 1st model KM & the grip is a screamer!
_________________________
GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310

Top
#330891 - 08/06/17 04:53 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Billy G.]
stratocaster3 Offline


Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 241
Loc: Texas, USA
Gary, Russ;
I too have an early 1933-35 Eickhorn 1929 pattern daggers. It also has an ivory grip but retains the original reed and cattail over cresting wave pommel. The scabbard is the overlapping leaf variety. My example has the smaller cross guard block that you refer to Russ. It is subtle but it is slightly smaller. The quillion arms are thinner than the examples from late 1930's on. The scabbard is an enigma. It looks to me to be one similar to the early WKC scabbards with the serrated eyes without the sleeves. However, my old eyes can't detect a dimes worth of difference between the early WKC and Eick. overlapping leaf scabbards anyway. They look very, very similar to me. Like Gary's beautiful dagger, mine has the same even patina and wear across all parts and has a set in place tarnished silver bullion porteppe. Its clearly been together for a long time.

Perhaps you are on to something regarding trading of parts between companies. Alternatively, both companies could have used the same third party source for scabbards early on. Also, using up NOS (the thrifty Germans never discarded anything) seems a possible way to introduce variation.

Just a side note, I also have an extremely early 1929 pattern Eickhorn in mint condition. It is from the very earliest production and has the stamped squirrel above C.E. in an oval on the plain plated blade. As Tom Wittmann mentions, these early cross guards have the "flower" (like Alcoso always retained) on the reverse cross guard. This is a hold over from the 1919 pattern cross guards. So there are at least 3 different styles of cross guards used on " 1st model and 2nd model" Eick navies depending on the vintage.
All I can say is that in my experience, these early daggers display more variation than those from later production. Much to learn still IMO which is what keeps this hobby interesting.
Best, Rick
_________________________
Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments

Top
#330894 - 08/06/17 06:26 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: stratocaster3]
JohnZ Offline


Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 5162
Loc: Calgary
I have a double oval Navy 1 with rope band scabbard... no button. And naval depot marked.

I also have a Navy 1 with single oval TM and chased scabbard.


Attachments
Obverse.JPG

Reverse.JPG

Obverse Grip.JPG

Reverse Grip.JPG

Obverse Crossguard.JPG

Reverse Crossguard.JPG

TM & Depot Marking.JPG


_________________________
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.

Top
#330896 - 08/06/17 07:01 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: stratocaster3]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Hello Rick, thats very interesting and if you have the time i would like to see the scabbard you mention. I do believe there were only a handful of companies who were actually manufacturing navy daggers and generic parts in the Third Reich period and that there was a lot more interaction between companies than a lot of other collectors think, this could be how we often see mixed companies parts. Of course there are what we know to be and mostly see the textbook examples. Together with a friend of mine i have just written a book on identifying lightning bolt and hammered pattern Third Reich navy daggers which also shows intricate details that link smaller companies/producers to the larger ones like Eickhorn and WKC, its only a small publication of 86 pages so nothing on the scale of Wittmanns as it is specifically aimed at this subject (plug intended lol). Your right there is still much to learn about navy daggers, with updating and not many manufacturers they are not like some other types of daggers and I also find them very interesting to study.
Best Russ.


Edited by Russ1 (08/06/17 07:03 PM)

Top
#330897 - 08/06/17 07:15 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Russ1 Online


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 28
Loc: England
Very nice example John, it has the thick girth rings and rope pattern going all the way around the eyelets which are different features on Eickhorns rope band scabbards compared to WKCs.
Best Russ.

Top
#330914 - 08/07/17 01:27 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Russ1]
Wim Offline


Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 73
Very fine piece.


Regards, Wim

Top
#330989 - 08/09/17 10:34 PM Re: Eickhorn 1st Model Navy [Re: Wim]
Militaria hunter Offline


Registered: 08/08/17
Posts: 1
Loc: Illinois
Gorgeous piece, nice find
_________________________
Cheers,

Jim

Top


GDC Reference Library

-- German Militaria References --

Awards and Medals

3rd Reich Badges & Clasps
3rd Reich Orders & Medals
Imperial Combat Badges
Imperial Orders & Medals
Iron Cross 1st Gallery
Iron Cross 1st Spanges
Iron Cross 2nd Gallery
Iron Cross 2nd Spanges
Knight's Cross Gallery
Oak Leaves, Swords, & Diamonds
Order of the German Eagle
Ribbon Bar Chart
Shields/Cuff Titles
Award/Medal Maker Marks

Daggers & Swords

Dagger Id Guide
Miniature Dagger Id Guide
Dagger Blade Mottos
Maker/Distributor Marks
SA/NSKK Group Marks
SA/HJ RZM Codes
SA Transitional RZM Codes
SS RZM Codes
Eickhorn "Field Marschall" Swords

Insignia and Emblems

Armbands
Belt Buckles
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Imperial
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SA
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SS
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Other NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Military
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Government
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Police
Cuff Titles - Non-SS
Cuff Titles - SS
SS Sleeve Diamonds
Foreign Volunteer Arm Shields
Gorgets
Helmet Decals
Military Career/Specialist Patches
Military Services Waffenfarbe
Uniform Eagle Insignia
Visor Cap/Hat Insignia

Manufacturer Codes

Erkennungs Unit Abbreviations
HeeresWaffenAmt Codes
Lieferant & LDO Numbers
Optics Maanufacturer Codes
RZM M1 - Insignia & Badge Makers
RZM M2 - Metal Work Suppliers
RZM M3 - Party Emblem Makers
RZM M4 - Buckle Makers
RZM M5 - Uniform Accessories
RZM M7 - Edged Weapons Makers
RZM M9 - Tinnie Makers
RZM M11/12 - NSDAP LS Medals & Minature Makers

-- U.S. Militaria References --

Aviator Wings
Army Enlisted Collar Discs
Military Medals
Ribbon Chart
WW1 Division Patches
WW2 Army & Corps Patches
WW2 Division Patches
WW2 Phantom Division Patches

-- Small Arms References --

Autoloading Pistols 1892-1909
Beretta Pistols 1915-1945
Colt Auto Pistols 1900-1945
FN (Browning) Pistols 1900-1945
Luger Proof & Acceptance Marks 1898-1945
Lugers - DWM Production 1895-1929
Lugers - DWM Military/Contract 1904-29
Lugers - Rework & Non-DWM 1915-1945
Mauser C96 Broomhandles 1896-1937
Nambu Pistols 1902-1945
Walther 1-9, PP, PPK, & P38 1910-1945
Walther Sport/Olympia Pistols

WW2 Pistols
WW2 Rifles
WW2 Sub-machine Guns
WW2 (German) Assault Rifles
WW2 Light Machine Guns

-- WW2 Armored Vehicles --

Axis Countries
Armored Vehicles of Germany
Armored Vehicles of Hungary
Armored Vehicles of Italy
Armored Vehicles of Japan

Allied Countries
Armored Vehicles of France
Armored Vehicles of Great Britain
Armored Vehicles of Poland
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.S.R.


More to come ;)

Files/images © 2000,2010,2013 GermanDaggers.com
Who's Online
52 registered (odal, fisher, perka, Earl (Rick) Schreiber, Russ1, Karlsruhe, patrice, Chief, ChriSS, luca, Dave, Gary B., 777, Redbaron, Billy G., Krikke, sniper33, JR, Mikes73, GEKing, Thundahbolt, col, Mike (aka Byzanti), pjml, BAMA, diplo matt, Evgeniy, lmrobil, Jim W, Mac 66, Dickie, pvon, Dean Perdue, hal, ed773, Militarynut, polop, Nietzsche, goldfasan, AndyBurton, stingray, FrankUSMC, TRIPLE T, Michaelr, Andy Mraz, Duzig, dr73, Vern, jager, DONS, zet, Dutchman), 411 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod