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#330398 - 07/12/17 07:17 PM Not Quite an SS Dagger
Mr.Gale Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this but I couldn't find a category where it would fit so if it should be somewhere else, please move it.

This is a luncheon knife that belonged to the Officer's Casino (Officer's Mess) at Dachau, as inscribed on the back side base of handle in cursive "SS- Casino Dachau". The front simply bears a large SS runic symbol. The knife measures ~8 1/5" in length and the handle and blade are around 1" in width. Let me know what you think.







Edited by Mr.Gale (07/12/17 07:34 PM)
Gale Ensign

#330403 - 07/13/17 10:46 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: Mr.Gale] Offline

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 3489
Loc: Toronto ,Ontario, Canada
I think that it is outstanding quality of workmanship and the engraving highest quality cheers Ryan

#330475 - 07/18/17 09:24 AM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re:]
BAMA Offline

Registered: 05/11/11
Posts: 149
I would be very careful of any SS silverware. The market seems to be flooded with all kinds of old silverware that has had SS runes or unit symbols added postwar.

#330479 - 07/18/17 10:42 AM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: BAMA]
Dave Online

Registered: 09/09/00
Posts: 13191
Loc: Southeast
I agree with BAMA

The knife is most likely original. Note that there is quite a bit of wear to the detail of the handle but little to the SS runes or the pebbled background.

#330594 - 07/21/17 06:02 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: Dave]
Mr.Gale Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
Your right, it could be a phony as a $3 bill, but so could that shinny SS dagger in you display. :-) I'm not naive enough to think every WWII German item is real, on the contrary I don't trust any of it being real but I (we) do our best trying to weed out the honest from the fake. That said, I feel this is the real deal or someone has extreme skills faking this.
Someone mention that the runic wasn't worn like the surrounding area here is a close up and to me it looks just as worn.

#330631 - 07/23/17 11:16 AM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: Mr.Gale]
zet Offline

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 1781
Loc: Poland
Im not an expert but knife looks post war polish gerlach maker with stamp stainless .TB

#330643 - 07/23/17 04:54 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: zet]
seany Online

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 1449
Loc: england
Just more crap to try and rip off the new collectors.
Regards Sean

#330644 - 07/23/17 07:09 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: seany] Offline

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 3489
Loc: Toronto ,Ontario, Canada
dedication is certainly nice and well done and matches known period engravings (German) the quality is there comparative to known fantasy pieces as seen on some current well known "dealer" sites no one can be certain and this is the pratfall of posting on this forum. It becomes a badge of honor to "out" a fake and safe guard the collecting community. I wouldn't expect canteen pieces to be in silver. cheers and best, Ryan

#330649 - 07/24/17 09:40 AM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re:]
Jim W Online

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 3786
Gerlach is a Polish firm that produced the blades for the post war Polish military daggers. The fact that the label has "rust free" on it causes the poles, and me, to figure this piece is post war. In addition, it appears that the runes are inset instead of raised. It is hard to tell from the photograph, but if this is the case, the runes are inset, I would say post production work on the SS.

Just my opinion

#330706 - 07/28/17 08:22 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: Jim W]
Mr.Gale Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
The ruins are raised. the back side is engraved.

I contacted the auction house I purchased this from expressing my doubts about this item. Below is the response I got from them:

Affiliated Auctions & Realty LLC has sent you a message

This lot is deemed authentic, we would need written statements from professionals that state it is reproduction and the reasons that lead them to believe this.

---Original Message---
From : Ensign, Gale (Invaluable)
Sent: Jul 25, 2017, 7:09 PM
To: Wolfe, Angela

I purchased this with the understanding that is an authentic item. After receiving this luncheon knife I've showed to to several collectors and have learned that is is a post WWII forgery that was probably made in Poland. How do I get my money back

I might copy this thread and send it to them.
Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it.

Gale Ensign

#330707 - 07/28/17 08:30 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: Mr.Gale]
Mr.Gale Offline

Registered: 07/10/17
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
Also, I sent an email to Gerlach asking if they have any records of making this pattern. There website is Polish so I don't know if they can read my English email. If one of the Polish members would like to contact them on my behalf let me know. I'm not out a bunch of money but I hate being taken.

Gale Ensign

#331645 - 09/07/17 02:08 PM Re: Not Quite an SS Dagger [Re: Mr.Gale]
BAMA Offline

Registered: 05/11/11
Posts: 149


GDC Reference Library

-- German Militaria References --

Awards and Medals

3rd Reich Badges & Clasps
3rd Reich Orders & Medals
Imperial Combat Badges
Imperial Orders & Medals
Iron Cross 1st Gallery
Iron Cross 1st Spanges
Iron Cross 2nd Gallery
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Dagger Id Guide
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Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Other NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Military
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Government
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Cuff Titles - Non-SS
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SS Sleeve Diamonds
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Manufacturer Codes

Erkennungs Unit Abbreviations
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RZM M1 - Insignia & Badge Makers
RZM M2 - Metal Work Suppliers
RZM M3 - Party Emblem Makers
RZM M4 - Buckle Makers
RZM M5 - Uniform Accessories
RZM M7 - Edged Weapons Makers
RZM M9 - Tinnie Makers
RZM M11/12 - NSDAP LS Medals & Minature Makers

-- U.S. Militaria References --

Aviator Wings
Army Enlisted Collar Discs
Military Medals
Ribbon Chart
WW1 Division Patches
WW2 Army & Corps Patches
WW2 Division Patches
WW2 Phantom Division Patches

-- Small Arms References --

Autoloading Pistols 1892-1909
Beretta Pistols 1915-1945
Colt Auto Pistols 1900-1945
FN (Browning) Pistols 1900-1945
Luger Proof & Acceptance Marks 1898-1945
Lugers - DWM Production 1895-1929
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Mauser C96 Broomhandles 1896-1937
Nambu Pistols 1902-1945
Walther 1-9, PP, PPK, & P38 1910-1945
Walther Sport/Olympia Pistols

WW2 Pistols
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WW2 (German) Assault Rifles
WW2 Light Machine Guns

-- WW2 Armored Vehicles --

Axis Countries
Armored Vehicles of Germany
Armored Vehicles of Hungary
Armored Vehicles of Italy
Armored Vehicles of Japan

Allied Countries
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