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SS Chained Dagger for opinion #329656
06/19/17 05:10 AM
06/19/17 05:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
Hi All
I have an SS chained dagger in my collection and know absolutely nothing about them other than what I have read on various websites.
I would welcome any comments based on the photographs below.
If ive missed any photos of specific parts then please ask and I will take some more and post .
The chain is non magnetic and is missing the 2 end links which attach it to the clasp.
Scabbard is painted steel.
No maker marks visible on the blade.

23 photos added in the album below


Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329667
06/19/17 09:24 AM
06/19/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,211
Southeast
Dave Offline
Dave  Offline

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 13,211
Southeast
Srellis,

Welcome,

Your link will not open unless one signs up for a google membership so I removed it.

Please post photos, NOT links. Instructions are in the Welcome Forum.

Thanks,
Dave

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: Dave] #329669
06/19/17 10:09 AM
06/19/17 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
Thanks Dave

Do I need webspace somewhere to upload photos to ?

Originally Posted By: Dave
Srellis,

Welcome,

Your link will not open unless one signs up for a google membership so I removed it.

Please post photos, NOT links. Instructions are in the Welcome Forum.

Thanks,
Dave

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329671
06/19/17 11:38 AM
06/19/17 11:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
first few photos -

Attached Files P1050134.JPGP1050113.JPGP1050114.JPGP1050125.JPGP1050130.JPG
Last edited by srellis; 06/19/17 11:46 AM.
Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329672
06/19/17 11:44 AM
06/19/17 11:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
more photographs

Attached Files P1050132.JPGP1050131.JPGP1050126.JPGP1050128.JPGP1050129.JPG
Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329673
06/19/17 12:00 PM
06/19/17 12:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
more pics

Attached Files P1050119.JPGP1050120.JPG
Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329690
06/19/17 03:58 PM
06/19/17 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,060
Mid-South, USA
Grumpy Offline
Grumpy  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,060
Mid-South, USA
It is authentic, but missing the connecting links with the clip. The chain is probably made of nickel-silver, but could be plated steel. Reproduction links could be made and added by someone who does such work, or, perhaps, a custom jeweler. If you have the links made, be sure the original material is used and the links are shaped properly and grooved, as are the others. The chain appears to have ben heavily polished, removing the so-callled dark "burnished" background. There are varieties of chains and this one appears to be a "Type II," which had darkened backgrounds to the chain links. The paint appears to be original or a very old repaint, a good sign. It's hard to tell about the blade since there is only one partial shot of it, bit it looks OK in it. Nice grip, from what can be seen.

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: Grumpy] #329692
06/19/17 04:08 PM
06/19/17 04:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 154
Belgium/Antwerp
Krikke Offline
Krikke  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 154
Belgium/Antwerp
Cliff, that were exactly my same words in a private email to Steve.
You literly took the words out of my mouth.

The chain is a so called type B1.
Early full nickel. To bad it's that heavily cleaned.

Restoring it is, IMO something to consider here because the wotanknot is totally loose from the chain. You really don't want to loose that piece...

Last edited by Krikke; 06/19/17 04:14 PM.
Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: Grumpy] #329698
06/20/17 02:34 AM
06/20/17 02:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
Thanks very much for the information, very helpful indeed.
The chain is non magnetic so I will rule out the plated steel.
Sadly the top two links are missing.
There are no makers marks on the blade, is that normal ?
I will post up another photo of the blade
Originally Posted By: Grumpy
It is authentic, but missing the connecting links with the clip. The chain is probably made of nickel-silver, but could be plated steel. Reproduction links could be made and added by someone who does such work, or, perhaps, a custom jeweler. If you have the links made, be sure the original material is used and the links are shaped properly and grooved, as are the others. The chain appears to have ben heavily polished, removing the so-callled dark "burnished" background. There are varieties of chains and this one appears to be a "Type II," which had darkened backgrounds to the chain links. The paint appears to be original or a very old repaint, a good sign. It's hard to tell about the blade since there is only one partial shot of it, bit it looks OK in it. Nice grip, from what can be seen.

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329699
06/20/17 02:39 AM
06/20/17 02:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
Originally Posted By: srellis
Thanks very much for the information, very helpful indeed.
The chain is non magnetic so I will rule out the plated steel.
Sadly the top two links are missing.
There are no makers marks on the blade, is that normal ?
I will post up another photo of the blade
Originally Posted By: Grumpy
It is authentic, but missing the connecting links with the clip. The chain is probably made of nickel-silver, but could be plated steel. Reproduction links could be made and added by someone who does such work, or, perhaps, a custom jeweler. If you have the links made, be sure the original material is used and the links are shaped properly and grooved, as are the others. The chain appears to have ben heavily polished, removing the so-callled dark "burnished" background. There are varieties of chains and this one appears to be a "Type II," which had darkened backgrounds to the chain links. The paint appears to be original or a very old repaint, a good sign. It's hard to tell about the blade since there is only one partial shot of it, bit it looks OK in it. Nice grip, from what can be seen.

Attached Files P1050128.JPGP1050135.JPG
Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: srellis] #329701
06/20/17 03:42 AM
06/20/17 03:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 154
Belgium/Antwerp
Krikke Offline
Krikke  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 154
Belgium/Antwerp
Yes Steve,

these daggers came out of factory without maker logo's on them.
Occasionally we see maker marked blades in chained scabbards but that was just due of the fact that the SS man already had
a standard M33 maker marked model and was qualified after a while to ware a chained scabbard. He simply bought the chained scabbard only to reduce costs and placed his M33 model in the chained scabbard. So, maker marked daggers originally don't belong in chained scabbards.

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: Krikke] #329704
06/20/17 04:39 AM
06/20/17 04:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
Thanks Kris

Once again excellent information.

Regards
Steve

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: Krikke] #329888
06/24/17 11:19 AM
06/24/17 11:19 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,378
Michigan U S A
D
Dean Perdue Offline
Dean Perdue  Offline

D
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,378
Michigan U S A
Originally Posted By: Krikke
Yes Steve,

these daggers came out of factory without maker logo's on them.
Occasionally we see maker marked blades in chained scabbards but that was just due of the fact that the SS man already had
a standard M33 maker marked model and was qualified after a while to ware a chained scabbard. He simply bought the chained scabbard only to reduce costs and placed his M33 model in the chained scabbard. So, maker marked daggers originally don't belong in chained scabbards.


A additional explanation for a maker marked dagger ending up with a chained scabbard can be found in ss obergruppenfuhrer Fritz Weitzel's period publication The Celebrations in the Life of the SS Family where it is stated during funeral rights "the unit commander takes the dagger from the coffin and exchanges it with the dagger of a relative or close ss comrade as a sign of the continuing struggle and sense of duty of the ss".

Re: SS Chained Dagger for opinion [Re: Dean Perdue] #329917
06/25/17 08:19 AM
06/25/17 08:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland
S
srellis Offline OP
srellis  Offline OP
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Perthshire, Scotland

Originally Posted By: Dean Perdue
Originally Posted By: Krikke
Yes Steve,

these daggers came out of factory without maker logo's on them.
Occasionally we see maker marked blades in chained scabbards but that was just due of the fact that the SS man already had
a standard M33 maker marked model and was qualified after a while to ware a chained scabbard. He simply bought the chained scabbard only to reduce costs and placed his M33 model in the chained scabbard. So, maker marked daggers originally don't belong in chained scabbards.


A additional explanation for a maker marked dagger ending up with a chained scabbard can be found in ss obergruppenfuhrer Fritz Weitzel's period publication The Celebrations in the Life of the SS Family where it is stated during funeral rights "the unit commander takes the dagger from the coffin and exchanges it with the dagger of a relative or close ss comrade as a sign of the continuing struggle and sense of duty of the ss".



Thanks Dean, again great information.

Last edited by srellis; 06/25/17 08:20 AM.

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