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OP
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Scabbard fittings do not match solid cross guards. Number does not look typical . Runes button questions. Replaced? Eagle looks alright. vertical may be alright. Portapee for waffen ss on an em-33. Parts dagger I believe , that has been ginned up.
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Joined: Oct 2001
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I don't know how you can tell a lot from the photos. Touch a magnet to the scabbard tip and scabbard ring to see if it sticks. If so, they are likely nickel-silver, which would match the guards, which appear to be of the same metal. For a dagger to have been produced in 1938, it would be unusual to have nickel-silver furniture, although this producer used such, even though "RZM" marked. The hanger is correct and appears to be dated 1937, which would pretty much coincide with the blade date. The number stamping is very odd, as if the stamper was in his schnapps when he did the work. As can be seen, the 7 is upside down. It could be that he made an error and chose the 7 thinking it was a 1, which is the next number. Purely speculative. As to the portepee, many have been added postwar to enhance the dagger. All sorts of German daggers have added portepees to dress up their looks. This one looks authentic and of later manufacture, which would logically suit the dagger manufacturing period. It is not incorrect for portepees to be attached to M33 examples. The M36 ("chained") dagger was an optional purchase for officers, who could continue to wear the M33. if they chose. I don't detect the grip eagle having been replaced. The blade appears to fit the lower guard well - always a good sign. Clearer photos might generate further responses.
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OP
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Thank you very much for your help.
I will tray to attach other photos that i have more detailed.
Regards
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OP
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Touch a magnet to the scabbard tip and scabbard ring to see if it sticks. I checked this, and the magnet stuck on the scabbard tip and scabbard ring. Could you tell me something else by watching the new photos? thank you very much in advance for your help. Regards
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Joined: Oct 2001
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The scabbard fittings are plated steel, which is common for the 1938 time frame. Sorry, my earlier comment about them wasn't clear. Nickel-silver does not attract a magnet. The crossguards look to be nickel-silver, usually used by this maker. The RZM number, to my knowledge, has not been attributed to a single maker, but it is a marking of the period. The scabbard is likely painted, again, common for the period. The eagle inset looks factory installed to me and the grip appears to be of the era. The blade appears okay, but I have been out of the collecting mainstream for the past few years and there are very good reproductions appearing. However, the blade here shows a small degree of age and wear, which is a positive sign. This is especially noticeable at the blade shoulders, which has minimal corrosion and what looks like mild pitting. This is most often caused by condensation over time. I doubt a faker would go to the extent of faking this aspect. The numbers on the lower guard continue to puzzle me. I missed the upside down 5 the first go around. Usually, serial numbers were not stamped on guards of this late vintage, but they could have been. The appearance of the numbers reflects the correct style. They re seen in different sizes. The internal markings to the guards are questionable. The FB mark is not listed by Wittmann in his SS book (2003) as a "known maker." I'm not sure what the lower guard marking is, but it is not known to me. Someone here who is more knowledgeable of recent information on guard markings can be of more help on this than I am. However, both the blade and the grip appear to fit the grip very well. To me, without holding the dagger, it appears to be of the period. There are anomalies to these things that occasionally turn up. The one reservation I would have is the crossguards' internal markings. Hopefully, that can be cleared up.
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Joined: Oct 2001
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I did a little online research. I found a thread on War Relics wherein it is states "FB" is a marking of the Schuttlehoffer company and they are of the Third Reich period. It could be the blade RZM marking is of that company or the maker could have bought the guard(s) from Schuttlehoffer or a supplier.
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OP
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A million thanks for all the information you are giving me.
Regards
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Joined: Feb 2012
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The scabbard fittings are plated steel, which is common for the 1938 time frame. Sorry, my earlier comment about them wasn't clear. Nickel-silver does not attract a magnet. The crossguards look to be nickel-silver, usually used by this maker. The RZM number, to my knowledge, has not been attributed to a single maker, but it is a marking of the period. The scabbard is likely painted, again, common for the period. The eagle inset looks factory installed to me and the grip appears to be of the era. The blade appears okay, but I have been out of the collecting mainstream for the past few years and there are very good reproductions appearing. However, the blade here shows a small degree of age and wear, which is a positive sign. This is especially noticeable at the blade shoulders, which has minimal corrosion and what looks like mild pitting. This is most often caused by condensation over time. I doubt a faker would go to the extent of faking this aspect. The numbers on the lower guard continue to puzzle me. I missed the upside down 5 the first go around. Usually, serial numbers were not stamped on guards of this late vintage, but they could have been. The appearance of the numbers reflects the correct style. They re seen in different sizes. The internal markings to the guards are questionable. The FB mark is not listed by Wittmann in his SS book (2003) as a "known maker." I'm not sure what the lower guard marking is, but it is not known to me. Someone here who is more knowledgeable of recent information on guard markings can be of more help on this than I am. However, both the blade and the grip appear to fit the grip very well. To me, without holding the dagger, it appears to be of the period. There are anomalies to these things that occasionally turn up. The one reservation I would have is the crossguards' internal markings. Hopefully, that can be cleared up. The internal markings are noted in Ralph Siegert's book regarding SS daggers. As couple wrote on WAF and WRF, this is a very nice and very rare dagger to encounter. Much rarer then the 121/34's. The 121/38 is also pointed to the other side then the 121/34. Here's a link to such dagger at Lakesidetrader: https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=9020This dagger is exactly as is written by Paul Hogle in his topic. Very nice dagger which I would be proud of owning it in my collection. And, as I already said; your challenge now is to research the number of the SS-man. Thanks for showing.
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OP
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[/quote]The internal markings are noted in Ralph Siegert's book regarding SS daggers. As couple wrote on WAF and WRF, this is a very nice and very rare dagger to encounter. Much rarer then the 121/34's. The 121/38 is also pointed to the other side then the 121/34. Here's a link to such dagger at Lakesidetrader: https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=9020This dagger is exactly as is written by Paul Hogle in his topic. Very nice dagger which I would be proud of owning it in my collection. And, as I already said; your challenge now is to research the number of the SS-man. Thanks for showing. [/quote] Hello again Krikke! Your opinion is always very important to me. I asked Ross Kelbaugh about the numbering, and he thinks that it is simply an error in shaping the number in the dagger. He thinks 151415 is identifiable, but he has not yet told me any information about it. Regards
Last edited by jasete; 04/25/2017 09:18 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Total to date of producers bearing the FB foundary mark.
SA SERVICE DAGGERS :
Eduard Becker " Kolumbuswerk "
Richard Drees
Kuno Meiseenburg " Undine"
Arthur Schuttlehoffer " Asso"
SS SERVICE DAGGERS:
Heinrich Boker ( outside source guards observed )
Gottlieb Hammesfahr
Richard Herder
The Lower guard appearing to have a number 11 ..is unfamiliar and appears to be authentic. Some purists believe that if it has never been seen..it never existed and is fake. Never say never in this hobby until proven otherwise. Some amazing artifacts still continue to come out of the woodwork
The lower guard has all the correct detail expected of the materials used and the condition of patina.
(addendum : this information only that pertains to the FB Foundary and the producers supplied to including identifying the lower guard as an early Nickel type
Regards Larry
Last edited by Siegfried B; 04/25/2017 10:42 AM.
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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OP
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Thank you very much Larry
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