Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 193
Likes: 3
ado Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 193
Likes: 3
The Big Difference!!!

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
there are definitely more than one manufacturer of this pattern.. I think Mike has a decent example too if I remember correctly..

Ado, yes the newer example you show has cast signs too. ..
The ring that started this thread is an enigma itself.. Appears to have cast marks ,,but maybe they are not.. I can say one thing with certainly the Austrian hallmark in it is perfect, stamped and correct.And as far as I know that stamp has not been copied!... So a ring to hold to for sure.... Anyone else maybe get one of these in recently they can show please do....., Thanks , G.

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
Addo- whose ring is it you posted? Is it on an eBay or a forum sale site? Was it purchased? Do we know the seller?

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
Cricket

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
don't know anything about it. Was clearing out some folders and found this photo.. might as well add up here.. Mike,,did you ever end up with one of these or?

IMG_2676.jpg (65.39 KB, 224 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
Yes, that is mine. Unmarked, thin and pressed. I purchased this from Ed, I paid a high price- as everyone here in the forum knows now- and waited many months for it to arrive. (Not the sellers
fault- It just comes from halfway around the world.., ) I sent some more pictures to you G- this is not the same ring that addo is showing. That one obviously has casting balls.
If I recall correctly, G- u said my, formerly Edvards- ring here is a good original. If it is not, I will return it for a refund, as I said I paid a high price and waited a long time for it. Of course, if anyone has anything to add to the authenticity discussion of my ring, posted earlier in the discussion -please do so. This is not Monopoly money I am playing with here.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
Mike,, with all rings,,or most,,there was more than one maker.. Some just bought dies from a big company, made a 100 rings or so and when the die wore or broke that was it.. Some copied and produced their own.

IF this is very thin thats a good sign.. I see where the right lower half might be from a worn die.. IF the inside displays no problematic signs what is the problem?

Authentic rings are not cheap,,,sometimes you stumble upon one as you have before and thats a blessing.. Sometimes you gotta pay. The choice is yours alone. ..

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
Did the ring come with that dirt build up [if thats what it is ] on the forehead? or was it cleaned off before you bought it or you cleaned it off? or it still looks like this?
And,,,does yours have a hallmark stamping in band? ,,,, and one last question,,,did your ring come in a period box? and if so any name on it?

Last edited by Gaspare; 03/06/2019 02:01 AM.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
G- mine is the one addo posted on the second page. I sent you the better pictures, those were Ed?s
Pictures. Looks more like tarnish in hand. Back is much cleaner.
It?s a very thin ring. No stamp. No period box, just the one you see it in. The other one that Austrian,
That?s Aldos ring. I think it?s austrian. I think the one I got from Ed is a good German period piece, and quite rare. Sure sometimes you pay G, I know that and over the years I have found some deals and I have paid plenty too. It?s NOT an issue of paying that I am pointing to here- it?s a matter of authenticity. I don?t mind paying well for an authentic piece, all collectors in their heart for the most part I believe feel that way (outside the constantly annoying bargain hunting and tire kicking collectors- but they usually have collections that speaks to their scrimping). What I am attempting to ascertain here on this forum is this- is the latest ring posted by ado fake? Well then who is selling it? Who is buying it? This is only meant to help EVERYONE. As far as my ring is concerned- hell NO I?m not paying a bunch of money for a fake, and if is everyone gets to hear about it. Believe THAT friends!

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
So which are real and which are fake? Lets name the sellers too.
And the prices as well, for all of them. That seems to be really important to guys on this thread, so why not? If you buy a Mercedes it should be a Mercedes, right? Why should this be any different?

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
Until or unless the day arrives when at least a plurality of collectors and hobbyists display some basic courage, honesty, and common sense- to treat others as they wish to be treated, we will continue to see interest amongst potential or new collectors continue to precipitously decline until there?s no one left except one man, greedily holding on to a pile of partially repro/partially good items until his own death.
Naming sellers and marking items must begin immediately if not sooner if anyone wants to preserve any history at all for the next generation.

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 432
Likes: 35
Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 432
Likes: 35
Well said, Mike. I bought a lot of rings in a relatively short period years ago. I was lucky as a few big European collections came up for sale and I had cash to spare. I reckon that at least 90% are good. We (or maybe just I) don?t see collections like this for sale any more. Just the occasional ring. I do not buy SS Honour Rings because they are too expensive and too heavily faked.

Nowadays, I rarely buy a new ring. There are so many fakes, sometimes very good fakes, that I am suspicious of them all. Even my most trusted militaria dealer is starting to avoid Third Reich stuff as it has become such a jungle for fakers, frauds and thieves. And that isn?t just with rings. It?s everything!

I reckon that most of the truly authentic rings have been found and are now hiding in the collections of a few individuals, probably including several of the guys here. One thing that is great about this forum is that just about everyone seems to be bona fide - the expertise and knowledge of TR rings is amazing. The same cannot be said out some of the other fora!

Cheers,

Stephen

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 432
Likes: 35
Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 432
Likes: 35
Much more important, why do the apostrophes in our threads here keep getting replaced with question marks? laugh

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,781
Likes: 38
Offline
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,781
Likes: 38
Because the characters are being displayed in UNICODE font instead of WESTERN font wink


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
M
OP Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935
Likes: 31
The ring in question as posted by ado is currently on sale on German eBay. Ring in question

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
Personally I'd say that the OPs ring is a repo / fake.
Same pattern ring up for auction on the 15th november: Even this ring has some flaws

wingedskull.jpg (22.99 KB, 164 downloads)
wingedskull3.jpg (28.17 KB, 162 downloads)
wingedskull5.jpg (36.42 KB, 163 downloads)
wingedskull8.jpg (49.71 KB, 163 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
this early pattern ring has and always will be a problem.. Many simply don't like it because it does not match the advertising. Well, the advert is a line drawing. Many times the actual ring did not look like the advert. Some adverts were never even made in to production rings. IF not enough came in to make a profit it was not made.

In-between the wars there were firms that were trying molds for jewelry. [Here is a advert for a very early era mold] . Sand cast, investment cast etc. Problems with quality, material waste, time, manpower.. That with many having a experienced die cutter on staff already by the 3rd reich they went with the already proven simplicity and quality, a die and a press..



In this topic we also have discussion on casting faults, bubbles/dots etc. This photo shows a US wartime die. Worn and put out of service. But the last few rings it made must have come out badly. Any of us [me included] would see a ring with this fault in it and we'd say old but not WW2 old, or outright fake..

REVIEW5.jpg (40.36 KB, 143 downloads)
REVIEW4.jpg (26.95 KB, 145 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,100
Likes: 275
the real problem with the first ring posted is.... You show these 2 hallmarks to any experienced professional jeweler and they will all say the same thing. They are authentic hallmarks.

That is the early Austrian , later Sudetengau hallmark, ,,the content also another nice stamp.. Yes we have fake hallmarks today sure. But these are proper.. When seen many saw the marks and those sharper with access to the early adverts see the ring even has the same finish as what was being offered Oxidized Silver' [blackish/tarnished]...

I would still go with,,you have this and its nice n thin, clear hallmarks, no big flaws and you want the early pieces keep it. Its got to catch your eye and you must like it... Anyone buying any military regalia to make a profit is playing a dangerous game..

Please, anyone that see's other examples feel free to add here any time....

REVIEW2.JPG (64.87 KB, 141 downloads)
REVIEW.JPG (63.74 KB, 141 downloads)
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
Hi Gaspare, thank you for your knowledge! Some more pictures from the ring I posted:

019.jpg (66.85 KB, 123 downloads)
020.jpg (62.36 KB, 122 downloads)
021.jpg (38.29 KB, 121 downloads)
022.jpg (76.78 KB, 120 downloads)
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
I've made a comparison image. The ring I posted previous is mine, I made a bid on it. I really like the pattern. Will take more photographs of it once it arrives.

skulledwingcompare-min.jpg (151.4 KB, 129 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 193
Likes: 3
ado Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 193
Likes: 3
If that is the same ring that was from the recently auction it is original.
Same like the other two skull rings that got sold there.
All three rings hit the mark around $400, expensive yes but original as well.
The seam on the ring looks somewhat messed up but like i said for me it is original ring.

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
Hi Ado, Yes the ring was from a recent auction, together with a snake ring ( Frey & Co ) and another ring. I'm in love with this pattern, the first time I saw this style I said to myself that I had to have one ( even if it would be a well made replica ). Yeah I didn't know they were casted at first that's why I made my opinion about it being fake, but if it's casted then it's a totally different story. Your ring got some nice hallmarks, and not just the silverstamp.

One thing I've noticed among others is that the fake rings doesn't have that little extra wingmark on the backside ( check attached pictures ). (( Mikes ring seems to have that mark as well but the image has copyrights so I can't draw on it. ))

Inked014_LI.jpg (32.07 KB, 119 downloads)
Last edited by Mahler; 11/20/2020 01:16 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
I just received my ring today, I will take some pictures of it later on today / tomorrow! But I really like it so far, it's very thin! :)

Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
These photos are shot in macro.. and they're like 50% compressed as well.

IMG_20201215_181843 (1).jpg (113.98 KB, 48 downloads)
IMG_20201215_181910 (1).jpg (149.86 KB, 48 downloads)
IMG_20201216_140618.jpg (126.69 KB, 48 downloads)
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
some more..

IMG_20201216_122850.jpg (148.71 KB, 48 downloads)
IMG_20201216_123004.jpg (146.68 KB, 49 downloads)
IMG_20201216_122907.jpg (192.68 KB, 48 downloads)
IMG_20201216_140525.jpg (152.41 KB, 47 downloads)
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
M
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 79
Likes: 7
So, at first I thought these were casted / fakes. But when I have one in my hand it's a total different story, they sure are pressed, and so thin! these images do these rings no justice in my opinion. You have to hold and feel one to know what they are. I paid a pretty penny for this ring but I'm super happy with it :)

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Stephen 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,603 SS Bayonets
1,760,331 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,791 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Hiddensee brooch
by benten - 03/24/2024 04:13 PM
Latest New Posts
Personalized reproduction honor ring source?
by Simone - 03/29/2024 07:02 AM
F Dula with a twist
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 03/28/2024 09:29 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/28/2024 06:18 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Gaspare - 03/28/2024 12:34 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 11:30 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,652
Posts328,710
Members7,501
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (AntonGrabbe, atis, Sasha, Simone, BretVanSant, The_Collector, benten, polop), 598 guests, and 98 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5