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#324275 12/07/2016 11:34 PM
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When the Tom's wrote their edged weapon references, SS chain daggers were labeled into but 2 different categories. They were either Type I's, or Type II's. But over the course of time the collecting community came to realize that these 2 chain variations, didn't fit all of the configurations of M36's know in collections.

In 2010, author / collector Ralf Siegert wrote a reference which for the first time defined 4 distinct categories into which SS Chain daggers fell. And also broke those groups down into characteristics which defined them, and a general time line in which they were manufactured.

They are as follows:

TYPE A- Nickel constructed chain, with a septum in the nose of skull link.

TYPE B1- Nickel constructed chain, void of the nose septum

TYPE B2 Steel constructed chain, void of the nose septum

TYPE C Steel plated constructed chain, unique link characteristics and considerably different from the other 3 listed above.

All of these chains and their unique characteristics are broken down and easy to understand and observe close up, in Ralf reference. I think we also have them listed in the blog section of our website.

Here are some examples in the Meda Militaria collection:

JR #324276 12/07/2016 11:35 PM
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TYPE A, nickel construction with the septum in the nose of the skull link.

ABC's1 (Custom).JPG (87.45 KB, 419 downloads)
JR #324277 12/07/2016 11:37 PM
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Another TYPE A, belonged to an SS General

ABC's2 (Custom).JPG (119.85 KB, 416 downloads)
JR #324278 12/07/2016 11:38 PM
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TYPE B1. Nickel construction

ABC's3 (Custom).JPG (123.25 KB, 416 downloads)
JR #324279 12/07/2016 11:39 PM
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TYPE B2. Steel chain construction.

ABC's4 (Custom).JPG (92.51 KB, 414 downloads)
JR #324280 12/07/2016 11:40 PM
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Another B2. Steel chain, plated fittings

ABC's5 (Custom).JPG (94.85 KB, 413 downloads)
JR #324281 12/07/2016 11:41 PM
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And a 3rd example of a B2. Steel constructed chain

ABC's6 (Custom).JPG (102.42 KB, 412 downloads)
JR #324282 12/07/2016 11:42 PM
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TYPE C. Plated steel chain

ABC's7 (Custom).JPG (79.56 KB, 412 downloads)
JR #324283 12/07/2016 11:44 PM
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And finally, another TYPE C as in above.

ABC's8 (Custom).JPG (98.85 KB, 408 downloads)
JR #324284 12/08/2016 12:33 AM
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If you're going to talk SS Chain Daggers.....................you've got to know your ABC's :))

JR

JR #324289 12/08/2016 02:54 AM
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oh my god, that is spectacular lineup .
It's a very good reference ,thanks to share with us

stingray #324297 12/08/2016 02:52 PM
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Ivan,

The example which you have listed in the classifieds is a TYPE B2. The characteristics of it show a dagger that was manufactured during the end of edged weapon production, 40-41ish time frame. It has the following components for an M36 made during that time period:

Steel TYPE B chain
Machine stamped SS proof mark
Plated fittings, both scabbard and dagger
Aluminum grip eagle
Copper SS runes

JR #324334 12/09/2016 05:27 PM
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Dear colleagues! Here is my M36. From the above it is a type C?
Thank you in advance to everyone who responds.
Regards!
______________
Sergey

hcku1_croper_ru.jpeg (140.61 KB, 252 downloads)
jgAxX_croper_ru.jpeg (118.95 KB, 258 downloads)


VAT69 #324335 12/09/2016 05:29 PM
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.....

2221.jpg (128.31 KB, 234 downloads)


VAT69 #324336 12/09/2016 05:29 PM
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....

45OKY_croper_ru.jpeg (88.6 KB, 252 downloads)


VAT69 #324337 12/09/2016 05:29 PM
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Sergey Very Nice chained SS smile


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

JR #324338 12/09/2016 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: JR
And finally, another TYPE C as in above.
Dam JR this is a very nice M36:)


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Redsled #324339 12/09/2016 05:32 PM
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Thanks, Bob!
Regards,
______________
Sergey.



VAT69 #324341 12/09/2016 05:36 PM
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On the back of the blade an enigmatic signature. «Dein Rudi» - Your Rudy.
Regards,
______________
Sergei.

IMG_1328.JPG (49.06 KB, 224 downloads)
Last edited by VAT69; 12/09/2016 05:42 PM.


VAT69 #324343 12/09/2016 05:40 PM
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Indeed a Type C, Sir. You nailed it. Thank you for contributing to the topic.

Last edited by JR; 12/09/2016 05:41 PM.
JR #324344 12/09/2016 05:45 PM
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Thank you so much for the lesson!
Kind regards!
______________
Sergey.



VAT69 #324345 12/09/2016 05:48 PM
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I know Dave has a 36 with some "unique" characteristics. Perhaps we can get him to post it as well. It's a very special early SS chain

JR #324346 12/09/2016 05:52 PM
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Extremely interested!
Kind regards!
______________
Sergey.



JR #324347 12/09/2016 05:57 PM
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Its in the bank lock box, JR.

I never photographed it and have not had it out for some time. What is "unique" about it? Maybe I can go did it out.

Regards,
Dave

Dave #324353 12/09/2016 06:30 PM
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B
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I have been collecting for over 47 years. Guess Iam from the old school, a Chainedd SS dagger was just that, no designations, no abc. They did not even call it a M 36. Man how things have changed. I have three chained SS daggers in my collection, could not tell you if they are type A, type B, or type C. It is still to me a chained SS dagger.
thanks,
Bob


robert grant
Dave #324358 12/09/2016 06:52 PM
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That would spoil the surprise Dave. Post it up, it's a great dagger. Ive seen it.

JR #324362 12/09/2016 07:20 PM
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As noted above, its in the bank. Its in TW's SS book as well.

bgrelics #324367 12/09/2016 09:25 PM
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Now what Catagory does this fall in LMAO, Could they be one more type chain smile

_IGP9194.JPG (111.77 KB, 228 downloads)
_IGP9195.JPG (110.24 KB, 227 downloads)
_IGP9196.JPG (105.67 KB, 227 downloads)
_IGP9197.JPG (119.37 KB, 231 downloads)
Last edited by Redsled; 12/09/2016 09:32 PM.

My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

bgrelics #324390 12/10/2016 05:31 PM
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JR What magnificent Chained SS Dagger were they all yours:) All of them are in the great condition. This is a great post on the chained SS Daggers. A good lesson Post. smile


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Redsled #324391 12/10/2016 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Redsled
Now what Catagory does this fall in LMAO, Could they be one more type chain smile
Sorry about this post guys. Sort of in bad taste. I tried to take it off right after I put it on but the forun had went down. Im Bad , The devil made me do it


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Redsled #324451 12/11/2016 11:57 AM
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My addition here.

My type A.

1.JPG (154.21 KB, 237 downloads)
2.JPG (146.44 KB, 234 downloads)
Krikke #324452 12/11/2016 11:58 AM
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2nd addition here. As promised.

My type B1.

3.JPG (153.88 KB, 233 downloads)
4.JPG (149.72 KB, 233 downloads)
Krikke #324457 12/11/2016 03:33 PM
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2 very impressive early M36's. Thank you for the contribution.

JR #324458 12/11/2016 04:27 PM
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Great thread guys, lovely M36s shown !

some close up pix of the differences in the skulls would be very helpful as well wink



Regards Mac 66

Mac 66 #324462 12/11/2016 06:28 PM
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Two Great looking Chained SS Daggers Kris, They are both Magnificent smile


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Redsled #324505 12/12/2016 06:28 PM
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These initial production TYPE C's, at times came with some of the scabbard components comprised of nickel. In other words, they can be found with the lower chape, top fitting, or even just the throat, made of nickel. This style of M36 fell in the time frame of when the last of the nickel was going away, and the introduction of plated components started making their way into the scene. In all likelihood, 1937ish

These early TYPE C chain assemblies are usually found with thick struck links, and heavy quality beautiful plating. Here is another example.

minty C2 (Custom).JPG (123.62 KB, 205 downloads)
JR #324506 12/12/2016 06:30 PM
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2

minty C7 (Custom).JPG (112.74 KB, 203 downloads)
JR #324509 12/12/2016 07:40 PM
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cool smile


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Mac 66 #324667 12/15/2016 04:44 PM
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While there is quite a bit more to understanding the different chain variations than by just showing the skull link of each type, it's somewhat difficult to totally explain all of the characteristics in this single thread.

In Ralf's SS edged weapon reference, he certainly does and excellent job in breaking down the criteria to distinguish the differences and characteristics of each variation. We also have a shortened version of that in the blog section of our site.

I've shown the TYPE C already. Here are the other 3.

JR #324668 12/15/2016 04:46 PM
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TYPE A, all nickel construction, nose septum in the skull link

Chain types1 (Custom).JPG (99.88 KB, 147 downloads)
JR #324669 12/15/2016 04:47 PM
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TYPE B1, all nickel construction, no septum

Chain types6 (Custom).JPG (106.84 KB, 201 downloads)
JR #324670 12/15/2016 04:49 PM
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TYPE B2, steel construction. These can be found in a dark burnished background as shown. Or a lighter version which is also seen.

Chain types25 (Custom).JPG (92.63 KB, 200 downloads)
JR #324671 12/15/2016 04:53 PM
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TYPE B2, steel, with a lighter burnishing to the background of the links.

Chain types11 (Custom).JPG (95.89 KB, 197 downloads)
JR #324682 12/15/2016 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: JR

In Ralf's SS edged weapon reference, he certainly does and excellent job in breaking down the criteria to distinguish the differences and characteristics of each variation. We also have a shortened version of that in the blog section of our site.


Ralf S. did the book, but the only author of the certain chapter is (co-) author Mr. Sven Georgi and the certain classification (A, B1, B2, C) is exclusive from Mr. Sven Georgi.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #324683 12/15/2016 07:24 PM
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Here is one of my "A" daggers. The other one is better in condition and has the extremely rare (obviously very early) device etching. Sorry, have no pics of the other one.

A.JPG (95.72 KB, 180 downloads)
A_a.JPG (130.31 KB, 180 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #324684 12/15/2016 07:27 PM
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Here my B2.
Regards,

2B.JPG (113.06 KB, 178 downloads)
2B_a.JPG (130.85 KB, 180 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #324685 12/15/2016 07:35 PM
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Excellent examples Sir, and thank you for your contribution. Additionally, appreciate you adding to the classification information devised by Mr. Georgi.

JR #324686 12/15/2016 07:55 PM
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Still waiting for the moderator Dave, to post his up. Let the chant go up....DAVE......DAVE...........DAVE! :))

JR #324689 12/15/2016 09:07 PM
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Wotan Beautiful Daggers both of them, Maybe someday I will own one. But Till then I am getting a good learning Lesson Thanks To JR and all the rest of you guys with the Beautiful Chained SS daggers. smile


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Redsled #324695 12/15/2016 11:33 PM
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Wotan, thank you for your comment regarding my work in R. Siegerts Book about Mod.-36 SS Chains.
Hope it will help fellow collectors to classify her Daggers and Chains.

Regards
Sven Georgi


as Tom Johnson use to say:
"...the story is really theirs to tell" now we will do...
medes #325304 12/28/2016 11:06 PM
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It's tough to find a B2 in nice condition. Because they were made later in the 3rd Reich period, when quality metals available to edged weapon manufactures were all but gone.

This is a pretty decent one that came in today.

LPC1 (Custom).JPG (79.15 KB, 233 downloads)
LPC8 (Custom).JPG (77.15 KB, 233 downloads)
LPC13 (Custom).JPG (106.45 KB, 233 downloads)
JR #325310 12/29/2016 12:08 AM
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Yes it is JR Very Nice:)


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

Redsled #325311 12/29/2016 12:17 AM
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Sell the dog, Red. Put this one in your stash! :))

JR #325320 12/29/2016 10:16 AM
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Another nice piece JR. You're going hard lately. Thanks for showing.

Krikke #325771 01/15/2017 10:21 PM
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I don't know if the thread still exists somewhere. But to add to the discussion, when the first production series of the chained SS daggers was introduced here on GDC as a topic prior to TW's book as the "Type X" (having the nasal septum) it had some images that illustrated them fairly well IMO. With the one on the left the one I started that chain link discussion with, and the one to the right a contribution by the late Vic Diehl who used a technique of his own invention to photograph it. Written up in TW's book as the personalized SS Dr. Metz's dagger, it received recognition for that aspect, but not for its having the nasal septum type of chain link. Best Regards, Fred

SS chain 1st production series.jpg (31.95 KB, 122 downloads)
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Type A Chain link

Links2.jpg (72.88 KB, 108 downloads)
JR #325781 01/16/2017 04:07 AM
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Type B1

Links.jpg (63.52 KB, 106 downloads)
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