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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #315549
01/29/16 07:23 PM
01/29/16 07:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 101
Tennessee
kingtiger Offline
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Good subject. Houston Coates had some choice stuff like the cuffs and other police items at the Tn. Military Show last Thanksgiving. A really nice Kripo disc.
I bought a beautiful Japanese officer sword with original wooden scabbard, covered in leather for military use from Houston at the show.


Mark

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #319431
06/17/16 10:54 PM
06/17/16 10:54 PM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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Here's a couple tough customers.... Btw both are for sale or trade pm please if interested!

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319433
06/17/16 11:13 PM
06/17/16 11:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,411
N.Y. USA
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Gaspare Offline OP
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Mike,
,the tonfa wood?
,and the club a hard rubber?? What is the clubs length?

Last edited by Gaspare; 06/17/16 11:14 PM.
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #319435
06/17/16 11:27 PM
06/17/16 11:27 PM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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The tonfa is a monadnock p-24 s side handled baton, 24 inches in length... Made of a hard black molded plastic or rubber- about 3-3.5 lb I'd guess.., the club is a deep blue hard composite either a plastic or a rubber, with a black rubber washer- prob 4 lb or so, original leather carrying strap with it/ about 20 inches. These batons have seen real use!

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319616
06/24/16 09:02 PM
06/24/16 09:02 PM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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Love this one- about 10 inches I'd guess... Nice old wooden tire thumper... Also posting for sale soon! Heavy, lead filled baton with original carrying strap.., prob about 3.5-4 lb at least. It's a shot caller that's for sure!!!

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image.jpeg (75 downloads)
image.jpeg (73 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319639
06/25/16 06:18 AM
06/25/16 06:18 AM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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Oh man! Forgot to mention the come-alongs! Nice old set..

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319660
06/25/16 04:01 PM
06/25/16 04:01 PM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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nice Mike!! Yeah that sure looks like it was drilled out, filled [prob with lead] and a wood plug in it...
You know I hear all the time,,'those are for fish' , 'Those are for tires'..
Tire and fish clubs usually a bit longer..
- any markings on the club or the come-a-long?

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #319698
06/26/16 07:30 AM
06/26/16 07:30 AM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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Markings? Well I'm not sure it's got something under the lacquer but I can't make it out- and like a North Star like pattern on the "pommel".., on the shaft is red and black markings maybe it was someone's name?

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319701
06/26/16 08:32 AM
06/26/16 08:32 AM
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pretty sure the marks at the end is from the wood lathe chuck that held it..
That side peg is interesting. Does it go thru to other side?

Are the handles of the c-a-l aluminum or steel?

Last edited by Gaspare; 06/26/16 08:34 AM.
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #319704
06/26/16 09:30 AM
06/26/16 09:30 AM
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Yeah I couldn't get a good shot of the markings man regardless they were pretty worn.. Yep the other side has the "peg" as well- looks like same color material (wood putty?) as top and bottom,.,come a longs I will pull out and check I never really looked! Just thought they were cool and tossed them in the box lol!

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319720
06/26/16 11:26 PM
06/26/16 11:26 PM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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wonder what the side plug is for?

The handle material will help you date them. IF aluminum they are most likely postwar.

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #319753
06/27/16 04:45 PM
06/27/16 04:45 PM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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No idea on the side plugs- maybe more weight added? It's heavy as heck. I looked at the come a longs I think it's steel or another metal- too heavy for aluminum- but maybe something else? Didn't see any clear markings but will look again!

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #319769
06/27/16 10:09 PM
06/27/16 10:09 PM
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try a magnet.........

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #319770
06/27/16 10:33 PM
06/27/16 10:33 PM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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Ahh of course! Yes will do-

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #321693
09/25/16 12:56 AM
09/25/16 12:56 AM
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had a forum member contact me out of the blue and ask if I'd be interested in a 'paperweight'! grin

Of course I was and we did a interesting trade for a 'Sapper Glove' and a beautiful old Aluminum knuckles:

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321694
09/25/16 12:58 AM
09/25/16 12:58 AM
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they are a nice size and fit even my big hands!

Coming at ya!

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321695
09/25/16 01:03 AM
09/25/16 01:03 AM
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Also,, from my collection but haven't shown until now..

These are steel knuckles. They were ground / pick up in Germany in 1946... Don't know if they are Allied or Axis.

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012.JPG (72 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321696
09/25/16 01:05 AM
09/25/16 01:05 AM
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little beat up, but they have character!
Nice knucks, good size and still can get the work done..

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014.JPG (71 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321738
09/27/16 12:14 AM
09/27/16 12:14 AM
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I received this piece in a trade..

Not sure of time period. It is only the right one. I've heard that sometimes only one was issued. This could be calfs skin or deers. Very soft, smooth, yet strong. Called a 'Sappers' glove. From what I can gather this is pretty old. Maybe WW1, or 20s,,or [?]
anyway, enjoy the photos.

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003.JPG (59 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321739
09/27/16 12:17 AM
09/27/16 12:17 AM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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Not sure what is sewn in to the knuckle area,,maybe lead powder, or steel filings.

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321740
09/27/16 12:19 AM
09/27/16 12:19 AM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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This is not the thing you want to get hit in the face with!

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Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321743
09/27/16 05:55 AM
09/27/16 05:55 AM
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Mike (aka Byzanti) Offline
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Ain't that the truth! I would have guessed it for interrogation but I don't think that after a hit or two with this u can say much or are even conscious! Body shots would also be devestating- just as lethal in certain areas! Where did u find this G?

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #321780
09/27/16 11:17 PM
09/27/16 11:17 PM
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Byz.,,, A forum member noticed this topic and contacted me to see if I would be interested in the Glove and the Aluminum Knuckles!
A little cash, some trade items and we were both happy..

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321818
09/30/16 02:22 PM
09/30/16 02:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 511
North Carolina
D
Duzig Offline
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Hello,
Here's an item I picked up a number of years ago. The girl I got it from said it was her grandfather's who had been a policeman. Don't know anything about it other than that. I would think it's from the 30's or 40's but really have no idea. I also have a nightstick or two somewhere around here. The one item I wish I still had but it's been lost to the ages was a small black hard rubber truncheon which if I remember correctly had NYPD markings on it. I had gotten it from one of my Uncles years ago.
thanks for looking
Duzig(Bill)

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Dsci1774.jpg (70 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Duzig] #321823
09/30/16 04:09 PM
09/30/16 04:09 PM
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Nice piece bill! Is it weighted (leaded/heavy?)

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #321828
09/30/16 06:49 PM
09/30/16 06:49 PM
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- yeah that's a really nice one! , and in good condition too..

What is the length on it?

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321844
10/01/16 03:24 PM
10/01/16 03:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
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North Carolina
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Duzig Offline
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Hello Byzanti and Gaspare,
It is weighted. Almost feels like the lower part of it is spring and the top is weighted. I paid five dollars for it a number of years ago. Yes it looks like it was never used. It is about 8 1/2 inches long. Am I correct in thinking that it might be from the 30's or 40's? Thanks again for your comments and info.
Bill

Last edited by Duzig; 10/01/16 03:27 PM.
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Duzig] #321845
10/01/16 03:56 PM
10/01/16 03:56 PM
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Gaspare knows more than me about these, we're just both avid "tools" enthusiasts- but being unused is totally possible, and the leather is in great condition for the age- sure 30s or 40s imo is definitely possible, they just stopped making and using them later, but later isn't unheard of.... that being said I've seen near mint pieces from the 20s that look almost like this, heck we were looking at a spiked prison baton from the 19th century U.K. Last week with engraving and everything, it was in great shape so I think that this could have easily stood up to some years these were built for endurance and strength they aren't going to fall to pieces just like that but then let's see what G says but I like it bill
Nice piece man

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #321848
10/01/16 10:24 PM
10/01/16 10:24 PM
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you know its weird,,,on ebay you can't sell knuckles,,,but' you can sell these!..
Bill,,that was a great price even back then.. You can pull up 'Vintage leather Blackjack' on eBay and you'd be surprised what these things can go for sometimes..

The style of these really haven't changed,,you'll see adverts! But,there is another completely different pattern. The flat version,,or 'Sap'..

Bill heres an old advert that shows some the same as yours. No date here but IF I remember right its from the 30s at least,,probably teens..

Attached Files
billys2.jpg (45 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 10/01/16 11:27 PM.
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321849
10/01/16 10:44 PM
10/01/16 10:44 PM
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Here;s an old ad showing the flat and round together..

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club (2).jpg (44 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321850
10/01/16 11:17 PM
10/01/16 11:17 PM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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the flats are shown at the beginning of the topic too but figured I'd throw another on up..

I've seen some police uniforms that had a thin, narrow pocket made in to their pants either at the side of leg just right above the knee or one higher up by waist..

I spoke to a Policeman at the MAX . He said he was on a Texas police force and he was issued a flat one in the 60s! He said he loved it and it had hit many a elbow, shoulder, and head with his! It was a nice long, slim, flat one. I bought the story and the jack! wink

Attached Files
ZZZZZZZflat2.jpg (98 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321852
10/01/16 11:53 PM
10/01/16 11:53 PM
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I was just checking.. Looking at the ad I posted last page one of the rubber jacks have imprinted on it 'Metropolitan Police'!

I checked and the adverts are from the late 1800s!

So really if the blackjacks we own have been kept in good condition we really don't know what year they were made/from! Their styling really hasn't changed in over 100 years!

[cool knucks,,on my most wanted list!]

Attached Files
Last edited by Gaspare; 10/01/16 11:56 PM.
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #321853
10/02/16 12:32 AM
10/02/16 12:32 AM
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Quite possibly the coolest set of knuckles I've ever seen- that's straight happy jack Mulraney gangs of New York right there dead to the year. Bet u those were issued the summer after the draft riots, and because of them!

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #321880
10/02/16 03:16 PM
10/02/16 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 511
North Carolina
D
Duzig Offline
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D
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North Carolina
Hello
Byzanti, thanks for your info. The girl I got if from was around my age so I figured her grandfather would have been around the same age and era as mine so the 30's or 40's does make sense. That spiked prison baton sounds interesting, and deadly. Any pictures of that piece? Gaspare, thanks for those pictures and info. Mine does indeed look like the one's you show. Guess I did pretty good paying 5.00 bucks for it maybe 20 years ago or so. With the way laws are today a policeman would be in deep trouble if he used one of these on a suspect I bet eh.
Very interesting items you guys have, I think I'm gonna start keeping my eyes out for more items like these. Thanks again for all your help and knowledge. It is appreciated!
Bill

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Duzig] #321886
10/02/16 05:15 PM
10/02/16 05:15 PM
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I'll try to find those pix bill- and yes I do agree these are not standard issue today! The 19th century policing and fire fighting man that was rough work low pay (those things haven't really changed that much!) police and fire had to fight just to make it- not just the criminal element but other police depts and fire squads! NY had horrible overlap and mismanagement really just a mess of inefficient and ineffective systems by the mid 19th century- NY city cops fought the NY metro and borough police in all out brawls sometimes!! Fire squads were more like gangs in a lot of ways! generally speaking the police were used to just control the poor and working classes of the city- the idea of justice for the common man wasn't thru the police but maybe thru a gang or of course the mafia! Police work was for the tough guys who could handle the low pay etc- often newer immigrants that were kept out of other professions and opportunities! Andy militarynut also knows a lot abt ny policing too he identified an early leather police pistol belt slide that held maybe 20 bullets I think by just the contractors name! I think it was rosenblum but I forgot!

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #321897
10/03/16 12:55 PM
10/03/16 12:55 PM
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North Carolina
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Duzig Offline
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North Carolina
Byzanti,
Would love to see those pics & thanks again for that information. I have seen a couple of documentaries on the history channel about that era and as you say, the NY police were fighting other police etc. If my memory serves me correct I thought I heard on one of these shows that out of the gangs came the fire departments more or less. Interesting period in history for sure. Lots of interesting history in New York.
thanks again
Bill

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Duzig] #324051
12/03/16 10:34 AM
12/03/16 10:34 AM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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G
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was by my 'safe house'.. Had this case a long time and have had a bunch of different things in it...

Attached Files
ZZZZcase2.jpg (133 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #324054
12/03/16 10:36 AM
12/03/16 10:36 AM
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Gaspare Offline OP
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I know your all expecting a Tommygun,,,but they are a little scarce here in NY!! These,,guess they have some uses whistle

Attached Files
ZZZZcase.jpg (132 downloads)
Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Gaspare] #324057
12/03/16 11:24 AM
12/03/16 11:24 AM
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Nice meathook

Re: Tools of the Trade [?] [Re: Mike (aka Byzanti)] #324064
12/03/16 12:05 PM
12/03/16 12:05 PM
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Cool smile


My Name is Bob and I am a "RACE O HOLIC" AND "THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS"

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GDC Reference Library

-- German Militaria References --

Awards and Medals

3rd Reich Badges & Clasps
3rd Reich Orders & Medals
Imperial Combat Badges
Imperial Orders & Medals
Iron Cross 1st Gallery
Iron Cross 1st Spanges
Iron Cross 2nd Gallery
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Knight's Cross Gallery
Oak Leaves, Swords, & Diamonds
Order of the German Eagle
Ribbon Bar Chart
Shields/Cuff Titles
Award/Medal Maker Marks

Daggers & Swords

Dagger Id Guide
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Dagger Blade Mottos
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SA/NSKK Group Marks
SA/HJ RZM Codes
SA Transitional RZM Codes
SS RZM Codes
Eickhorn "Field Marschall" Swords

Insignia and Emblems

Armbands
Belt Buckles
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Imperial
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - NSDAP
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Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Other NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Military
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Government
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Police
Cuff Titles - Non-SS
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Gorgets
Helmet Decals
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Manufacturer Codes

Erkennungs Unit Abbreviations
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Lieferant & LDO Numbers
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RZM M1 - Insignia & Badge Makers
RZM M2 - Metal Work Suppliers
RZM M3 - Party Emblem Makers
RZM M4 - Buckle Makers
RZM M5 - Uniform Accessories
RZM M7 - Edged Weapons Makers
RZM M9 - Tinnie Makers
RZM M11/12 - NSDAP LS Medals & Minature Makers

-- U.S. Militaria References --

Aviator Wings
Army Enlisted Collar Discs
Military Medals
Ribbon Chart
WW1 Division Patches
WW2 Army & Corps Patches
WW2 Division Patches
WW2 Phantom Division Patches

-- Small Arms References --

Autoloading Pistols 1892-1909
Beretta Pistols 1915-1945
Colt Auto Pistols 1900-1945
FN (Browning) Pistols 1900-1945
Luger Proof & Acceptance Marks 1898-1945
Lugers - DWM Production 1895-1929
Lugers - DWM Military/Contract 1904-29
Lugers - Rework & Non-DWM 1915-1945
Mauser C96 Broomhandles 1896-1937
Nambu Pistols 1902-1945
Walther 1-9, PP, PPK, & P38 1910-1945
Walther Sport/Olympia Pistols

WW2 Pistols
WW2 Rifles
WW2 Sub-machine Guns
WW2 (German) Assault Rifles
WW2 Light Machine Guns

-- WW2 Armored Vehicles --

Axis Countries
Armored Vehicles of Germany
Armored Vehicles of Hungary
Armored Vehicles of Italy
Armored Vehicles of Japan

Allied Countries
Armored Vehicles of France
Armored Vehicles of Great Britain
Armored Vehicles of Poland
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.S.R.


More to come ;)

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