Tranlsate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)


Upgrade to Premium Membership

Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5
Topic Options
#157763 - 01/30/10 10:44 PM Re: SCHUMA Cloth - Boards & Patches
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 7

Buy the Book as a reference! "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen" - by Dieter Deuster -

If you have a general interest in the various POLIZEI branches (& especially if you are interested in the SCHUMA or the TeNo (Technische Nothilfe.) It really clears up a lot of previously unknown, or confusing, information - & the bibliography leads you to the original source, for a further detailed study of the regulations.

I bought my copy on German ebay [ ebay.de ] YES - it is in German, but you don't need to speak German to enjoy the tables (tafels) and photos. I'm slowly translating my copy, [ Babelfish! ] as I find this book to be that worthwhile!... Txs, Dave/dblmed


Attachments
7-Book-Deuster-PolizeiSm.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#157764 - 01/30/10 10:46 PM Re: SCHUMA Cloth - Boards & Patches
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
UKRAINIAN - SCHUMA SD Tunic - 8

Posted for Gordon Craig:

Thanks for your very interesting response. I have several books on polizei but not this particular one. I'll have to add it to my library.

I did a lot of research several years ago on the SCHUMA but that was before the days of the net and there wasn't alot of info avaiable. I have a few polizei uniforms and most of them are post war. I have a magazine that has some very interesting SCHUMA period pictures in it but can not find it at the moment.

I have been living in Budapest for the last three years and just returned to Canada at the end of August and I am still unpacking my collection and trying to figure out where to put it all.

Regards, Gordon
_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#157765 - 01/31/10 12:21 AM Re: SCHUMA Cloth - Boards & Patches
Gaspare Offline


Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 9209
Loc: N.Y. USA
Very interesting jacket.
Does the shoulder boards have the swastikas on them? From the photos it doesn't look like they do.. Recently I've gotten a hold of a set of schuma fire police, with no swastika on them. Everything else is exact, size, color, pattern etc.
Are there loops for 2 awards?

Love that sleeve shield!
Would love to see close ups of the collar tabs and that shield! Wink

Top
#227337 - 09/02/10 07:00 AM Re: SCHUMA Cloth - Boards & Patches [Re: Gaspare]
jeff Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 546
dave, looks like your over seas cap is late war ,due to the italian material ,it appears to made from. any "odd ball" maker makings ?? higher ups in the ss demanded that the tons of italian material sitting around be truck loaded pack to germany before that front was lost. most went to the camps & used for ss / police uniform items. usually with no marking ,or with the "ss-bw marking.
jeff h. (nice threads !!!!!)

Top
#239867 - 02/20/11 02:53 AM Black SCHUMA Boards - 1 [Re: jeff]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
Schuma Tabs Question

GREAT THREAD! Hello All!. Would this pair of tabs go together? They came together from the Vet's son.
From what I have seen in searching the forum the tabs should be a mirror image of each other, but is this
combination possible as well for any of the Schuma groups?

Thanks for any help,

John T. ..... email: militarybuyer@aol.com


Attachments
aSchuma-Tabs-John-T-FGDC.jpg




Edited by Dave L / dblmed (02/20/11 02:54 AM)
Edit Reason: Sp
_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#239868 - 02/20/11 02:55 AM Black SCHUMA Collar Tabs - 2 - Reverse [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
Black SCHUMA Boards - 2 - Reverse


Attachments
aSchuma-Tabs-John-T-RGDC.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#239869 - 02/20/11 02:57 AM NICE!: Black SCHUMA Collar Tabs - 2 Variations [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
Nice SCHUMA Tabs (!)

Hi John - Nice SCHUMA Tabs (!) CONGRATS !

From what I've read & from the Schuma photos which I've seen [granted, not that many!],
it seems that Schuma collar tabs were worn as identical matched pairs.

Yours, from a reliable Vet source, might represent what he gathered up from a supply
depot, or other source, IMO.

At any rate = NICE Schuma items. Thanks for posting them. Best, ... Dave L / dblmed
_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#239870 - 02/20/11 03:01 AM Rank-of SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei Plain BLACK TAB [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
Rank - of SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei Plain [No Tresse] Black Right Collar Tab

I was thinking about John T's nice Schuma tab, so I reviewed Dieter Deuster's "Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen." If you collect Police or TeNo or Schuma – this book is a 'must-have' Reference for your library, although it is written in German only. I've translated the TeNo chapter & part of the Schuma chapter – more to go.]

Using Deuster's Tafel SM 4, page 428, as a starting base, I've added some of the SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei ranking; John's blank tabs & real examples of the 4 shoulder board types.

John's SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei Plain [No Tresse] Black Collar Tab is a match for the Right Sided collar tab, of the rank of SCHUTZMANN. [Deuster shows the SCHUMA Schutzpolizei ranks [Green], but it is my understanding that the SCHUMA Sicherheitspolizei followed the same naming pattern.]

Askold has a valid point also, IMO. It would be quite reasonable that 'excess supplies' of the Blank Black Collar Tabs might have been supplied to SCHUMA units, so that the Tresse could be added locally for promotions. [Supply was certainly a real problem in the vast areas where the SCHUMA operated.] The Blank Black Collar tab could well have had 2 purposes – for the SCHUTZMAN rank & for use in future promotions.

The above follows the Dienstgradabzeichen of 1943-1945 [although I believe that it was also in use in late 1942 also]. The 'classic' 1942 SCHUMA ranking was by means of various series of a Silver Tresse "V" & Silver Tresse linear stripes (1-4) worn on the left lower sleeve, above the cuff. Interesting stuff !

SCHUMA collecting is a continuing study of history!
[Roman, Txs again for the variant Schuma Feuerpolizei Tab!] … Dave L / dblmed


Attachments
aSchuma-RANKS-GDC.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#239871 - 02/20/11 03:04 AM RE: Variant SCHUMA Fire Police Shoulder Boards [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
RE: Variant SCHUMA Fire Police Shoulder Boards

Part of the fun of SCHUMA collecting is finding the unexpected! Just when you think that you "sort of" have the Insignias of this TR organization figured out – something previously unknown pops up.

Thanks to a keen eyed friend [Askold Txs!] I was able to add a 'variant' type of SCHUMA Fire Police shoulder board set to the collection. It is a not seen before type for me – but perhaps other collectors have come across it? It's not shown in Dieter Deuster's fine book with the SCHUMA chapter, so it's a bit of a mystery yet.

As is Attached Below:

A - SCHUMA Fire Police Boards A – represent the 'Typical' shoulder boards attributed to this branch. The base cloth [top & bottom] is Police Green, with Fire Police RED used for the piping & the swastika.

B - SCHUMA Fire Police Boards B – represents, IMO an 'Atypical' / unusual shoulder board set, also consistent with the Fire Police. For B, the base cloth [top & bottom] is BLACK, with Crimson-RED used for the piping & ROSA used for the swastika. The overall pattern is consistent with SCHUMA boards.

WHY - the observed Color differences?:

(1) It could well be a war time expediency of just using the available cloth materials – since fabricating SCHUMA Insignia was not at the top of the priorities list; or –

(2) The central swastika ROSA faded due to the dye-lot or exposure to light [but I rather doubt this explanation; or -

(3) The SCHUMA B shoulder boards 'could' have been manufactured to designate a yet unknown Fire Police function [i.e. Airfield Fire Police vs Municipal Fire Police vs. Rural Fire Police, etc., bzw.]; or –

(4) Another yet unknown function?

What is your Opinion & Thoughts on these SCHUMA Boards? ….. Txs, Dave L / dblmed


Attachments
aSchuma-Fire-Bds-2-VarGDCs.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#240708 - 03/03/11 11:32 PM SCHUMA Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic # 1 [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
SCHUMA / Schutzmannschaft Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic

Thanks to Abigor for spotting this quite special tunic! It was sold on the website of Peter v Lukacs
www.military-antiques-stockholm.com/

Here is what the Dealer has to say about this SCHUMA tunic:

"...The tunic is from start a Police field tunic, six button front. Rough police green wool with four patch-style pockets and straight-edge flaps. Breast-pockets have pleats but lower pockets are pleat-less, all in true police-style. Tunic is fully lined in brown drill cloth and have clear size markings with a good size "98" chest size.

The field tunic have then been modified with a dark green Officers collar added to the tunic, which looks to be of Police issue as it have the same cloth on backside as the police tunics use in the linings. Also all belt hook straps have been removed inside.

At the Collar the tunic have Zugführer (Leytnant) Collar tabs machine sewn in place. The collar tabs are made of black badge cloth and is surrounded with twisted cord of the same variety used by SS and LW. On the collar patches there are a tresse sewn all around it, both collar tabs are the same.

At shoulder there are shoulder boards made of black wool tops and field grey backsides, the boards have a Officers aluminum/silver embroidered swastika at the middle (one can clearly see the paper underlay it have been embroidered over) and have the same aluminum/silver twisted cord as the collar tabs.

On the left arm there are a SCHUMA officers arm badge in woven silver/silver threads (flatwire) on black rayon backing, it is machine sewn in place. On the left breast pocket there are loops for two badges.

Tunic show quite a bit of wear and have nap wear all over but specially at the highlighted points, it have some field made mendings and staining outside as well as inside, it is a tunic which for sure have been worn in field for quite some time. It is a "salty dog." ..."
Txs, Dave L / dblmed


Attachments
Schuma-Zugfuhrer-Unif1-1k.jpg




Edited by Dave L / dblmed (03/03/11 11:39 PM)
Edit Reason: Color
_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#240709 - 03/03/11 11:34 PM SCHUMA Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic # 2 [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
SCHUMA / Schutzmannschaft Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic


Attachments
Schuma-Zugfuhrer-Unif2-1k.jpg




Edited by Dave L / dblmed (03/03/11 11:35 PM)
Edit Reason: Sp
_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#240710 - 03/03/11 11:37 PM SCHUMA Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic # 3 [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
SCHUMA / Schutzmannschaft Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic


Attachments
Schuma-Zugfuhrer-Unif3-1k.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#240716 - 03/04/11 01:17 AM Re: SCHUMA Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic # 3 [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Gaspare Offline


Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 9209
Loc: N.Y. USA
Yeah! for me the holy grail of jackets.. Better shot of the tabs please?

Top
#240850 - 03/05/11 09:53 PM SCHUMA Zugführer "Leytenant´s" Combat Tunic # 4 [Re: Gaspare]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
With regards to the authenticy of the SCHUMA tunic, Askold Posted:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forum /showthread.php?p=4526907#post4526907

Sorry to say, but this is a put together tunic (oh, big surprise with that dealer .) These tabs were sold on German eBay few months ago. Their construction is a bit shady so I passed on them. Someone bought them, and in few months, they magically turn into a tunic. The problem the dealer made, was putting extra piping around - such combination never existed.

I earlier asked about the backing of these tabs in question, as I am not that good with tabs:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=450655

& also NickG Posted:

I was intrigued by this tunic on Peter's site... Sold quickly I understand... So its been assembled-restored like this with what turns out to be questionable collar tabs...

Interesting that its in Polizei green wool, combat cut with proper Polizei pockets (chest pockets pleated, skirt pockets plain, as it should be) BUT with a modified (early armed forces style) dark green collar, something Not seen usually on Polizei tunics!
_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#240851 - 03/05/11 09:56 PM Schuma Officer’s M43 Field Cap [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
Schuma (Schutzmannschaften) Officer’s M43 Field Cap.

Thanks Nick & Askold!

Here is the Schuma Officers M43 Field Cap which the dealer ‘stated’ came with the previously posted Tunic.

What’s your opinion of the Cap?
…Txs, Dave L / dblmed


Attachments
Schuma-M43-OFF-2-Btn-1k.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#240925 - 03/07/11 12:25 AM Re: Schuma Officer’s M43 Field Cap [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
Gaspare Offline


Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 9209
Loc: N.Y. USA
Dave, the links to WAF don't work. Whereare they Police section? , regular uniforms?
All I can say is never say never with shuma stuff!
But if the jcket was spied somewhere else and reappeared with the 'extras' then thats a shame...

Top
#241526 - 03/15/11 05:15 AM Schuma Führer SD Bullion Sleeve Patch [Re: Gaspare]
Dave L / dblmed Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 1128
Loc: West Coast
Schuma Führer SD / Sicherheitspolizei Bullion Sleeve Patch

The BeVo version [using Aluminum/Silvered wire threads] is the usual patch for the Schuma Führer d. SD which is most often found.

It turns out that a bullion version was also authorized [Deuster, Tafel Sm3 & text] for the ranks of the Schuma Führer d. SD.

Attached are 2 examples of this uncommonly found Schuma sleeve patch. [DaveJ's nice example was 1st seen on Post 49 & I've been searching for another since seeing it.]
http://www.wehrmacht...t=234390&page=4

Gaspare - the WAF discussion on the TUNIC is in the POLICE Forum, up top in the Pinned SCHUMA Thread.

? HELP ? - I'm not getting "instant" email notifications of any postings? ... What box / item do I need to Click or Set?

Txs, Dave L / dblmed


Attachments
Schuma-Bullion-BLACK-1k.jpg


_________________________
[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]

Top
#320849 - 08/16/16 04:52 AM Re: SCHUMA Cloth - Boards & Patches [Re: Dave L / dblmed]
aardvark Offline


Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 1
Loc: Bedford, England, UK
Originally Posted By: Dave L / dblmed


Hello,

has anyone got the text that goes with these illustrations ?

"Eastern volunteers in the Wehrmacht, the police and the SS "

Top
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5


GDC Reference Library

-- German Militaria References --

Awards and Medals

3rd Reich Badges & Clasps
3rd Reich Orders & Medals
Imperial Combat Badges
Imperial Orders & Medals
Iron Cross 1st Gallery
Iron Cross 1st Spanges
Iron Cross 2nd Gallery
Iron Cross 2nd Spanges
Knight's Cross Gallery
Oak Leaves, Swords, & Diamonds
Order of the German Eagle
Ribbon Bar Chart
Shields/Cuff Titles
Award/Medal Maker Marks

Daggers & Swords

Dagger Id Guide
Miniature Dagger Id Guide
Dagger Blade Mottos
Maker/Distributor Marks
SA/NSKK Group Marks
SA/HJ RZM Codes
SA Transitional RZM Codes
SS RZM Codes
Eickhorn "Field Marschall" Swords

Insignia and Emblems

Armbands
Belt Buckles
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Imperial
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SA
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SS
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Other NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Military
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Government
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Police
Cuff Titles - Non-SS
Cuff Titles - SS
SS Sleeve Diamonds
Foreign Volunteer Arm Shields
Gorgets
Helmet Decals
Military Career/Specialist Patches
Military Services Waffenfarbe
Uniform Eagle Insignia
Visor Cap/Hat Insignia

Manufacturer Codes

Erkennungs Unit Abbreviations
HeeresWaffenAmt Codes
Lieferant & LDO Numbers
Optics Maanufacturer Codes
RZM M1 - Insignia & Badge Makers
RZM M2 - Metal Work Suppliers
RZM M3 - Party Emblem Makers
RZM M4 - Buckle Makers
RZM M5 - Uniform Accessories
RZM M7 - Edged Weapons Makers
RZM M9 - Tinnie Makers
RZM M11/12 - NSDAP LS Medals & Minature Makers

-- U.S. Militaria References --

Aviator Wings
Army Enlisted Collar Discs
Military Medals
Ribbon Chart
WW1 Division Patches
WW2 Army & Corps Patches
WW2 Division Patches
WW2 Phantom Division Patches

-- Small Arms References --

Autoloading Pistols 1892-1909
Beretta Pistols 1915-1945
Colt Auto Pistols 1900-1945
FN (Browning) Pistols 1900-1945
Luger Proof & Acceptance Marks 1898-1945
Lugers - DWM Production 1895-1929
Lugers - DWM Military/Contract 1904-29
Lugers - Rework & Non-DWM 1915-1945
Mauser C96 Broomhandles 1896-1937
Nambu Pistols 1902-1945
Walther 1-9, PP, PPK, & P38 1910-1945
Walther Sport/Olympia Pistols

WW2 Pistols
WW2 Rifles
WW2 Sub-machine Guns
WW2 (German) Assault Rifles
WW2 Light Machine Guns

-- WW2 Armored Vehicles --

Axis Countries
Armored Vehicles of Germany
Armored Vehicles of Hungary
Armored Vehicles of Italy
Armored Vehicles of Japan

Allied Countries
Armored Vehicles of France
Armored Vehicles of Great Britain
Armored Vehicles of Poland
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.S.R.


More to come ;)

Files/images © 2000,2010,2013 GermanDaggers.com
Who's Online
55 registered (777, col, Grumpy, robm1, luca, glock26, stingray, Patrick69, ROHM 44, WWII, romarios, Nietzsche, zet, Blondin, Mac 66, jm11, polop, Militarynut, Baz69, Janos, Paul, MarcGB, Seppi, Stirnpanzer, Billy G., Vern, perka, chris12559, frank, Earl (Rick) Schreiber, bushido, atis, Mikes73, Dickie, ado, Notaguru, ETF, Wade, Mike (aka Byzanti), Hellracer_1, pjml, Jonesy, johnnyrocket, Kevin (heers68), JonesCollectable, JohnZ, Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), Schlange, Gary B., jim m, edwardauskis, E Kohl, JR, GEKing, ed773), 523 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod