UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum ss degen

Hello,

I would like your opinion on this degen.

thank you for your help.

best regards

As far as components, it looks correct in every way.

From my own perspective this Degen has some serious "issues". The grip wiring is messed up, the roundel is not properly seated, and the knuckle bow may be bent. Assuming of course that a bent knuckle bow is the cause of the gap between it and the grip. With the top concentric ring of the grip itself a little too squared off to suit my taste, as I think it should be a little more rounded. None of which IMO would lead me to believe that this is an original instead of a conversion. FP

hi,

a friend says that is a police degen... with ss parts.

looks very bad for him

The only SS part would be the grip or grip emblem. Other than the difference in grip emblems, SS and police degens are identical in appearance, although there can be slight variations in style, as seen in the "Dachau" examples. Most SS degens have nickel-silver hilt fittings. This one appears to have plated fittings. I have seen such SS examples advertised by "well-known" dealers as authentic, though. To my eye, the SS emblem itself looks period. It could be a replacement, but I can see no indication a police emblem was formerly there. That can be corrected by a competent craftsman. The wire situation does draw one's attention. It looks like someone may have tried to remove the emblem. That could explain the wires that are distorted in the area of the emblem. It's also apparent the emblem is damaged, apparently intentionally. I have seen more than one SS officer degen where the runes button was not quite seated properly. If you look at this one, it appears to be flush to the grip at the top and bottom. Someone may have tried to pry it out, which could affect the fit. I think it's evident the hilt was disassembled at some point. Perhaps to replace the grip, maybe just out of curiosity. It could be the pommel cap was not screwed down all the way, leaving the ill-fitting look of the hand guard. Krebs made both SS and police degens, so the maker is no indicator of what this sword is. Photos rarely tell it all, making any evaluation difficult. A "hands-on" examination could disclose some things the photos do not.

The handle is not correct....cheers, Ryan

Grumpy,

Which is it?

"As far as components, it looks correct in every way"

Or what?

Dave

It does not look like a reproduction or that it has reproduction parts. In other words, if you break down each component (that can be seen), there are no "red flags." Since the entire sword is not depicted, it is not possible to evaluate the whole degen. That it could be a "parts" sword is possible, but, as well as can be seen, there do not appear to be any repro parts. The grip insignia, along with the fittings apparently being plated, are the obvious questions, in my mind. I think I covered all of that. Again, a "hands-on" might tell us more, but I suspect it would still be difficult to draw a definite conclusion about the grip. It certainly could be that an SS grip, in it's entirety, replaced a police grip, either during the period or thereafter. Personally, I would be leery because of the plating, although, as stated, I have seen plated SS officer degens sold by very well-known dealers.

Here are some additional visual perspectives of the overall grip area. Along with an observation that it’s not just the area around the emblem that is messed up. But that all of the grip wiring on both sides has been fooled around with. And that the multiple gaps in different areas (in my estimation) are not just the result of a loose pommel cap. FP

Fred, you may be right, but I have seen this style sword disassembled and the "D" guard can have some flexibility or slight "spring" to it. Tightening the pommel nut, if possible, can align the guard. As you note, the guard could have been bent outward to remove/install a grip. Obviously, we can't tell much from the photos in this regard. Yes, the wire is noticeably "messed with." That could be from trying to remove the disc, or from tampering to install the disc. It appears the insignia was installed before the wire - a bad sign. One thing that concerns me from your photos is the top of the wood grip. It is flat and the upper edge is not beveled or rounded. Compare the top of the SS grip to the shown police grip to see. There are repro grips around that have 14 segments, rather than the usually seen 13. This grip looks like someone sanded or ground the top segment off one of those to make it "proper," leaving the "flat" look to it. The more I look at the grip emblem, the more the damage appears to be from something like a screwdriver being pounded on it to make it set properly. The grip is "twisted" in the ferrule, not anywhere near properly aligned. All things, considered.I would have to agree that this degen has been tampered with and, as Drimmer17 notes, it is an altered police sword.

thank you very much !!!

the seller (profesional) would like 2500 euros for this degen.

I think that the price is a evidence... it's too low !!! suspect !

Gentlemen, this sword is not a "good piece" in that the obvious lack of fit quality to the handle ferule etc is laughable...whether or not the sum of the parts are period is not relevant. They may very well be....but the sword has been obviously and severely "altered and/or tampered with" and one has to ask why.....easy....Police officers' Degen $750 to $1200 real handle or sigrunen $500 to $1000 and presto $2000 to $2500 SS Degen instead of $7000 to $10,000 A good friend of mine purchased a real and quality SS officers handle via Manions back in 92 or 93 for the pricely sum of $150...put it on a Police Officer's degen, tightened the handle with vise grips as tight as it could go without damaging (tang had signs of tampering which would be evident if visible)and proceeded to show it to both Toms at 1995 Max show, they loved it!!!!...I know that he traded sword in 1997 for 25 Panzer medal which was $1200 or $1500 at the time...heck I could have "lived with it" for that price back then.they are "out there guys" Play safe...cheers, Ryan