UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum sollid red daimonds

sorry a wrong picture is posted
here some other pictures

jan, looks a good conditioned late hj knife with plastic hanger, also the rivits look unmessed with imo,

Does the daimond have any wiggle or slight movement?
looks like the daimond has been in there since production
with a tight fit?

Regards Mac 66.

First, I'm not taking sides - and I'm not an HJ specialist, nor do I claim any special expertise. But off and on I've been tracking this topic for a while now, and here are some pictures I saw back in 2008 (?) which I thought were interesting. With the bottom one being a broken "solid red diamond" - but is it solid? Because in the image I see what looks to me like pebbling, but the "pebbles" look like they are very small diameter pebbles. With the other three being an HJ knife with a broken grip. But in looking at the pictures I think that it got broken using it as a hammer, not trying to pry out the diamond. I also don't see any glue. But does it wiggle - who knows? To me it seems to be going to a lot of trouble to swap out a diamond to gain what kind of advantage with a damaged knife that has been both used and abused? FP

FP, thanks for your pix we also see many hj knifes with the accepted pebbled, fishscale pattern daimonds in this broken condition so the idea that herman posted rough conditioned hj knifes with solid reds is not a case for the solid reds being early fakes to restore a broken hj knife imo.

Regards Mac 66.

Great hearing the different view points on this subject.
I'm sure truisms will never change or alter whats accepted by the majority but there are interesting points being thrown out here for discussion.

Guys,

Do you really think that the obvious, recent fakes will make the old fakes become original?

Jan,

The HJ you post now, is the same one you started the topic with: it is not a new one.
You asked my advice about that knife before you bought it and I have told you that the hanger is good and scarse, but that the diamond is a fake. And now you hope to get that fake diamond approved here on the forum? Why do you think you got it from a dealar at that very low price?

Mac,

I rarely say this: but you seem a hopeless case... I repeat this for the very last time:

- Only bad conditioned knifes have the "full red" diamond because their original diamonds have been taken to upgrade superior knifes, none, out of thousands of knifes, are in superior condition. Are you truly not understanding that argument?

- I don't have to prove that the "full red" diamonds are fake, you have to prove that they are original. Otherwise, next I will have to prove that a green diamond is a fake: so please, do not turn things around!

- If you want to know how a wiggling fake diamond gets installed into a knife, without breaking the rivets: just remove one of your full reds and you will find out... or even better: get them x-rayed!

I am seriously considering to move this topic to the beginners forum or even to the humor section.

And I mean this!

Best regards,

Herman

Herman,what is this?
A diamond on the site from Lakesitetrader.

Herman, you never answered my question but said there were several ways to insert a daimond into the griplate without breaking the griplates or rivits, do you think i would be stupid enough to pry out a daimond on one of my hjs!!!

i have tried to insert a daimond into an old hj knife as an experiment a few years back with an origional fishscale/pimpeled daimond & it is impossible without destroying the 2 prongs!!!

i personally at the moment do not own a hj knife with a solid red daimond but have owned several in the past & all had good movement with no damage to the rivits ect so there must be some good about that fact,

you say people take a bad conditioned hj knife & take the nice daimond out of the griplate for a better conditioned knife?, this to me is total madness & something you made up in your head to shut us guys up just because you dont believe in solid reds, imo you find a lot more bad conditioned knifes with the accepted daimonds more than you find the solid reds,

if you dont want to add anymore of your opinions to this thread thats fine by me but please listen to other peoples ideas & opinions before condeming the good old solid reds

You call me a hopeless case for only trying to find out if solid reds are genuine or fake

what kind of person are you to judge me?, do you think you are far superior to us little
guys because you are a Moderator ?

To me you can be arrogant & very negative when its suits you sir
Regards Mac 66.

Mac,
Herman is a very specialized guy on the field of HJ daggers.
I have a very high regard for him.
Together we must share the knowledge,different ideas assist can.
Much information can help in this!
Regards
Jozeph.

Jozeph, i know herman has knowledge & is specialized in hj knifes
but it seems what herman says has to be true & thats it? end off story?, why even bother discussing the solid red daimonds on here as its cut dead from the start,

This is a discussion Forum in its final death throws so lets keep this place alive!!!

Regards Mac 66.

Yes herman it is the same dagger but i got the dagger today as you can see the first picture is out of the sales catalogue of Thomas Huss
I don`t want a prove on nothing a just started this topic because i see more of these daggers and when it is a fake so be it i like the dagger.
I think it is original and period made

janjan,
are the gripplates bacelite (fenol) or plastic?
BR
Jozeph

Please Mac and Herman don`t get personal we are just fellow collectors

Jozeph

The griplates smel like bacelite.

If a trader cheap offers,then I doubt a dagger.

So Jozeph you ownly trust a dagger when you pay top prices
I have seen daggers on dealer sites for top prices an the were
also fake
I`m just a lukky man

the bacelite gripplates are original.
I have open a ,,full red,, diamond......

foto

Hi Jozeph, can you show larger clear photos of the daimond?

my guess is this type of solid red is what i consider to be the fake bad quality type as shown in my earlier post.

Regards Mac 66

this is what I have

This is the dagger,with plastic hangers.
The diamond was destroyed with a hammer,i,ts for restauration.

foto

Jozeph, i cant be sure of the daimond with these bad photos but the hj knife & scabbard looks to be genuine.

C,mon guys lets see more hj knifes with the solid red daimond

Jozeph

is it possible to post better pictures closer to the diamond?

sorry,but has already been replaced.

Guys

I'm pretty sure that the members pins differ from the dagger pins, are these also considered to be fake?

wha do you mean member pis are also made i solid red?

I meant are the solid red membership pins also considered fakes?

Yes jan, here is some hj members pins with solid red,

many collectors do not have a problem with these solid red members pins


Regards Mac 66.

How about this one?

When they were used as membership pin the could be used on a HJ knive
or where these pins also post war?

Jan, a lot of hj collectors consider them genuine period member pins, so far nobody has brought up any evidence to say they are post war & the same goes for the solid red hj insignia we see fitted in hj knifes.


Regards Mac 66.

A few threads for you to look at that were posted on here a while back

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168246#Post168246


http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94951&page=1




Regards Mac 66.

Here is one HJ that the collectors of "exotic" diamonds will like:

http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com/catalogue/weapons/DAGGERS/hjdjbootgravity/26161.htm

Herman, these Green daimonds are definetly Fake!!


Solid/Speckled Reds Have a Much Better Chance To Be Origional imo

I,m sure there are advanced TR blade collectors on here that will agree!!



Regards Mac 66.

Hallo friends, the opaque diamonds talked about by mac66 are authentic acording to this thread here- http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f23/rzm-m1-42-hitler-youth-membership-badge-okay-6292/

Looks like that proof for them being period is going to be available so I would not be so quick to write these diamonds off yet

Hi Nork,

thanks for your helpful input!!

Much Appreciated,


Regards Mac 66.

Nork,

As said before: badges is a different story, unlike daggers they were produced until 1945!

But even here, seasoned collectors are avoiding these full reds: they are sold to newbies...

Concerning the HJ daggers (made until 1942!), as said before: you only find poor conditioned and fabricated HJ's that bear a full red diamond.

A handful of guys are desperately trying to proof that they are correct on HJ's... for how many years now?

But they have not been able to show a single unquestionable HJ knife with full red diamond...

And now I read everywhere that "Proof is coming..." so I suppose that they are fabricating one... or they managed to get one pictured in a reference book... to bad for the book in that case...

But to be honest, this is a very sad story... after 70 years of rejection by the collecting community, a few -not very senior- collectors want to get this full red rubbish to be legitimized and seem to convince the newbies, who have bought such a piece with a bad diamond... everything for the profit!

Where will it end?

Did you know that one big name dealer already sells green diamond HJ's for originals to the newbies?

With full warranty of course!



Best regards,

Herman