UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum E. Pack Etched Bayonets

Fellow collectors, I have over 30 Pack etched bayonets and would like to start a thread to share them with you.

I intend to show them in the following order:

By Pack catalogue etch number.
Ovals
Non-listed etches.

In some cases, I will have the same unit dedication on two different etch patterns and will devote some time at the end to show them together.

I hope that you will be interested in this. It will take me several days or more to do this properly. I will also, as much as possible, be indicating where this etch is pictured in Wayne Techet's great book, and my etched bayo bible, German Etched Dress Bayonets. I cannot recommend this book highly enough for anyone who wishes to collect etched bayonets.

John

Pack No 1 neutral etch is a large wide eagle design and can be seen on page 147.

Note that this example does not have the usual Pack spanner bolts, nor does it have a Pack TM. Instead, it has a distributor mark... maybe the distributor riveted this once he had applied his TM to the etched blade purchased from Pack.

The No 2 etch is the large anti tank gun.

This a double etched version, the obverse can be seen on page 153, and the reverse, a dedication to Anti Tank Unit 24, can be seen on page 167.

Now, the typical Pack reverse dedication etch is very plain, typically only the reference to a unit number, unlike the much more ornate and complex dedication etches found on the other makers.

This is on a short blade and exhibits the typical Pack spanner bolts. Also, note the large Siegfried Waffen TM.

The No 3 etch by Pack is the large AA gun and this example is a double etched version with a dedication to Flak Unit 22.

While not pictured in Wayne's book, it is shown on page 142 where the Pack catalogue is illustrated.

It is on a long blade and does not have the Pack TM, but does have a distributor TM, and the distinctive Pack spanner bolts.

The No 4 Flieger etch is one of the neatest etches that Pack made.

Look at the detail to the C31 airplane. This is a single etch, stag grips, Pack spanner bolts and the large Siegfried TM.

The No 5 Large Panzer etch is pictured on page 154.

This one is single etched, but has a dedication to Panzer Regt 5 as part of the design, exhibits the Pack spanner bolts and has the small E Pack TM.

This is not an easy pattern to find.

John, I always thought that you specialize on Eickhorns

Your collection is unbelievable.
Thanks for showing to us.

Regards
Stingray

Very Nice.....Thanks for the show!

There are two basic versions of the No 6 Infantry etch as pointed out by Wayne on pages 144 and 145 of his book. The two versions differ in the addition of extra oak leaves to the soldier's right and around his feet. The etch pattern shown in the catalogue is the No Oak version with what I call the single scallop front bookend.

The bayonet I am showing here is a short, double etch, stag gripped, spanner bolts with small Pack TM. It is shown on page 144 and the reverse dedication to Inf Regt 71 mot. is shown on page 167.

My second No 6 No Oak etch is a long, double etched, Pioniere hilted, riveted (Pack did not seem to use spanner bolts on Pi hilts) with small Pack TM.

It is dedicated to MG Regt 9.

The last No 6 No Oak etch that I have is a double etched, Pioniere hilted, riveted, small Pack TM item dedicated to Artillery Regt 57.

This, of course, like every No Oak version that I have seen also has the single scallop bookend.

Now, we get into the oak leaf added version of the No 6 etch as shown on page 145.

This is a single etch, long blade, single scallop bookend, spanner bolts and the large Siegfried TM. Nothing exciting and exactly the same as pictured on page 145.

Notice the additional oak leaves at the soldier's feet and to his right.

On page 146, at the top of the page, is a picture of the No 6 etch with added oak leaves and with a straight edged (Wayne calls it an arrow-like bookend).

So, of course, I had to find me one of these, and here it is.

It is a single etched, long, spanner bolt small Pack TM with the straight line bookend.

I found a slightly different version of this straight edged bookend on a double etched bayo.

It is a short, double etched, oak leaf, straight edged bookend, spanner bolts and large Siegfried TM.

The dedication is to a Wolfgang Kleineick and this was probably jeweler done. But, the bookend on this etch is slightly different from that on the long version that I showed above.

The last No 6 etch to show you is a long, double etched version that you can see at the bottom of page 146.

It is a double etch, with double scallop bookends, oak leaf added, spanner bolt, small Pack TM.

The reverse, dedication etch is to an Unteroffizier, Kurt Jung, and can be seen pictured on page 65.

That's it for the No 6's.

I will start on the No 7 tomorrow.

John

The No 7 etch by Pack is the small artillery gun. Wayne speculates in his book that the small picture series by Pack probably did not sell well, so they introduced the larger images as on the Nos 2-6.

In any case, this No 7 etch is a double etched, long blade, Pioniere hilted, riveted, small Pack TM version and dedicated to Art Regt 57.

The above No 7 small artillery etch and a No 6 infantry etch both are dedicated to Artillery Regiment 57.

Both are on long blades, Pioniere riveted hilts and show the small Pack TM.

The Pack No 8 etch is a small AA or Flak gun and can be seen on page 166 and 168.

The one I have to show you is a short bladed, double etched, spanner bolted version with the small TM and dedicated to Flak Regiment 73.

This etch is only pictured in Wayne's book as part of the catalogue from Pack on page 142.

I cannot show you this etch since this is the one numbered pattern that I do not (yet) have in my collection.

Wish me well on my hunt.

John

The No 10 etch in the pack catalogue is pictured on page 148.

On a long blade, single etched, spanner bolted with the small Pack TM. Wayne rates this pattern as scarce.

The Pack No 11 etch is a neutral etch meaning that it could be used for all branches of service.

It is pictured on pages 149 (without dedication) and 150 (with dedication) in Wayne's book.

The one I have here is on a short, spanner bolted and small TM version and dedicated to Inf Regt 11.

The next No 11 is a long, Pioniere hilted and riveted with small TM and dedicated to MG Battl 9.

I have two dedications to MG Battl 9.

The one above on a No 11 neutral etch.

And,, the other on a No 6 Infantry etch.

The third No 11 Neutral etch is a short, spanner bolted no maker marked single etched bayonet dedicated to Panzer Abwehr 24, or Anti Tank Unit 24.

I have two etches dedicated to Anti Tank Unit 24.

One is the above on a No 11 Neutral etch.

The other is on a No 2 Large AntiTank Gun etch.

I have only seen this item for sale once in the past 5 years, and I had to grab it as soon as I saw it.

Pictured in the catalogue on page 142 as the No 12 etch, this is a short blade, stag gripped, spanner bolted, single etch with the small TM.

One of the neatest etches produced by Pack.

The No 13 Pioniere etch is a large format picturing an engineering unit building a bridge.

My example has no maker mark, but does have a distributor mark, is on a long blade, double etched and with spanner bolts (too bad that it is not on a Pioniere hilt, eh?). It is dedicated to Pioniere Batl 43.

The last of the numbered etches in the Pack catalog is the No 14 small anti tank gun etch. Examples of the large one, the No 2 etch, can be relatively easily found vs this one.

The small versions of the etches probably did not sell well which means that there were fewer of them around to begin with.

This etch is on a long, spanner bolted bayonet with the small TM and is a single etch version.

Have you noticed that all of the small picture etches (the Nos 7, 8, 10, 12 and this one) all have the small Pack TM?

Now, that's it for the numbered etches from the Pack catalogue (I sure wish that I had a No 9 Small Panzer to show, but c'est la vie as they say in La Belle Provence).

Later, I will be starting back up with the unnumbered etches and ending with the Ovals.

I hope that you are enjoying this thread.

John

Pack produced this Neuutral etch designed for any branch of service. This etch pattern is pictured on page 147.

I have heard this described as looking a bit Japanese with the rising sun type bookends.

It is a single etch, short blade, spanner bolted model with a small Pack TM. The TM is a little different on this blade since it has the name E.Pack beside the blacksmith, whereas the other small TMs we have seen to date have the blacksmith positioned above the words E Pack.

Three of the biggest makers of etch pattern bayonets did not sell their etches to other blade makers. The three are Eickhorn, Puma and Pack. Holler and Klaas, the other big etch makers did sell certain of their etch patterns in pretty defined business relationships. To learn more about this, read Wayne's book.

So, one of the 'tells' when you look at etched bayonets is to see if the etch pattern and the blade manufacturer make sense. You will never find an Eickhorn etch on a Pack TM bayonet, for example. This is pretty easy for the big three, not so obvious for the others.

However, like any rule, there has to be an exception. In this case, it is the Pack Unnumbered Neutral etch that we just looked at, but it is on a Josef Hack marked blade. Can this be wrong? Not if you have Wayne's book. Look on page 194 and you will see this exact etch pattern but on a Hack-Werk Steyr marked bayonet.

This is a short, single etched, riveted bayonet. Note, however, that the rivets are offset as though they were on Packs, but using rivets instead of the spanner bolts.

Also note the neat Hack fish TM.

Another etch with no catalogue number is the communications crew etch shown on page 164.

This is a long, single etch, spanner bolted item with the small Pack TM.

It is rated Rare in Wayne's book.

On pages 66 and 67 of Wayne's book, you will see pictures of a special order Pack etch dedicated to a Flak Artillery School located in or around Rerik.

This is on a long blade, is single etched with spanner bolts and has the large Siegfried TM.

Neat, eh?

This last of the unnumbered and special order etches is thought to be one for the large cannons of the coastal artillery.

I was lucky enough at one of the shows (the SOS in 2010, I think) to see three of these together ... mine and two others.

All three were on long blades, single etched, Pioniere hilted, riveted and with the large Siegfried TM.

Well, we are on the home stretch with only the Pack Ovals to go from here.

John

John,

Your collection is always outstanding. And it's been a pleasure to watch it grow. I've been to Canada three or four times in my life. Vancouver, twice, east coast, once if I remember right. How about we do the SOS next year, if I can make it. And we'll see if we can get some other guys to go along with. I'll make it a point to get up to your neck of the woods to see your collection some day. Houston has a collection I'd love to see. I've got a thing for the honor bayonettes. Unfortunately, I only have one. It's a first war and doesn't bring the cash like a second war would.

Thanks for some of the previews I've been able to see. I can't wait to see your collection.

Steve

Steven:

I would love to have you visit and share my collection with you.

I typically try to do the shows. Right now, I have booked the MAX in Sept, haven't yet booked the SOS next year. It would be great to see you and the rest of the bayo guys at any time in any place.

And, thank you for your kind words on my collection.

I only have a few Packs left to show.

John

The Pack Oval Neutral etch is an eagle over a helmet pattern inside of an oval. You can see pics of this on page 156 of Wayne's great book.

This is on a long blade, single etched with spanner bolts and sporting the large Siegfried TM.

If memory serves me well, I got this one from Ron Weinand.

The Oval Bugler etch, seen on page 157, was probably designed for use by any service.

Mine is a long, single etched, stag gripped with spanner bolts and the large Siegfried TM. It is also a blued version which you can see pictured on page 85.

This one came from Ron as well.

The Oval Anti Tank etch is pictured on page 159.

The one that I have to show is on a long blade, single etched, spanner bolted with the large Siegfried TM. It also is a blued version, seen on page 87.

I got this one from the Etch Man himself, Wayne Techet.

John

The Oval Panzer etch is one of the hardest etch patterns to find.

The pattern itself is pictured in Wayne's book on page 155.

The actual bayonet that I am showing here is pictured in the book, German Clamshells and Other Bayonets, by Gary Walker and Ron Weinand on pages 62-63.

This bayonet is on a short blade, is double etched, has the usual spanner bolts and sports the small Pack TM.

The reverse dedication is to the name 'Hermann Weiser' and the lettering to this is in gold.

This, too, came from Ron Weinand. I think that the mortgage I needed to take out to buy this is almost paid off now

It is a real beauty and surely a one-of-a-kind. BTW, the Oval Panzer is my avatar that I have used on GDC for the past year.

John,i think you've the best Pack collection in the world.
Thanks for showing to us.

Stingray

The Pack C31 Oval etch is real purty.

This one is on a short blade, spanner bolted, single etched with a small Pack TM.

I also have a double etched version of the C31 Oval.

This is pictured in Wayne's book on page 66.

The one pictured and the one I have are the same. It came from Ron Weinand as well.

And, it is on a long blade, is double etched, stag gripped, spanner bolted with the small Pack TM.

The reverse dedication is to a 'Willy Langenberg' and is gold filled.

When you compare the two C31 Ovals, see the difference? The double etched piece does not have the C31 markings that the single etched one does.

Neat stuff.

The Oval Pioniere etch is seen on page 158 and the version I am showing here was purchased from Wayne.

It is a long, single etched, spanner bolted variety with the large Siegfried TM.

The very last, for now, etch that I have to show is a double etched Oval Pioniere.

This is a very interesting etch. On the obverse, it has the Neutral No 11 etch dedication to Inf Regt 3. On the reverse, it has the Oval Pioniere unit by itself.

It is a long blade, double etched, Pioniere hilted, riveted item with the large Siegfried TM.

I picked this little baby up from my favourite Canadian dealer, Paul Hogle.

That's it, boys and girls. Until I get more Packs, I have shown you everything that I have.

I hope that you are enjoying this as much as I have enjoyed showing them to you.

Keep well, my friends,

John

I owned this etch for a short while last year.

Originally from Paul Hogle, it is a long blade, single etched, spanner riveted item with the large Siegfried TM.

It also exhibits no markings on the fuselage, like my double etched C31. It is dedicated to Fliegerhorst Stade.

Now Wayne does show a Fliegerhorst Stade etch in his book on page 60, but that one is an Eickhorn etch. In fact, until I got this one, I didn't even know that Pack made this particular etch.

What happened with this one is that when I showed it to some friends (most of them here on GDC), I immediately got offers to move it. It turns out that the offers all came from one source, a big time collector, who absolutely wanted to have this pattern to complete a small grouping that he was working on. As an avid, some may say obsessive, collector, I know what it is like to be very close to completing a grouping and how important that is. And, since Packs are my second most favourite maker (I like Eick), I gave in and exchanged this item for a rare Eick etch, and a whole lot of good karma, I hope.

So, while no longer on the JohnZ wall, it was for a short while and it was pretty neat, you betcha!

John

When I decided to give up on trying to find all the Pack Ovals, I knew John had a start and only needed a few of the really rare ones (I had a few), so I elected to sell them to him so that SOMEONE could be close to finally having a complete set. I had tried, since my first work on bayonets, to assemble this set. I found it impossible and hoped that, with my additions, John would be able to accomplish this. It appears that he has the best shot in the hobby. As I told John at the time, that is the only reason I would part with the Weiser and the Langenberg Pack Oval pieces.

I was pretty surprised Ron sold the Weiser & Langenberg Packs myself but can see his reasoning. It's nice they're in John's collection now along with plenty of good company. I agree with Ray too, this is probably the best Pack (& Eick?) collection in the world. Unless there's some hermit hiding out somewhere?

Ron and Billy:

Thank you.

Outside of the Oval C31 Stade Pack etch that I owned for about 2 weeks, is there any other Pack Oval pattern that you know of out there?

John

It has been almost a year since I last posted here.. and that is because it has been a long time since I picked up a Pack etched bayo.

This one came from my friend, Janos, and I picked this up in my very recent trip to Budapest.

It is a double etched long blade with the spanner bolts and the large Pack TM.

What makes this a wow etch for me is the fact that it has TWO Oval etches... the Oval Bugler on one side and the Neutral Eagle over Helmet on the other.

More than likely these etches were either salesman's or retail store sample to show what Pack could do.

John

absolutely wonderful Pack collection John. As an item of interest I have a Pack # 6 etch pioneer with Inf. Regt 124 Braunsberg Ost/pr etched on the ricasso. This and yours to Art Regt 57 represent 2 of about 5 or so Pioneer patterns I've seen to non Pioneer outfits from Braunsberg. Apparently many of them preferred the pioneer pattern.

John,that's absolutely amazing what did you found,congrats

Regards
Stingray

Also of note is that my two etches to MG Batl 9 out of Heiligenbeil, one on a No 6 and one on a No 11, are both Pioniere hilted.

John

Barry,

I've noticed the same thing regarding unit marked Pioneer hilt bayonets & Braunsberg/Ostprussia. The one example I had (now with John's stellar collection) was such a piece.


John,

As always, it's a pleasure to see the length & width of your Pack collection. It never gets dull for me whatsoever.

It`s just getting tough to find new Eicks and Packs to add to what I have... I know they are out there, but they keep hiding from me.

John

Hi John,

Persistence has always paid off for me & undoubtedly it will for you. The real problem you face is when you do get them all, what's next?

Billy:

You can never get them all.

I have 36 different Pack etches, over a dozen of which are variations not listed in the Pack catalogue. I know of at least two variation etches out there waiting for me to find them, one of which is in the catalogue (the small Panzer).

And, then there are the unit dedications and the stag grip variations and the Pioniere hilted variations. I think that I am scaring myself here that this search will never end.

John

John,

That's an amazing collection already. Best of luck in finding the rest. Congratulations!

Thanks to Stingray of this very forum, I had the opportunity to acquire 4 very hard to find and very neat etched bayonets by Pack.

The first one is listed in the Pack catalogue as their No 1 Neutral etch. It is for all branches of service being non specific and only addressing 'My Time In Service'. It also boasts a large wide eagle at the centre of the etch. two things made this a must buy for me: the stag grips, which are not often seen on these etched bayos, and the fact that it is on a short blade. This is the first time that I have seen this etch pattern on such a blade.

There is also a shot of the two No 1 etched bayonets, the short and the long of it.

John

The second one shown here is also a short bladed, stag gripped etch. It is the No 2, large Anti Tank gun pattern and is a double etch, with a dedication to Anti Tank Unit 24 on the rear. It has no maker mark, but is definitely by Pack... the etch and the offset spanner bolts holding the grip plates are all Pack traits. I have this very same etch pattern, same double etch to the same unit on a plain gripped short bayo. I have only seen this etch pattern (the double etched version) on short blades.

Here are shots of the two No 2 etched bayos, side by each.

The third one pictured is the pattern #11, Neutral, for all branches, but this one allows for the addition of a unit dedication into the obverse etch design... so there is no reverse etch on these. This one is dedicated to a Recon Unit 4. And, it has stag grips. The combination of short blade and stag grips makes this item pretty unique just by itself, but the the scarce dedication to a recon unit made it a must buy. The blade has no maker mark, but is obviously by Pack, as you can see.

John

Over the years, I have owned 3 other copies of the Pack Oval Bugler etch. The Oval etches by Pack are the most beautiful and the most difficult to find etches by this firm (I exclude the ever elusive No 9 small Panzer, of course). All three have been on long blades and two had the added enhancement of bluing. Right now, the one in my collection is a long bladed, blued and stag gripped copy of this great etch. When Stingray offered me this version, I balked until I realized that it was a stag grip, but on a short blade. I have all of the Oval patterns made by Pack, but this is the very first short bladed one.

As I said earlier, the hunt never ends.

John

I recently received an e-mail from Ivan (Stingray) asking me if I have this pattern NO 11 Neutral on a Pioniere hilted bayonet. My quick response was that I already had a No 11 with a Pi hilt (dedicated to Machine Gun Battalion 9 to boot) so I wasn`t looking for another to a simple Infantry regiment.

He told me to look again since the etch differed from the typical Pack No 11 etch you see in Wayne`s book on pages 149-150. So, I looked again, and sure enough, it is a different etch pattern. More on that later, but here it is.

Not in great shape at all, but the etch and the Pioniere hilt make it a worthwhile addition to the JohnZ wall.

There is an etch pattern shown on page 135 of Wayne`s book that is on a Horster marked bayonet and looks a lot like the Pack No 11 Neutral etch. But, there are several differences. I have this etch pattern on an unmarked blade and dedicated to Gebirg Jager Regt 99.

The etch that I just received and that I show above is another version of this Horster pattern etch, but it is on a Pack marked blade.

This makes me think that Pack was the maker for both the Horster and the unmarked etches. It also makes me believe that Horster bought their etches from both Holler and from Pack, as you can see on Page 125.

Here are pictures of the three etches, from top to bottom, they are:

-unmarked blade, Horster etch as seen on page 135, Geb Jager 99
- Pack marked blade, Horster etch variation, IR 3
- Pack marked blade, No 11 etch MG Batt. 9

Note that the Pack No 11 etch is a short etch even though it is on the same long blade as the other two.

As Rowan and Martin`s Laugh In says, `Very Interesting`.

John

A little late to the show here but what a magnificent,superlative collection of E Packs you have John...thank you for sharing these beauties!

In my humble opinion the best Etch producer of them all and my personal favourite being the number 12 Mountaineering example...how rare is that!

Just great to see.

Thanks, Darren.

I like the No 12 Mountain Troop etch as well, although I also like their various Ovals.

But, frankly, my first love is Eickhorn.

John