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Denny Gaither #241288 03/12/2011 10:23 AM
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Hello Denny,

Woops, I didnt check your gun against the other very well then, sorry! There are even more kinds??? Since your post, I was searchin for them a bit, again without looking very properly to details or marks? There seems to be a book about "smallbores", by Jon Speed, like these? Do you know this book, is it good? I was also wondering, you probably need a permit to have these? Europe is very strict in arms, Holland even more so, I never had any intrest but, its fun to find out if people can own these here. Its a real gun then, with real bullets! Calibers work difrently for gunpowedered-guns? Anyways, your gun has totally won me over! Thanks again for posting. Still looking for KdF-shooting ...

Little question on the pouch, did 1915 pouches work during WWII too? I ~~think~~ so, but maybe, I dunno, bullets didnt fit, or .. I never looked at weapons very much ..

Oh and how did you do the inside-scrollbar-thing in the reply? Nice!

Bye,
KR


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Krullies #241474 03/14/2011 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Krullies
Hello Denny,

Woops, I didnt check your gun against the other very well then, sorry! There are even more kinds??? Since your post, I was searchin for them a bit, again without looking very properly to details or marks? There seems to be a book about "smallbores", by Jon Speed, like these? Do you know this book, is it good? 1. Jon Speed's book "Mauser Smallbores, Sporting, Target & Training Rifles" is an excellent treatise on German small caliber rifles. Another book that is nearing it's final stages before publication is written by Robert & Brad Simpson and focuses in it's entirity upon the German Training Rifle and it's variations. When this book is finally published, it will be the "bible" on this subject.
I was also wondering, you probably need a permit to have these? Europe is very strict in arms, Holland even more so, I never had any intrest but, its fun to find out if people can own these here. Its a real gun then, with real bullets!
2. We are very fortunate as no permits are needed for these guns in the U.S. and yes, it is a real gun.

Calibers work difrently for gunpowedered-guns? Anyways, your gun has totally won me over! Thanks again for posting. Still looking for KdF-shooting ...

Little question on the pouch, did 1915 pouches work during WWII too? I ~~think~~ so, but maybe, I dunno, bullets didnt fit, or .. I never looked at weapons very much ..
3. The pouch shown earlier is indeed, a WWI pouch for the German service rifles of the time. The caliber of the German rifles of both WWI & WWII were the same, so it would have been possible that it saw use during WWII. The standard WWII pouch was very similar in appearance.


Oh and how did you do the inside-scrollbar-thing in the reply?
4. The inside scroll bar will automatically appear when the length of the text within the quote box reaches a certain point.
Nice! Bye,
KR


Hello Karin,
Hope this answers your questions;
Again, I apologize for taking your thread in a somewhat different direction and hope it regains it's focus soon.

Warm Regards,
Denny

Last edited by Denny Gaither; 03/14/2011 08:23 PM.

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Hi Denny,

I like what you posted very much, and I hope you dont feel you got offtopic in any way? Your gun showed me something completely new KdF! And, I promise, Im not at all done with that soon! Already found something that has to do with your question, but, I need to do more homework. Also, I think, I may need to join up some shootingclub some future time, people need a permit here, for Kleinkaliber/Zimmergewehr even. Still, thats OK, Im not into that shooting thing, but, Kleinkaliber with KdF-marked gun, that might do it for me Still, I dunno, there seem to be some KdF-guns goin'round, but, I doubt I ever will hold one up close, not even shooting it, just see it for real. But who knows! And your pouche, by Salamander, also very at home here! In fact, I'd like very much to add something too, completely new to me, I found out about just before you posted your gun. Not long ago, I introduced it already here. But surely it deserves some proper attention right here. Also something to shoot ...

I learned I like photography. If you look here, you can search for "onboard camera with original leather case" on that page. Its a Zeiss Ikon camera, with all the KdF-markings to look very nice to me. Suddenly some time back I noticed another camera with those markings! But, it seemed to avoid me, it moved from auctionsite to sellingsite, never stayed long anywhere, but Google cache made it possible to trace the seller on some German auction thing, the camera disapeared from there already too. The camera was long sold, and the seller couldnt tell much about it. Some time later, by some luck, the seller mailed that the buyer never payed, so, it took some trouble and luck, but ...here it is! From Germany, a very friendly lady-seller put it up a box, together with a very lovely very old little Steiff teddy she had for sale.

When it arrived, it looked very bad and dirty, probably had been on an attic forgotten about for 70 years, and, I didnt know anything about it. The camera tells its a Kodak Box 620, so, that was a start. It seemed, these cameras have a nickname; Brownie Box. Some very friendly Brownie Box collector from Holland was very willing to help, he gave cleaning advise, and directions to open it, and he also has a site telling so very much about these cameras! Something new to look into, awesome! The collector never saw any of these either, so, by now, you can see this very camera proudly introduced here, and in detail here. If you wanna know a bit about these cameras, or, if you like pretty old cameras, go have a look at that site. This KdF-Kamera is only in the Dutch section still, but there is so much to learn about these!

This camera, is made in Stuttgart by the company named Kodak AG Dr. Nagel AG., and I think you'll find much info about Nagel on that Brownie-site very soon, so, check back there if you're intrested. The camera was produced from 1936 to about 1937, and has a Meniscus-lense. It would be truly awesome to shoot a WWII-time Volkswagen Käfer with it, no? And I do think, I may end up playing at Rügen with it someday, but, Im advised to buy a cheapo Brownie for that, and to leave this one safe and quiet on the shelve between some nice KdF-things. I 'll find out if it still works tho, that I wanna know about. Maybe even find a roll of film for it, to show next to. But Im still trying to open it. Its supposed to be eazy, but, Im affraid Im gonna hurt the camera, so, Im probably using too little force?

I had a bit of a hunge about it, and, so far, its true; this is truly unique, this camera! Who knows how many got made, these probably werent even expensive, Brownies sold for $1.25 sometime around 1905 in America, but, now, how many are there still with the KdF-markings? Were these sold, like the Robert Ley Kamera, on holidays, or trips? Or were these used to make KdF-promotional photoshoots, by KdF-photografers? Maybe used for photography-courses by KdF? Will surely keep looking for anymore info anywhere! I really think this is a very fun item, Im enjoying this so much! Never ever saw this anywhere else. This and Dennys gun, 2 awesome KdF-things I never knew existed. Hope you enjoy it as well, at least a bit.

Bye,
KR

KdF-Kamera_1.jpg (116.56 KB, 154 downloads)
KdF-Kamera_2.jpg (121.11 KB, 156 downloads)
KdF-Kamera_3.jpg (122.03 KB, 154 downloads)
KdF-Kamera_4.jpg (122.02 KB, 152 downloads)
KdF-Kamera_5.jpg (121.08 KB, 154 downloads)
Last edited by Krullies; 03/15/2011 10:28 PM. Reason: title

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Some more close-ups just for fun.

Enjoy,
KR

KdF-Kamera_6.jpg (114.07 KB, 154 downloads)
KdF-Kamera_7.jpg (121.5 KB, 150 downloads)
KdF-Kamera_8.jpg (120.66 KB, 151 downloads)
Last edited by Krullies; 03/15/2011 10:28 PM. Reason: title again

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- Beautiful!! -

Thanks for the great pictures.


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Thanks very much Denny! And my pleasure! 2 small KdF-cam-updates, the english info on the amazing brownie-collectors-site is updated. This pretty box you can find on this rare/wanted page and here in detail. Also, look at the Army Airforce Brownie Boxes on that page, very pretty boxes, for the US airforce, with US markings. But theres more .. imagine this; there's actually still a roll of film in this KdF-Kodak-Box, YES. If this aint thrilling then what is??! Im being supported in getting it out. Whats inside can go many ways, but surely dont want to break or ruin anything, or waste any shots by light, so, I'm still learning all I can and building up courage for it!

Bye,
KR


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K, that would be quite interesting for you if it had undeveloped period shots.

Here is another link to a site on Brownies. Lists some places where you could get film.
http://www.brownie-camera.com/articles/petelutz/article.shtml

I would imagine the carrying cases are not often found anymore. Nice and interesting collectible for you.

--dj--Joe


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Well I guess I'll really take this off topic. What was the original use of the small wooden box with drawers located behind the camera? It appears to have had metal tags attached to the front at one time.Very nice photography by the way!
Jim

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Originally Posted By: jim m
..What was the original use of the small wooden box with drawers located behind the camera? ..

Hi Jim!

If there's gonna be an off-topic-yell we'll share the pain The little cabinet, yes, its very lovely! I love it to bits, it displays awesomely! Its very old, but thats eazy to spot. What it was for? I truly couldnt tell, but I can now. Yes it had metal little plates on the drawers. There still are 3 of those plates, inside a drawer of the cabinet. I'm never looking there, it has all sorts of personal stuff inside I maybe can't just stick my nose in? But I asked, and there were the plates, and they say, in Dutch, Cinnamon, Nutmeg and Saffron, written by hand with a tiny paintbrush and paint I think, in such beautiful letters, its art. Very pretty! But the others are missing and my aunt took the remaining 3 off. So, was used for spices! Been for some generations in her family, a lucky survivor somehow. So now you know. I don't know anything about cabinets or woods, but I can check anything you want to know about it, if you're into cabinets? Thanks, for the compliment on the shots .. somehow I'm not very convinced myself, something wrong, but it all suddenly went fast with taking pics for the Brownie-collection-site, and I didnt want it to be there on show and not here! But Im still so stoked with the KdF-Kodak-Box very much, nothing ever looks good for it *LOL*


Originally Posted By: derjager
K, that would be quite interesting for you if it had undeveloped period shots. Here is another link to a site on Brownies... I would imagine the carrying cases are not often found anymore..

Hey Joe! Thanks for the Brownie-site-link! That too is a great site, when I contacted the dutch collector I didnt look at this one no more, but great to have both links here! I'm told film is scarce, but you can take a new film and roll it onto an old spindle? If you can find a spindle of an original film. Well, at least the spindle we surely have here, in the cam! And YES, if the film is used, oh my, the shots go on show here, and you surely are the very first to know! And the case, youre right about that! The original cardboard boxes are very collectable, but also these carry cases are very collectable. It looks übernice, all purple velvet inside. And ofcourse .. a superlooking KdF-Sonnenrad!

Bye,
KR


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Cabinets??
Here's one I built that's in my den Karin. It's a combination of walnut and rosewood veneer. The drawers house various pieces of my collection. I've been anamateur cabinemaker for most of my likfe.
Jim

2009_0106cabinet0001.JPG (111.34 KB, 99 downloads)
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That surley IS a great cabinet Jim! But get rid of the shoebox under it yes? Quickly! It looks better without it *LOL* Wow you're good with cabinets and all that?! Do you do cabinets to display tinnies in a good way? These get messy very eazily, no? And some tinnies surely deserve a good view at it, but also not in a dull metal letterbox-like thing, or just stuck up a piece of cloth in a frame, I dunno, there must be a way to show tinnies, with a bit of backgroundstuff maybe, make it look a period-display, but, protected behind glass, and not a big square uncozy displaycase likes shops have? Anyways, maybe I'm not making sense, but could be you thought of such a thing that I can't explain

So, to get back in KdF-tracks, here a nice Abzeichen to show. It looks like a Mitgliedsabzeichen, but its a tinnie, you can find it in Tiëste, under "Hessen-Nasau" on page 409 of 2010 edition in book 1. There are 2 versions; a gold metal and a silver metal. This is the gold. The pin I think is restored, or reattached (new solder???), or replaced? The gilding worn off, but its shows the KdF logo lovely. The shots are from back last year but look OK, so, didnt make new ones, the weather is too nice, off to enjoy that instead!

This Gau has some history that maybe is intresting to look at a bit. Early in the rise of evrything NSDAP there was much going on in this Gau. The book "So kämpften wir! Schilderungen aus der Kampfzeit der NSDAP im Gau Hessen-Nassau" gives some National Socialist stories about this. In its own history nice to read about the gettogethers and political meetings, where for exemple gold partybadge recievers Sprenger, Kuntsche und Müller almost got publicaly lynched by an audience in 1924. There is some awesome stuff to read here too about all of this but you really need to dive into Erichs posts a bit, he's into the politics and can tell much about this I'm sure! A bit of info on the So kämpften wir book here.

Gau Hessen-Nassau officially was formed in 1933, Hessen-Darmstadt was joined with Hessen-Nassau-Süd, and had the Gauleitung in Frankfurt am Mainz. Before 1933, from 1927 to 1933, there were 3 Gaue; Hessen, Hessen-Nassau-Nord and Hessen-Nassau-Süd. And from 1925 to 1927 it was just Gau Hessen. But the whole Hessen-Nassau Gaue history is more explained here. Hessen-Nassau had 5 KdF-Kreisen, in Bingen, Frankfurt, Hanau, Wetzlar and Worms. The Kreiswarten were in that order Goebel, Rußler, Trabant, Kotz and Gutting. The KdF-Gauwart was Heinrich Wantoch-Rekowski, he also was head of Gau Propaganda for the Reichs Arbeitsdienst.

Kraft durch Freude had some specified Abteilungen, Kasse, Presse, Propaganda, Reisen-Wandern-Urlaub, Volksbildung, Schönheit der Arbeit, Sport, Feierabend, Werkscharen and Volkwagen. This is very intresting, it shows a bit more about the organisation of things. The Volkswagen is interesting, so we can better understand why people after WWII tried to get their savings back from the company; Volkswagen wasn't totally independant!

Enjoy,
KR

HessenNassau_1b.jpg (117.07 KB, 179 downloads)
HessenNassau_2b.jpg (122.22 KB, 179 downloads)
HessenNassau_3b.jpg (113.09 KB, 180 downloads)
HessenNassau_4b.jpg (118.9 KB, 181 downloads)
HessenNassau_5b.jpg (120.81 KB, 179 downloads)

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Here a pin and a parade photo postcard for the 5. Reichstagung, in 1939, in Hamburg, held by KdF. The 5th Reichstagung was held from 21 july to 25 july, Robert Ley opened the festivities with a speech and presented the results made by KdF. Robert Ley also promised that in 1940, the 1st 10.000 KdF-Wagens would be ready and deliverd to customers. July the 21st was also the 1st day of the Reichswettkämpfe der SA in Berlin, where Viktor Lutze declared the SA soldiers "politische Soldaten".

Hamburg has many Hummel-Hummel-pins, but this is not one of these. There are 2 versions of this Veranstaltungsabzeichen; white and coloured. This is the annoyingly-hard-to-shoot-white version, but sun helped to make shadows for the closeup so you can see the text. Its a porcelain pin, 3 centimeters wide (1.2 inches). Both versions are on page 379 of the Tiëste 2010 catalogue book 1. Gau Hamburg had 10 Kreiser, KdF-Gauwart for Hamburg was Friedrich Hetzel. The shipyard "Blohm und Voss" in Hamburg was the yard where the Wilhelm Gustloff was made! More Gustloff and a shot of the Stapellauf of the ship from the yard here. Hamburg Hansestadt, is a major harbour in Europe. The weekend of about may 7 is the Havengeburtstag, a big feats every year, harbor and boats made many goodlooking Hamburg-tinnies, for exemple look for SA Gruppe Hansa, at Craig Gottlieb or German War Booty, very nice pins!

On the card, flags with swastika waving proudly on poles, over a group of people from Latvia. No more then 2 years later Germany would have occupied Latvia, and made into Ostland. The 1st mass murders of ethnic people by Germany began here. Also, the first Nicht Arische Kinder for the Lebensbornprogram came from here. If you want to read something that haunts at night, go dig into this scary stuff. Anyway, the Reichstagungs photocard, because of the Latvian people on it, very intresting.

The pin says "Kraft durch Freude Reichtagung 1939 Hamburg". Of the card, not only the photo is interesting, but also the back; its a special commemorative card, with a special postalstamp, marked and dated for the day. The postalstamp of the dancing couple in traditional clothes is truly lovely.

Enjoy,
KR

KdF_Reichstagung_Hamburg_1.jpg (116.34 KB, 166 downloads)
Front
KdF_Reichstagung_Hamburg_2.jpg (122.2 KB, 165 downloads)
Back
KdF_Reichstagung_Hamburg_3.jpg (121.02 KB, 165 downloads)
Closeup
KdF_Reichstagung_Hamburg_4.jpg (118.65 KB, 163 downloads)
Postalstamp

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And the card is nice enuff to show by itself.

Bye,
KR

KdF_Reichstagung_Hamburg_5.jpg (121.61 KB, 162 downloads)
Front
KdF_Reichstagung_Hamburg_6.jpg (119.01 KB, 159 downloads)
Back

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Very nice Karin!

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Thanks Erich Could use help on Thüringen versius Hessen-Nassau, yes I take the lazy way out but you know all about Coburg (Thüringen) and days are shorter everyday, so, I wonder, does Coburg have anything to do with what the book "So Kämpften Wir!" tells about Hessen-Nassau? Or is it just the same but other people, other district? Or is it not anything likewise at all and so a silly question?

Bye,
KR


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Krullies #242087 03/25/2011 01:30 PM
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Not KdF but something I couldnt let go, and have to make right .. Ofcourse, Coburg is NOT Thüringen! I was very wrong to have a quick look at the not detailed enougf map. In fact, Coburg touches Thüringen, but its totally a different thing! Coburg, was a monarchy before 1918, and duke Carl Eduard Herzog von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha ended it. The people decided not to let Coburg join Thüringen, so, instead, in 1920, Coburg was joined with the independant state Bayern. And then, in 1922, National Socialsm, got more popular in Coberg then anywhere else in Germany. In 1929, for the very first time ever, the NSDAP, won the majority in the election for city council. In 1932, Coburg was the first city that gave Hitler the honourable citizen title. So, Coburg, is where it all really started for National Socialists. Coburg, btw, was relatively undamaged before and during the war. The peoples decision to NOT let Coburg join Thüringen had a big effect in 1945; Thüringen came under Russian supervision, and Coburg, that was Bayern, was under Allied supervision. So, no, the book "So Kämpften Wir", has really nohing to do with Coburg, but only wih the NSDAP political battle to grab the power. See some amazing Coburg-stuff here.

KR


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Thüringen, it had to be next, after the above posts, no? Here you can already see a pretty heart-shape pin for Thüringen. The green symbol returns for Thüringen a lot, and I couldn't find anything about what the symbol means. Well then it struck me, very simpel, Thüringen, is the center of Germany! And the nature is very very beautiful, so, its Germany's green heart! Ha ha! Silly I really was looking for green heart symbols. Here another pin, that shows the green heart. Made from, maybe porcelain, or plastic, or pressed paper. Tiëste calls it Preßmasse, that means molding compound. Its quite big, almost 4.5 centimeters/1.8 inches in diametre. No marks on the back, only writing, I think a price, somewhere over the years?

KdF Gauwart was Alfred Rosenburg. He was a NSDAP-extremist. He was Reichsleiter der NSDAP, and from 1934 also leader of several NS-Verbände and did foreign affairs for NSDAP. Some of what he did is explained in the book "Kämpferische Wissenschaft", (Studien zur Universität Jena im Nationalsocialismus). Jena, is one of the 26 Kreiser in Thüringen (Altenburg-Stadt, Altenburg-Land, Arnstadt, Eichsfeld, Eisenach, Erfurt-Land/Weißensee, Erfurt-Stadt, Gera, Gotha-Land, Gotha-Stadt, Greiz, Hildburghausen, Jena, Langensalza, Meiningen-Nord, Meiningen-Süd, Mühlhausen, Nordhausen-Südharz, Rudolstadt, Saalfeld, Schleiz, Schmalkalden-Suhl-Schleusingen, Sondershausen, Sonneberg, Stadtroda and Weimar).

KdF did very well in Thüringen, and the theaters did many very big KdF-theater-plays and concerts. The shows could be so big and glamourous, cause in Thüringen they started first with using forced labour and slave labour. Thüringen is the Gau of the first (1933) concentration camp called Nohra, it was formed by "Verordnung zum Schutz von Volk und Staat". So yes, not only the KdF-Gauwart was an extremist but also the NSDAP Gauleiter in Thüringen; Fritz Sauckel. He was Gauleiter from 1927 to 1945. Even late into the war, KdF together with Gustloff-Werke and Fritz Sauckel-Werk organised plays and concerts in Weimar right next to concentrationcamp Buchenwald, on a large "suitable" terrain. The view on the camp was common knowledge to local people. Really quite bizar, no? Thüringen also was the Gau where the Gestapo was formed in 1934. It was the Gau of the Kirchenkampf, Gau of the the first jewish company that got stolen by NSDAP, and where all the horrifying actions by National Socialism against semitics and other "threatening" people began. Sauckel really was the ideal Gauleiter from Hitlers point of view. Remnants of housing for forced labour that wasnt put in concentrationcamps can still be found but they disappear fast.

Like all other German states, in January 1934 Thüringen lost the independance, cause of the first Gesetz über den Neuaufbau des Reichs, this made all states equal, and no longer independant, but all is one bigger country as a whole. You can already guess that the second Gesetz, put all states under rule of Hitler, when he placed important NSDAP-people in key places in every state. But Thüringen has a lot more of NSDAP-hitory, just browse this for exemple, search for "Thüringen".
Also, the NSDAP had big underground complexes, like REIMAHG Me 262. Also, the V1 and V2 rockets were built in Thüringen, by Mittelwerk, using slave-laborours from Buchenwald concentrationcamp, and also from Dora concentrationcamp (Dora-Mittelbau). If you start to look into Thüringen and the NSDAP-history of it, it gets more and more! And suddenly, a thing like this KdF-Stahlhelm, dont't look so unexpectedly weird anymore! Also, for some real nice Thüringen-pins and other stuff, look here or here. I can only add this maybe not special but real nice KdF-Abzeichen. You'd surely NEVER suspect any such stories behind this pin with the lovely green heart ...

Enjoy,
KR

Gau_Thüringen_1.jpg (122.21 KB, 124 downloads)
Gau_Thüringen_2.jpg (115.7 KB, 125 downloads)
Closeup front
Gau_Thüringen_3.jpg (121.41 KB, 124 downloads)
Closeup back
Gau_Thüringen_4.jpg (115.13 KB, 126 downloads)
Closeup heart

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Krullies #242097 03/25/2011 04:28 PM
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Karin, you are dead on about Thuringen being the "Green Heart of Germany". Doing a quick Google search will return lots of hits.
Here are a few pictures of a friend's .22 caliber DSM-34 training rifle that is thought to have been manufactured under the auspices of a Thuringen/Zella Mehlis consortium that was evidently set up in the late '30's. Not much is known why this group existed, or why training rifles were marked with this "logo" rather than simply using the manufacturer's logo such as Walther. Sorry I can't expound further on this subject, but wanted to submit these photos to show the "Das Grüne Herz Deutschlands".

Green Heart of Germany (Medium).jpg (53.55 KB, 121 downloads)
Green Heart of Germany 2 (Medium).jpg (59.72 KB, 121 downloads)
Last edited by Denny Gaither; 03/25/2011 04:51 PM.

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Thanks! Yes, the heart, took me a ssllooowww while to get it myself *LOL* Totally very amazing again, your rifle! Look at that!! Don't shoot at my little tinnies please! My, you must have a real arsenal there? Anyways I ~~think~~ when I searched for your KdF Kleinkaliber you posted last week here, I saw your DSM-34 in the Bundesarchives, here, used by Hitler Jugend. The archive doesnt let you link easy, or I don't get it, but, that link works for me, and you can also do a fulltext for "146-1981-053-35A", the shot is also in a photobucket of someone here. Thanks again for showing Denny That must be fun collecting, those! Just a ~~tad~~ unreachably hefty priced And also a tad officially not allowed overhere Or maybe, without firing trigger it is, but that would also spoil the fun a bit? How much of them do you have? Any more fun logos to show? You should make a topic for these! Or is there already? Im no shooter but I'm truly so jealous ... specially of that epic KdF-Anschutz!

Bye,
KR


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Karin, again a great thread. Here is the only book that I know of on the Battle of Coburg.

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Thanks Eric! I was secretly hoping you showed something Thüringen or Coburg! The 100th post in KdF! And, this 100th post is even about guns?!? Never would've expected that ever, for both things! Thanks to everyone who contributes and reads here!

Originally Posted By: Denny Gaither
...Here is my only KdF item; a 4mm JG Anschutz training rifle. Hopefully you can provide more information on the KdF shooting programs?..


Hi Denny! Well, the shootingprogram, actualy, adds to the Thüringen-post above! Coincidence, yes! The 1920s, lots was goin on in Germany, and early 1930s, Germany was in full relaunch, and people were inspired/told/teached to take care of themselves, their living environment, and also Germany as a whole. Kämpfen really is the word that NSDAP loves very much, and people were "educated" for battle readyness. Physical fitness was very important, and there was much attention for sports. Kraft durch Freude got to be the leading organisation for many of this and more, already told a bit here.

In the 1930s, they took much effort to make shooting and learning to shoot a big sport in Germany. The very first Reichsschießschule Für die Hitler Jugend was formed in Obermaasfeld, Thüringen. The yearbook for young people "Der Gute Kamerad 1937-1938" tells a bit about how from all over Germany they came to the Thüringen Reichsschießschule to learn how to handle guns and shoot. 2 chosen Hitler Jugend Mitglieder, came together from every Gau or district. These were called "Anwärten", and were educated to be Schießwarten for their Gau/district.

This ofcourse was all grouped around the area Thüringen, the landscape was very suitable for shooting. To make shooting more popular, and better reachable for more people evrywhere, a Kleinkaliber Übungswaffe was adopted. A decree from may 11 1938 made it official; it was the Wehrmann Gewehr "Büscher Sportmodell Kraft durch Freude", or also called Zimmergewehr. This gun looked very much like the 34-Deutsche Sport Modell (or 34-DSM 34) mentioned 3 posts back here, and, also like the Karabiner 98k. This K98k was the best multi-shot-gun, most precise, most liked by shooters, eaziest to handle and most reliable gun in all circumstances or target-uses. The Wehrmann and DSM guns, made the guns especially very much like the K98k. Die National Sosialistischen Gemeinschaft "Kraft durch Freude" made the Wehrmann Gewehr their training rifle. Below, a period Rundschreiben der Polizeipräsident an alle Schießsportveranstaltungen, here it got official, the Büscher-model was now the chosen Kraft durch Freude training-gun;



The KdF-Gewehr that Denny shows, is the Wehrmann-Gewehr. This was the basic modell. The next, slightly bigger modell, was the Wehrsport Karabiner. The diffrences that I get about these, are, the shoulderstrap is fastened a bit diffrent, and, you can put a bajonet on the Wehrsport Karabiner, it has a fastener for a Seitengewehr. Also the sliding visor is difrent. There are many many other internal things, that I don't know how to explain, cause I don't shoot, but I can try if anyone wants to know what I found out so far. But, basically, both guns, work and are the same. Below, a period ad for the guns. You can see where the Seitengewehr can be put on the Wehrsport Karabiner.



Both the Wehrmann Gewehr and the Wehrsport Karabiner rifles got made by company called "Waffenwerk Julius Gottfried Anschütz Germania Aktiengesellschaft, Zella Mehlis", or short J.G. Anschutz. Zella Mehlis, is a city in Thüringen, so right where the Reichsshießschule began. Also another company made a gun very much like the Büscher Sportmodell; Berlin-Suhler-Waffen- und Fahrzeugwerken, or BSW. This some time later got to be the Gustloff-werke, that we also already saw in Thüringen. BSW made the "W 625 Z" gun.



The Kraft durch Freude Büscher gun realy made training for using the loved K98k very popular and very eazy. No longer you need a suitable area with safeties to learn to shoot and to practise shooting a real gun. The Anschutz gun can be used in any room, anywhere. Ofcourse you need suitable targets to shoot at, and 4mm bullets. Below, 2 period ads for targets and holders;





Maybe Robert and Brad Simpsons new book will know, like Denny said, but, very many of these KdF guns got destroyed, after WWII, not even recycled. Too bad, cause the wood used was very good quality walnut-tree-wood, and the metals where quality forged, shaped and made. So, its hardly likely, Ill ever own any gun. But, if I ever will, it will be one of these KdF Anschütze, and, if I ever will, I should know at least a basic bit about them, and now I do Thanks again Denny for showing your gun! Will see if I can find anything on your Waffengenossenschaft?

Bye,
KR


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Karin,
Thank you so much for sharing this information; especially the scanned pictures. I have not before seen the 1st document announcing the Büscher Sportmodell K.d.F. The JGA Wehrsport Karabiner was their attempt to create a training rifle closer to the actual German service rifle, the K98-k. The official version was called the Klein Kaliber Wehrsportgewehr or KKW. I believe the firms of Mauser, Walther and BSW/Gustloff were the only officially approved companies to manufacture the KKW, so JGA created this knock-off.
Regarding BSW, they originally started off as the Simson company, but were taken over by the NSDAP along with so many other Jewish-owned companies. Later, BSW was merged with Gustloff. Prior to BSW's manufacture of the DSM-34 & the KKW, they were marketing their own line of training rifles known as the W625 series. These were the W625, W625A, W625B, W625C, W625L - all .22 caliber and the W625Z which was 4mm. Thanks again for the picture of the very rare W625Z rifle. Is this also from the Akah catalogue?
I must say, your researching skills are superb! I am going to forward this thread to some friends who are much more knowledgeable than I in these matters. Hopefully they will visit and add to the discussion. Thanks again....

Handbuch der SA 1939 pg 165 (Medium).jpg (85.68 KB, 218 downloads)
This picture is taken from der Handbuch der SA 1939 and shows a cross section drawing of the Klein Kaliber Wehrsportgewehr.
scan0001 (Medium).jpg (34.96 KB, 216 downloads)
Here are some additional manufacturers of German training rifles. There were others.

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Thanks Denny! Nice your scans too! I still like your KdF and your other Grüne Herz best, but, would love to see a Gustloff-Werke gun! Yeah there were other companies that made Übungswaffen, but, I wanted to stick to Kraft durch Freude, and, so focus on the proud KdF-Anschütz you show, and just stay around that gun a little, and not drift away too far, to stay on topic. A thing like Gustloff-Werke is also very interesting, also to learn about what is behind that name, would be handy if a sortof subtopic of things was possible? A new topic beside this, will get behind, pushed back, lost, I think? Oh and pics in text, you can only attach them, not put them inside a post-text, from within GDC? Or how do you do that?

Anyhow, Übungswaffen, there surely was many other guns made by other manufacturers too like the Wehrmann Kaliber 8.15x46R, DWJ6/88, DWJ7/88, DWJ10/88 that was more of a tube to stick into the K98k barrel to make it a smaller calibre, also barrels to stick into Luger pistols like DWJ2 and DWJ3/89 to make these shoot smaller bullets too. But it gets all fuzzy for me there, I don't understand all the terms and what they are/mean, cause I don't shoot, I think you really must know guns, to talk about all of that, no? I can try but I need at least to do a tad more homework for that. But thats all not very KdF anymore.

The Kleinkaliber Übungswaffen are very intresting, maybe you and your friends can tell us about these? They deserve a topic for themselves. The pic from the W625Z rifle, is from a BSW-Katalog, page 50, no year, sorry. The JGA guns, yes, from Akah, and the Klappkugelfang and Zimmerschießstände also from an ad by Akah in 1939, which actuly is the company Albrecht Kind in Gummersbach-Hünstig. This still exists.

Bye,
KR


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Originally Posted By: Krullies
from Akah, and the Klappkugelfang and Zimmerschießstände also from an ad by Akah in 1939, which actually is the company Albrecht Kind in Gummersbach-Hünstig. This still exists.

Bye,
KR


Yes, Akah has been in existance I believe for well over a century. I think their locations during the N.S. Zeit were Berlin & Nürnberg. The firm was, and still may be, a prolific lederwaren manufacturer - i.e. holsters, usw. Here is the official holster for the "Ehrenwaffe des Politischen Leiters". Albrecht Kind was the only manufacturer authorized by the NSDAP to produce this holster.
OK! That is quite enough of the little side-trips away from the KdF topic here. I promise this is my last OT post.

Karin, if you (or anyone else) have any non-KdF questions I can answer, please email me at dengaiXnetzero.net. (you know what to do with the X.

100_5542 (Medium).JPG (68.27 KB, 195 downloads)
AkAh PL holster w/Hoheitsabzeichen.
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100_5498 (Medium).JPG (103.6 KB, 196 downloads)
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The Akah Leaf-Bearskin trademark.
Last edited by Denny Gaither; 03/29/2011 04:48 PM.

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Hi Denny! Surely you haven't been off by a longshot Didnt mean it that way, I learned something alltogether new! So, I hope you keep on going here? Thanks for the info! Pistolholsters! Actualy found some nice infos on these, when searching for anything on your KdF-Anschütz, and KdF-shooting-training, a little while back .. very amazingly awesome shots Denny, you have so much guns! Thanks again, for sharing, very nice marks on the holster!

Bye,
KR


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Here it is, Paul's awesome flag! Or, one like that, anyways .. Attached pics 3, 4 and 5 .. Waving from cordage of the boat "Robert Ley", already talked about here. All 3 scans, from the very pretty book "Nach Dem Glücklichen Inseln". The book tells of KdF-holidaytravels to Madeira and Tenerife. Travels to Madeira and the Canaries, were part of the KdF-Atlantikfahrten, but more on those in another post sometime. The book has only and very many very beautiful full-colour pictures, it gives so much info, and tells fun things and also thrilling stories about Kriegsmarine escorts and so on. These were necesary sometimes, even if no war was goin on overthere at that time. These Madeira/Tenerife Atlantikfahrten got postponed a year because the war broke out.

Madeira, is part of Portugal, and tourism still makes this island the most rich district of Portugal. During world war II, Portugal was neutral, because it kept alive a treaty from 1386 named Treaty of Windsor, this was a peace-alliance between England and Portugal. Tenerife, is part of the Canary Islands, and the biggest island. The Canaries are part of Spain, but, autonomous, and also neutral during world war II.

Churchill and Hitler both of them made invasionplans for the Canary Islands. Churchill made plans in case Spain joined Germany and would invade thruogh Gibraltar. Hitler made plans to take the Canaries, these plans had codename Felix, but the plans never got reality, because Germany needed Spain for this invasion and Spain never actully joined Germany/the Axis forces. Spain was very weak after the civil war. Here we touch Legion Condor, and thats way beyond this KdF-topic.

See the 2nd attached shot. The book has a nice DAF-stamp, and dedication in it. It starts with "PG", meaning Parteigenosse, so, the dedication is in english; "Fellow party member Friedrich Lüttich, to his today's birthday, with best wishes", the signature, unfortunatly, unable to read. The stamp is of DAF, and reads "Ortswaltung Bayerische Flugzeugwerke Regensburg". And the Gau, Bayerische Ostmark. After 1942, this Gau was called Bayreuth, so this is allright, if you look at the written date, 25.4 1940. There is also, a DAF function title, "Orts-. u. Betriebsobmann.". Text, a bit faint, but, thats what it says. This Flugzeugwerke Regensburg is actualy is Messerschmit GmbH.

The KdF-Gauwart in Bayerische Ostmark was Max Dümmler. NSDAP Gauleiter at the date the book was given was Fritz Wächtler. The stamp tells much info like Ortswaltung and the function title. Ortswaltung, is something like local governance. And Ortsobmann is some sortof local leader. Betriebsobmann, a company leader, but for section DAF, not the company itself! How this is connected to the German organisation of things, is so very very great explained actuly in the book underneath the book "Nach Den Glücklichen Inseln" in the background. This is the book "Du Bist Sofort Im Bilde". This tells all things 3rd Reich; ranks, Kragenspiegel and whatever insignia, of SA/NSKK, Wehrmacht, police, flags, evrything, organisations, people, laws, views, history, future, politics, culture, so yes also Kraft durch Freude. You can see the page there, that tells "Sorgen Sie mir dafür, daß das Deutsche Volk wieder lachen lernt". And that was the assignment that Hitler gave Robert Ley, and this was what started Kraft durch Freude. The book is more in detail here. Truly very awesome that book! It answers many things you want to know! Almost you need no forums anymore for many things *LOL* I also saw that this Glücklichen-Inseln-book that shows Paul's flag is in detail here, same site, if you're intrested. See how beautiful that book is! Fun, no?

Enjoy,
KR

Inseln_1.jpg (121.62 KB, 181 downloads)
Book
Inseln_2.jpg (117.27 KB, 181 downloads)
Dedication + stamp
KdF-flag_1.jpg (109.99 KB, 180 downloads)
Paul's waving flag!
KdF-flag_2.jpg (121.92 KB, 180 downloads)
The coast of Santa Cruz..
KdF-flag_3.jpg (121.76 KB, 180 downloads)
Somewhere on the Canaries...

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Originally Posted By: Krullies
..But theres more .. imagine this; there's actually still a roll of film in this KdF-Kodak-Box, YES. If this aint thrilling then what is??! Im being supported in getting it out. Whats inside can go many ways, but surely dont want to break or ruin anything, or waste any shots by light, so, I'm still learning all I can and building up courage for it! ...


Last friday, I finaly dared it; I winded up the film in the camera, all according to instructions I had. Still not sure if any film was actualy inside that day. Some texts passing by the little red window, no numbers, surely there was film, and all used up! And today, I dared to pull out the film-winding-knob, to release the case, and press the back from the front. The camera didnt want to, took some force to get it out of its hybernate I reckon. Somehow, a very tense moment, and, finaly it opened, and there it was ... look at that ... Its an Agfa film .. the little blue label was dried out and let go of the film a long time ago, the black straps you see around the filmroll, is my hairband, against advice, I ofcourse forgot to get stickytape to put over the film to keep it secure and tightly rolled up. The shots are poor, very dimm lit, no flash, as little light as possible ofcourse used! About a minutes exposure time, and there it is for you to see ... next, find out WHAT exactly is on/in there ... already, this is so much fun, awesomely exciting this .. more to come!

Bye,
KR

film_1.jpg (122.18 KB, 158 downloads)
film_2.jpg (121.67 KB, 158 downloads)
film_3.jpg (121.37 KB, 157 downloads)
film_4.jpg (108.42 KB, 158 downloads)
film_5.jpg (106.41 KB, 156 downloads)

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Will be watching.

--dj--Joe

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Originally Posted By: derjager
Will be watching.

--dj--Joe


Well, the search is now for a photostudio that still does these old films! Turns out, laws sometimes prevents use of chemicals you need to develop filmroll like this? And it takes 3 kinds of equipment, not used much anymore, too Already learned, the Agfa Isopan F film, is a black and white film, see a 1943 package-box here. Its finegrain film, ISO 40, the film sensitivity-speed. The higher the ISO the more sensitive the film is, and the less exposuretime you need. 100 is pretty standard today, and no less then ISO 64 is for sale anymore? 200 is 2 times more sensitive then 100, and would need half as much light to make a picture. Black and white film, captures light not colours, so, filmgrains turn black if exposed to light. The darker the grainparticle, the more light it took, and ofcourse each colour has its own amount of light reflected when put to Black/White. The finer the grain of the film, the more particles grabbing light and the more detailed the blackened grains paint the negative-picture. See here for more if you want.

So, developing the film surely ain't solved yet. Meanwhile, here's another Abzeichen that shows again it doesn't take a lot to make it look a million, this metal Gauwandertreffen Kauserslautern, 15. August 1937 pin, German "wandern" means "to hike" or "to walk", I think the first is better here. Lovely pin, very nice details, looks stunning, also never saw it before, but its in Tiëste. The 15th august, 2 days before that, Japan attacked Shanghai. Kaiserslautern has much NSDAP activities, at least when you look at how many Kaiserslautern Tagungsabzeichen exist! Kaiserslautern also has the local city-district directory of all directories in community archives to mention the most things the NSDAP did to "make the city better" during 3rd Reich period, like renaming streets and squares, build new things, put buildings to purpose, change rules and laws, and all the honorable NSDAP-citizens and the National Socialist achievements of them that lived there. Read here if you want to know more.

The city-district always had much sports and community, and by 1938, all of the clubs and organisations were KdF-clubs ofcourse. The club most famous, is the soccerclub FC Kaiserslautern. You guys may like soccer, theres some vids here, also about the club and a famous player during WWII. Specificly for Kraft durch Freude, I found no infos yet anywhere for Kaiserslautern, but the pin is surely nice enough to show.

Enjoy,
KR

Gauwandertreffen_1.jpg (121.67 KB, 141 downloads)
Front
Gauwandertreffen_2.jpg (121.55 KB, 138 downloads)
Back
Gauwandertreffen_3.jpg (120.92 KB, 138 downloads)
Closeup
Last edited by Krullies; 04/05/2011 07:24 PM.

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Brilliant when little things tell bigger things. Id like to go back to a Thüringen Abzeichen a bit. Its surely intrestring all the Abzeichen already learned here. Now I wanna show a little bit more even, yes the same Abzeichen, but, with a little piece of paper on it, that gives so much more info! The little lable at the back, look at that! Doesnt lit up under UV-light in a dark room, so it looks real! It says "Arbeitsbeschaffungsstelle der Notstandsgemeinde Mangersgereuth-Hämmern (Türingen), ältester Ort deutscher Schiffschnitzerkunst", so, in English, something like "Employmentservice of the municipality in state of crisis Mangersgereuth-Hämmern in Thüringen, the place of oldest German shipscarver art traditions". About the Schiffschnitzerkunst, here is a good read in German about the toymakers and shipcarvers, little ships, so Schiffsmodelle mind you!

Just like Berlin and Frankfurt am Main, this place Mangersgereuth-Hämmern in Thüringen was a Notstandsgemeinde. This means, like translated above, that the community is in crisis, with financials at least, and maybe other things too. This ment among very many other things that, the leaders of the community, could use §33 of the Reichsfürsorgegrundsätze and so also the Arbeitsfürsorge, to restrict care for people that live, work or visit there to absolute minimum, so, only to help people in severe life-theatening situations. And also, the leaders can force inhabitants to work, if people dont have work, of if they had too little work, or, if the community thinks the person has a skill thats necesary for the comunity. Thüringen, I said already here, was the first to use forced and slavelabourers. Here is more about Pflichtarbeit. Here is interesting stuff also about public welfare and forced labour. But again in German.

So, this Thüringen Abzeichen, is realy not a Tagungsabzeichen, or Veranstaltungsabzeichen. I'm thinking, maybe, the word tinnie needs extra specification, like Hüsken already has the Mitgliedsabzeichen, or membership-pin. This seems like a membership-pin too, with a but... The badge is big and stands out, so, makes it eazy to see, and people wearing it, can be seen as Employment service workers. And I think that people thatgot put to work for the service had to wear these. I dont think, officials that work at the employment service that put people to work wore these, but also thats possible maybe. Still, membership-pins, are usualy not so screamingly noticeable. Like the little Hessen-Nassau Abzeichen, that I think is a Mitgliedsabzeichen, no date, no event on it, just KdF and in this case Gau, sometimes pins tell the Kreis. Yep I think this Thüringen pin, is a workers-badge. Just a theory I have, no pictures to actuly show this (yet?) but, so far, its a good theory.

And theres more. The little piece of paper, look at the print, the typeface, its normal-type. I think, this makes the Abzeichen, of after early 1941. Usually they printed in Fraktur typeface. This is also not always true, and for exemple this Hamburg pin uses no Fraktur either, but something normal-type that looks like runic? Still, very much prints used Fraktur, this was the German way of print then.

If we look back at the München-Oberbayern Abzeichen, this uses Sütterlin typeface, that also makes this pin very pretty-looking, Sütterlin is beautiful, just see how pretty this old school exercise book is! So, this surely dates this pin back to before september 1941! Why? Because, the Sütterlinschrift, was banned by Hitler in september 1941. And Fraktur, was banned a tad earlier, in january 1941. See a scan of the letter to decree the Fraktur-ban below;



Ironic that the letterhead self still is in Fraktur Imagine, all printings, letters, books, schoolbooks and stuff, totally anything, needed to get redone into regular type, called Antiqua what we still use? See this to see both typefaces together. Surely a big change for printing business then, no? Anyways, awesome how little things make bigger pictures. And, these big Thüringen Abzeichen, simple as they are I guess, surely look great together somehow

Enjoy,
KR

Gau_Thüringen_2_1.jpg (121.87 KB, 120 downloads)
2 badges
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2 badges together
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2 badges closeup
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2 badges lable
Last edited by Krullies; 04/09/2011 10:30 AM. Reason: typos :\

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Interesting K, very interesting.
Nice wandertreffen badge. Strong design.

--dj--Joe


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Hi Joe! Thanks! Yes, it does! BUT, I think maybe I was too hasty, with saying the Thüringen worker badge is from after the Fraktur-ban in 1941. I saw some wood Hitler-Jugend tinnies from 1934, and, not like the lovely birdies and my favorite Abzeichen here, they had Antiqua-typeface. So, before the ban, Antiqua was also used, and so, I can't realy defend my statement very well. Still, a lot was done in Fraktur, so, it ~~could~~ be. Reckon I started to see what I learned everywhere *LOL* The Betreuerinnenabzeichen, yes, surely is from before the Sütterlin-ban.

Gau Franken, already told about here, and another here. This is another Franken Abzeichen. Not a pin but a slider? It slips over a pocket or a collar maybe? Not a tie, it'd be sideways or upsidedown, no? A very little pin! Again no date or event. Reckon another Mitgliedsabzeichen. The background, not anything Franken, but the Kraft durch Freude published booklet "Freude durch Laienschaffen" with graphics by Franz Kolbrand. Awesome little book, about creativity and creating things, and how this is good for health and wellbeing, also for wounded people, but havent read it all and probably will tell more in another post someday.

Enjoy,
KR

KdF_Gau_Franken_1.jpg (121.5 KB, 151 downloads)
Gau Franken Abzeichen
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Front
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Back
KdF_Gau_Franken_4.jpg (121.1 KB, 149 downloads)
Closeup

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K, I have observed a few small day/rally badges made with the pocket or (lapel?) clip like yours.
Usually when made like that the clip is smaller and a small hole was drilled for a straight pin, as I'm sure you have seen examples of.

--dj--Joe


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Thanks Joe! Any of your such pins in here somewhere? Because I dont understand what you mean? A hole in the clip? Or .. problaby I'm missing something way obvious, sorry ...


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Hi K, make that read two holes in the clip/tab. My memory failed me. frown
One reverse image, one side image.

While scouting for examples I saw four different tinnies with tabs like yours and only two like my tab.

--dj--Joe smile

DSCN0466.JPG (69.19 KB, 129 downloads)
DSCN0467.JPG (57.31 KB, 129 downloads)

<BR>
Joined: Jun 2010
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Hi Joe! No I never saw these clips with holes+pin yet? Thanks for showing!! Nice Ein Führer Ein Volk Ein Reich badge btw


Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Krullies #245101 05/18/2011 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: WWII
..What do you make of this one, KdF related? Possibly a trip down south to the Mediterranean? ... lots of lizards down there ... grin..



Originally Posted By: WWII
...I remember running around in Salamander shoes as a young boy and that they were/are (?) a famous shoemaking company. It's ..


Old period newspapers are fun! Look here what I found? Der gute Schuh beim Wintersport, the right shoe for wintersport, right there full page in a 1936 Illustrierte, a Salamander advertizing, surely a lovely illustration too. Just grabbing back in this topics time, couldn't keep this from here.

G'Bye,
KR

Salamander_1.jpg (122.07 KB, 116 downloads)
Advertizing
Salamander_2.jpg (121.55 KB, 116 downloads)
Close-up

Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Krullies #245114 05/18/2011 09:30 PM
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Karin,

Very nice, it takes me back a ways ... wink grin

Thanks!

B~

WWII #245119 05/18/2011 10:17 PM
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K, good detective work.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
derjager #245177 05/19/2011 09:15 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1
O
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O
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1
just posted a BSW Model W625Z on auction arms....may want to have a look. it's a nice gun. AA# 10347136

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