UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Fire Bayonet Thread

Denny,

That's one sweet Luger. I have a particular liking for Krieghoffs & this one is no exception, wow. I'm glad someone scooped it up.

As promised, here's the first of a number of logos I never had time to add previously. We've all seen the Dan Pet. Krebs lobster, usually on an SS sword or occasionally on a Heer or Luft dagger. They're rarely seen on a fireman's bayonet. Unlike the usually seen Krebs lobster logo though, this one has the logo without company name or location. It's scarcer than it's lettered counterpart. As you can see, the logo is nicely centered & both evenly & deeply struck. Something we don't usually see, often the stampings are incomplete or light in general.

Another interesting observation I've noticed about Dan Pet. Krebs fireman's bayonets, nearly all have hilts with a dull, matte finish showing little to no plating remaining. I've also observed this on their standard KS98 bayonets although with lesser consistency. It is rare indeed to find a Krebs with decent plating & this is one of them. Purchased right here on GD (thanks Chris), it was the first one I had seen in years. A week later, another popped up on Eban, go figure.

This logo is on the reverse ricasso of a minty long model bayonet with nonmagnetic pommel.

Terry,

And a beautiful scarce etch to go along with that nice plating. Very nice piece, I do love that unembellished motto.

Here's a scarcely seen logo, the mark of Carl Grah, Solingen-Ohligs. Grah's logo was that of an airplane centered in an oval eith the company's name & location around the inner border. This mark is nice in that it's centered well on the blade & as well it's both deeply stamped & evenly placed. I bought this one maybe 5 or 6 years ago & at that time, it was the only example I had seen of this logo on a fireman's bayonet. Since then I've seen 2 others so they're out there although not too common. I've seen this logo on the occasional SA dagger & I believe (from memory) an HJ knife or two plus a few KS98 bayonets.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a short model bayonet with nonmagnetic hilt.

Here is a beautiful example of a scarce mark to find, the distributor Aug. Luneberg, Kiel. Kriegsmarine collectors will immediately recognize the mark as one occasionally seen on KM blades but this is an exceedingly rare mark to find on a bayonet, certainly on a fireman's bayonet.

Occasionally we find a fireman's bayonet marked by a particular distributor that also has it's manufacturer's logo on the blade. These double marked examples are always in demand with maker mark nuts. Sadly this example is not so marked although it's always interesting to see if the maker can be discerned by the hilt configuration.

As luck would have it, this one was an early production piece by Eickhorn showing a beautiful sloping crossguard & telltale Eickhorn pommel. These early Eickhorn pieces almost always show excellent quality & construction. I sometimes wonder if this bayonet had a marine connection or it was that Luneburg merely sold it.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of an minty short model bayonet with magnetic pommel.

Wow! A very rare distributor mark and certainly the first I've ever seen on a FW bayonet. Is this a recent addition, Billy?
Here is mine, only on a KS98.

Denny,

Nice one, thanks for posting it. Is yours a standard KS98 or is there anything distincive besides the mark? Seems yours has Kiel & sadly mine doesn't. This one is not a recent addition at all, I've had it for 4 or 5 years now. I believe it was posted on the "old" fire bayonet thread & I recently went through this thread to see which pieces I hadn't yet posted. Surpringly there were a bunch & I'm trying to add them as time allows including my favorite stash of L&E pieces. Don't know what I was waiting for but the time to post them is now.

Billy,
Posting here for two reasons. 1st, to bring your superb thread back to the top. 2nd, to let you know that I took the liberty of posting one of your pictures here - http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?205653-Info-needed-on-quot-bringback-quot-bayonet
If you would like me to remove it, just say the word and it shall be so!
Thanks....

hey I am new here and i have just purchased a carl henkel bielefeld long dagger off ebay. now that i have it . it seems like a reproduction because of its awsome state it is in and in fact that the blade is not sharp, it has a flat edge. i am not sure if they bade them dull. some of the pictures on here look like the same thing. is there a way to tell if this is original as I see no date?

thanks
-Jake

Hi Jake,

you will sometimes find pieces in excellent condition, no worries there. The blades were not sharpened, so you are indeed correct to be seeing a dull edge. Pieces that were sharpened have a lower collector-value due to the fact that they have been played around with, either at the time or most likely, post-war. The best way for us to judge would be for you to post a picture or a link to one. There are, mind you, very few fakes of FW bayonets around.

JAN D:

ok thanks ill try to upload some today.

[img]http://img863.imageshack.us/i/dscn0730.jpg/[/img] [img]http://img62.imageshack.us/i/dscn0731m.jpg/[/img] [img]http://img198.imageshack.us/i/dscn0732x.jpg/[/img] [img]http://img844.imageshack.us/i/dscn0733b.jpg/[/img] [img]http://img820.imageshack.us/i/dscn0734f.jpg/[/img] [img]http://img716.imageshack.us/i/dscn0735wl.jpg/[/img] /i/dscn0730.jpg/[/img]

hope these pics look good as my cameras not the best. i think it is in really good conditions. just a little bluring on the crome blade but i think i can polish it out no problem.

how do you make a atached picture so it will apear on the post?

Nice example of a fairly scarce distributor. I remember seeing this piece when it was still active & mulled over bidding myself. You did well considering you got a full rig with nice looking knot too. Henkel had two marks that I've observed, this one which is the more common of the two & one where the name is spelled Karl Henkel & the name is in an arc. There should be pics posted earlier in this thread.

One question, is the reverse of the frog marked? I've come across several examples of Carl Henkel marked frogs. These are obviously pretty rare & a nice accouterment if you can match them to a similarly conditioned bayonet.

yes the back of the frog is marked the same as the earler posts.

im curious why they were made dull? is there a reson why they were not sharpend?

Then that's a rare frog indeed, very nice. These bayonets were made dull because they're function was purely as a dress sidearm. They were worn to parades & for ceremonial purposes only & not "used" in the context of a weapon. That said, you could do a lot of damage to someone with a sawback fire bayonet.

thats cool. what would you say my bayonet is valued at?

That depends on who's buying it. You got it on an auction site where the price is set by the public's desire for the item. But the sale price could be affected by several things including how well or poorly the seller listed it. In this case I would say the price was kept down by the fact the seller neglected to mention the frog was distributor marked which would have increased the price some IMHO. I think a dress bayonet collector, given all the facts & condition of this piece, would easily pay $300, maybe more. The knots alone when well conditioned can bring $75 to $100.

nice to know that I can make money on it :P , thx

does anyone know some good online ww2 militaria stores?

JC contribution

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=244629&#Post244629

This one was a long time coming. It came to me 6 months ago, maybe longer. Been too busy over the last months to do much more than acquire some nice pieces & I've neglected the thread. But they're getting photographed as time allows & I hope to post many more soon.

I had never seen a fire bayonet by Christianswerk although I always suspected they made them. Then several years ago, Steve C. scored a nice Pioneer hilt by Christians & it reaffirmed my steadfast desire to find a fire example. After long last here it is. Minty in all aspects, the bonus is it has an Eickhorn hilt like many small cottage bayonet makers.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a long model bayonet with magnetic pommel.

Beauty, Billy.

That is a maker mark that is missing from my Luft2 collection.

John

John,

I'm sure there aren't too many that you're missing. If ever I'm lucky enough to acquire one, you can rest assured it'll find it's way to Calgary.

Billy,

Thanks for the acknoweledgement on the Christians. Indeed it is a very hard TM to find. My Pioneer also has the magnetic hilt. I think they got in the game early on these. but in my opinion, they may have droppped out of the race from competition. Maybe that's why I see so few. So many other firms started to emerge, from more money with advertising, and the smaller ones kind of dropped off.

I won't bore the forum with my thoughts, but it does give me the chance to post two pics. These have already been posted before because they were in a file that had already been re-sized. And my apology's to Billy for putting a boring old Heer bayo in his FW thread.

REgards, Steve.

Stevie,

Nothing boring about that baby, nothing at all

Just tooling around, trying to get a good shot of one of my L&Es. Now that's some logo.

Billy and Steven:

Your photography is great, but the items are magnificent!

I guess that having a swas in the TM makes it worth more, B?

John

Many thanks John,

The only edged weapon logo that I know of that has such an item. I personally like it because it's got a Feuerwehrhelm incorporated in the logo. We know of at least one other maker/distributor with a FW helm logo, alas the name is still unknown to us.

Billy / terry , just pulled out my J.H.W.E. , distribution mark? are we still in the dark on this mark?

Will,

We're still in the dark about that one. From the relatively few examples I've observed & the simple mark of just initials, I'd speculate it's an unknown distributor.

Billy ,Would a distributor mark a frog also ? , in trying to research this mark online i have come accross 2 frogs stamped the same!
regards
will.

Although not common to see, distributor marked frogs aren't uncommon enough to be called rare. Here is a L&E example.

Will,

I would be inclined to agree with Denny in that distributor marked frogs are more appropriately deemed "scarce" rather than "rare" but they are pretty tough to find. Most patent leather frogs you'll come across will be completely unmarked.

I have 3 marked frogs by Linnenbrügger & Ellermann, Bielefeld & 1 by Carl Henkel, Bielefeld (http://www.carl-henkel.de/) but that's it in about 85 patent leather frogs that I have. It's interesting that the marks of both those distributors have only been observed fire bayonets although I'd love to hear if any of you have seen these marks on standard KS98 dress pieces. I believe Terry has a distributor marked & frog by William Günther, Dresden however this is on a KS98.

Nice rig Denny! My L&E with name only is also a Pack bayonet with brass offset rivets

Almost forgot, I have also seen frogs marked Carl Busse, Mainz which is another distributor I've only observed on fire bayonets,but,... those frogs were for DRK hewers & not dress bayonets.

Billy/Denny , i'll try and get that frog pic clear enough , bear with me

Hello,

Got this one last week.Asked the seller for pics,and it looked good.When I got it home,I was surprised when it looked even better.The blade is in very nice condition,and the point is needlesharp.The Horst Wolff logo is on the reverse side of the blade.There is one bad thing;the knot misses a piece of strap.I have another knot,but I think I will leave this one as it is.

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Hi Jeremy thats one very nice fire bayo well done

Lutters

Jeremy,

Great full rig by Horst Wolff. Have you noticed even once common makers & distributors aren't seen around so much anymore? If you do see them, some are asking silly prices. Especially on well conditioned knots & full rigs. Nice toning & tarnish on that one.


Fitzer,

That Lütters didn't come from Lakeside Trader, did it? Wherever it did come from, it's a beauty.