Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#225814 08/13/2010 09:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
G
Gagarin Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Friends, opinions are interesting. Is it fake, or in 1940 such cooperation was possible?


Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
Z
Offline
Z
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
It looks like a genuine piece by Klass but..........a piece of junk now and a piece of junk ten years from now.

Last edited by zorro; 08/13/2010 01:43 PM.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Except that M7/14 is PD Luneschloss

Dave #225841 08/13/2010 05:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Dave are you saying that M7/14 with that contract # makes this a bad dagger?

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
Z
Offline
Z
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
M7/14 is for metal and 1051/40 SS numbers make it a Klass see Whittmans book on page 162


"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
Z
Offline
Z
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
M7/14 is for metal or edgeweapons ? and 1051/40 SS numbers make it a Klass see Whittmans book on page 162.Anyway it has the same value,right or wrong


"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
777 Offline
Offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
The problem is the 7/14 is Lüneschloss, guys, and 1051 is Klaas, so sth. obviously doesn't match. Are there any "kissing cranes" on the tang? RZM Klaas blades/daggers are heavily faked in Czech, so IMHO it is a fake AGED blade.

Last edited by 777; 08/13/2010 11:16 PM.
777 #225856 08/13/2010 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 925
K
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 925
Originally Posted By: 777
The problem is the 7/14 is Lüneschloss, guys, and 1051 is Klaas, so sth. obviously doesn't match. ..............,.......... so IMHO it is a fake AGED blade.


That's right 777,

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
The 1051 mark is a unique case in my opinion. It is the only contract number found used by two known manufacturers. I have seen several examples of both and consider them genuine.

SS RZM 37 + 1051.JPG (17.53 KB, 407 downloads)
SS RZM 14 + 1051 - 40 SS.jpg (55.45 KB, 405 downloads)
Dave #225861 08/13/2010 11:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
No one knows why although when this last came up years ago there was no shortage of guesses. laugh

Mine was that Klass was not able to complete the contract and somehow it was transferred to PDL.

Dave

777 #225866 08/14/2010 12:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
G
Gagarin Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Yes it is logical. In East Europe make a lot of qualitative fakes. But must be a full idiot to make two different marks on one blade. It as a grammatical error in moto)

Last edited by Gagarin; 08/14/2010 12:16 AM.
Dave #225899 08/14/2010 12:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
777 Offline
Offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
This makes sense, Dave. There is a chance the blade is good one then and absence or presence of "kissing cranes" doesn't mean anything. Gagarin, where does the blade in question come from, ground dug? What do you mean by "error in motto"?

Last edited by 777; 08/14/2010 12:28 PM.
777 #225919 08/14/2010 05:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
G
Gagarin Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Here, one more similar blade from my friend.


777 #225922 08/14/2010 05:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
G
Gagarin Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Originally Posted By: 777
This makes sense, Dave. There is a chance the blade is good one then and absence or presence of "kissing cranes" doesn't mean anything. Gagarin, where does the blade in question come from, ground dug? What do you mean by "error in motto"?


I mean, that put marks of two different makers on one blade is absurd as fake with mistake in writing moto grin (If that is fake)

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
Z
Offline
Z
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
Looks like that makermark is not so strange after all. Another rare common as dirt SS item bites the dust.I now think both of them are fake.Which is why an in hand ispection is needed before buying anything on line,or anywhere else for that matter

Last edited by zorro; 08/14/2010 05:37 PM.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Thanks Dave for clarifying.
There is a difference between a contract # and a RZM maker code.
IMHO 1052/38 was split up between makers as well. I believe this was discussed a while ago.

Dave #226010 08/15/2010 07:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917
Likes: 5
The use of RZM code numbers by two different manufacturers is well known, especially among HJ Knife manufacturers. This does NOT mean the dagger is bad, but needs to be examined closely by hand. I tend to not label this as a reproduction or a mistake, but rather a period annomoly IMO.


MAX CHARTER MEMBER

LIFE MEMBER OVMS
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
777 Offline
Offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
Interesting, when we speak about Klaas-Lüneschloss connections the DRK hewers come to mind, as they were produced by Klaas and Lüneschloss only.

777 #226352 08/19/2010 11:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
hi gents; might be a fake, might not. would have been nice if some one way back when , had intrest as we do now & tracked it. This is not the only SS mark like this. can't find the one like this but, ever one seems to think the code for mack & eicklenberg is 1241, but above it is m7/81 = tigerwerke. have yet to see tigerwerke listed as a maker anywhere. Plus on hitler youth daggers, there is at least 2 knives with mixed info. on the blades. they are transitionals with a logo of one comp. & rzm of another.
Better story ;comp. "a" has the contract but, nolonger makes that item due to war conditions (bayonets needed, ect.) , But comp."b" will make for comp."a".& they ARE an approved rzm maker. they mark it for "additional quality" concerns.
simular with early S.A. daggers,many of those early companies never made them. most didn't even assemble them.
the comp. across the street did; FOR a fee. same on etched dress bayonets, many offered them but, never made them, few did. I have a "haco" (S.A.) maker mark photo..BUT, has m7/33 below it. every one agrees that the comp. is only a distributor. But as a marking gose , this rzm is now associated with at least 3 diffrent comps. I'm not sure now ,that those "experts" are correct " sharing an rzm code". might be only 1 actual comp. making it. plus a lot of m7 codes to companies that appear never made anything dagger related. i know I confused this even more. jeff h.

jeff #238231 01/28/2011 09:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
G
Gagarin Offline OP
OP Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Friends I think this blade made by Luneschloss.
Look at the photos, I have compared two motos . Luneschloss moto and mine . Both motos are the same !



The style of Klaas mark is very similar with mine too . There are differences, but it is admissible. (Different time of manufacture and entering of additions into mark.)



It seems to me, that it is example of manufacturing cooperation of SS daggers makers at last period 1940.
I think this blade is example of such cooperation , Klaas has bought Luneschloss details for SS daggers .
Probably at that point of time Luneschloss has finished manufacture SS daggers, but some details haven't been used. If it so, this one of the latest blade made for SS daggers .

Last edited by Gagarin; 01/28/2011 09:54 AM.

Moderated by  Dave 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,529 SS Bayonets
1,760,293 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,769 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Hiddensee brooch
by benten - 03/24/2024 04:13 PM
Latest New Posts
F Dula with a twist
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 03/28/2024 09:29 PM
Personalized reproduction honor ring source?
by Simone - 03/28/2024 08:57 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/28/2024 06:18 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Gaspare - 03/28/2024 12:34 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 11:30 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,652
Posts328,708
Members7,501
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
14 members (C. Wetzel-20609, benten, Simone, Mikee, Jonesy, Dave, Vern, The_Collector, Documentalist, Honestmike, Baz69, Nietzsche, Stephen, JonathanC), 381 guests, and 119 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5