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Re: Norwegenfahrten [Re: derjager] #267365
07/07/12 04:30 PM
07/07/12 04:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Krullies Offline OP
Krullies  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Originally Posted By: derjager
..nice, I have not before seen your KdF ship badge...


Thanks so much Joe!!! Yes tinnies made of wood are hard to find, and many times not cheap, some real diehard collectors are after them, nothing beats the little birds tho but yes this is nice.


Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Re: Norwegenfahrten [Re: Krullies] #267388
07/07/12 11:16 PM
07/07/12 11:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
derjager Offline
derjager  Offline

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
Yes, the little birds are a favorite. (Page #2 folks).

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Re: Norwegenfahrten [Re: derjager] #267472
07/09/12 03:41 PM
07/09/12 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,346
B
benten Offline
benten  Offline

B
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,346
Krullies my complements for your informative contributions to this KDF topic .

Here a postcard from the 6th WHW Reichsstrassensammlung 29-31.3.1940 under the motto :
"Schaffende sammlen, schaffende geben".


See the KDF sign above the butterflies .
Under them is written k.d.f.-Sammlergruppen(?).

A collaboration between WHW and KDF .

Attached Files
1 P1450045 WC.jpg (185 downloads)
2 P1450046 d wC.jpg (186 downloads)
3 P1450047 wC.jpg (185 downloads)
Re: Norwegenfahrten [Re: benten] #267706
07/14/12 09:51 AM
07/14/12 09:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Krullies Offline OP
Krullies  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Benten what a brilliant card!!! Nice topic .. Yes, there were collector groups allowed by KdF, like stamp collectors. KdF did special day envelopes and stamps. They used events and expositions for it too, like the Automobilausstellung in Berlin. Im working on a post about that btw. Along the way, the KdF (and so the NSDAP) made money from it too, in their sly way. Lovely postcard, anybody have another stamp or card to show?


Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Re: Norwegenfahrten [Re: Krullies] #269591
08/18/12 12:08 PM
08/18/12 12:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
derjager Offline
derjager  Offline

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Just this side of, whats next.
I think I have one KdF card. I'll have to look. smile Remind me should I forget.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Man sieht den Bären in Berlin vor lauter Bären nic [Re: derjager] #277261
01/23/13 06:36 PM
01/23/13 06:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
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Krullies Offline OP
Krullies  Offline OP

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Netherlands
I promised someone to post this, so here they are, 2 cute KdF pins for Gau Berlin. The left one is made of pressed brown leather and has a pink color added, the other is copper colored sheetmetal. I love the bears. The bear is in the Berlin Crest. Groß Berlin means Berlin, with the towns and regions from Brandenburg that got added to Berlin in 1920. When Groß Berlin was formed, the city grew from 2 million people to almost 4 million people.



The bears are interesting, there are officially 3 bear categories; official city bears, in the weapon\crest of Berlin. The industrial bears, for companies and organisations that used the bear in logos and commercials. And finally, the arty bears, that got designed and used for festivities, activities and events.

Some historians think, the name Berlin has to do with bears, but other historians say, the name Berlin originally means wet damp land, so they think the name Berlin came before the bear symbol because bears have no link to the meaning.

The first Berlin bear appeared in the year 1280 on march 22, in a magazine that was named "Der Bär". It showed a seal for the city, with the text "Sigilum burgensium de Berlin sum", which means "I'm the seal of the citizens of Berlin". The seal shows 2 bears, that carry a shield with an eagle on it.

During the middle ages, Berlin was also known as Urbs Arctoa, that means City Of Bears. Historic societies still fight over what they think is the reason for the bear in the Berlin crest. The Berliner Bär even replaced the Prussian eagle in the police insignia after WW2.

Backs of the pins;


Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Re: Man sieht den Bären in Berlin vor lauter Bären nic [Re: Krullies] #277478
01/27/13 08:00 PM
01/27/13 08:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
derjager Offline
derjager  Offline

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Just this side of, whats next.
Hi K,
Those are both nice examples.
As always well photographed and informative. Thank you.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Re: Man sieht den Bären in Berlin vor lauter Bären nic [Re: derjager] #277489
01/28/13 07:29 AM
01/28/13 07:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,978
Media, PA
WWII Online content
WWII  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,978
Media, PA
Karin,

Didn't see your bears until just now ... both are wonderful designs which I've never seen before. You have a fine knack for choosing rare pieces and the condition is impeccable too, good eye!

In this case the English term for the word "Gross," would be "greater," Berlin, encompassing outlying regions and so on. Yes, way back when they built the city its foundations were laid in a large swampy area, the new gateway to the east. Most people thought it was a god-foresaken, dirty outpost in the middle of nowhere.

Great bears, many thanks for posting. wink

Best!

W~

Re: Man sieht den Bären in Berlin vor lauter Bären nic [Re: WWII] #277527
01/28/13 05:33 PM
01/28/13 05:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Krullies Offline OP
Krullies  Offline OP

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Netherlands
Thanks very much guys!!!


Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst [Re: Krullies] #277798
02/03/13 05:47 PM
02/03/13 05:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
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Krullies Offline OP
Krullies  Offline OP

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Netherlands
This post is to thank everyone that took part in the discussion about KdF and gun sports, and also everyone that made this topic so much fun!! Thanks Denny, Dean, William, Joe, Rod, Jim M, Erich, Horst, Benten, Mikee and anyone I forgot or that was reading along.

Sometimes you find out that something you have is so much more special than you thought. Especially if you first get the item and second find out what it really is. This is about such an item. Guns are a hot topic these days, and it made me think of the discussion about KdF markings on guns. You can find the discussion somewhere in this topic. It was all about what's in this little book below, called Organisationsbuch der NSDAP - Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst Kleinkalibergewehr-Pistole. Or, in English; "Book of the NSDAP-movement, section educational regulation for the small caliber rifle and pistol shooting service". I never showed the book before. It gives every possible info about the place shooting had in nazi Germany, about learning how to shoot, and shooting for sports. At the back there is a section were the owner of the book could keep track of personal progress.





For everyone that didn't read the discussion or forgot about it, here's a bit more info. The Schießdienst promoted the ability to shoot for NSDAP members, for educational and sports shooting, it used small caliber guns. More about this in detail below. The little book, is very very rare. I didn't quite realize HOW rare, until I saw one for sale at the Weitze company. It's a little booklet, 9,5 by 13 centimeters big (3.7 by 5.1 inch), 111 pages. Have a look in the section "Antiques - Educational and instruction books"! This screen was grabbed on February 3, 2013. This is the link. You can also find it at Abebooks here.




As you can see below, this is the 10th edition, and the amount of booklets made is 230000 after this edition. How strange it is, that almost all of them are destroyed!




Sports were the perfect political tool. Keep people busy, keep them together, competitive and fit for battle, and you can reach them with your ideology very easily. Very early on during the 1920s, NSDAP made standards for sports and fitness. The SA Sportabzeichen (later called Wehrabzeichen) was the insignia to go with it. The Deutschen Reichsausschusses für Leibesübungen (DRA) was founded in 1917, and it regulated officail sports and awards in Germany. NSDAP absorbed this organization soon after 1933, and in 1937 NSDAP had officially incorporated DRA and the awards from DRA, and made them into Deutsche Reichsbund für Leibesübungen (DRL), and the awards were called Deutsche Reichssportabzeichen.




The booklet covers rifle and pistol. Below is the contents for rifles.




"Never aim a gun at people, unless in emergencies or the call of duty. Always consider guns from strangers are - loaded!" Here you clearly see that guns are much much more than just sports ..




Every detail of the gun is discussed in the booklet.




Anything and everything during the third Reich had to be instrumental, functional and according to the NSDAP plan and vision. Architecture, art, the work people do, the things people do in their free time, everything. So, what better "place" to start if you want to find out how things were than the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP? This is the book, that tells everything. The ideas, the principles, the values, the way things worked, the structure of leadership and government, the way things looked, the way things were called, every little detail is in there. An original copy of an Organisationsbuch is very special in itself. The book learns about things they don't teach in history class and things you don't see in movies. It answers most questions you can ask about NSDAP and third Reich National Socialism. It also shows every logo for every organization, every color that is used, every rank and uniform. It's really very interesting from a design view. Ofcourse facts dont make opinion untrue. For instance, dutch NSB and WA members that joined the Germaanse SS were not allowed to wear their NSB and WA insignia on the SS uniform, but they did. Photographs show that W.A.-Sportinsgnia, Jeugdstorm pins and NSB membership pins were pinned on uniforms of Dutch soldiers that fought in Eastern Europe. But facts are never wrong, unlike opinions. The first big NSDAP book appeared in 1936, and every year a new book was published with changed and new information. The last year an Organisationsbich was published was 1943. This was the 7th edition, and it is the most complete book. These books, don't come cheap. Below an original copy of the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP, 7th edition, from 1943.




I posted this before, but, I saw its impossible to read, so here it is bigger, a period newsletter from the chief of police, addressed to all shooting sports facilities. It says that the Büscher-model was now the official training rifle for Kraft durch Freude.




Guns are a hot topic at the moment in the US. Some people drag Hitler into it by giving false historical facts, or facts out of context. So, why not tell a bit more about the historical background of shooting in Germany. National Socialism shared the ideas about violence with Fascism. Both say, violence is necessary, and both give violence a heroic status, something of beauty even. With that in mind, it's easy to see how Hitler didn't ban guns. In fact, he promoted it. But, ofcourse with regulations and restrictions, like everything else that is National Socialist. One of the points discussed in the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP is, that National Socialism, and all its uniforms and ranks, have to be respected and protected against violence. The whole weapons-laws of third Reich Germany was based on it. Everybody has to be able to fight, unless you're an enemy of the third Reich. The laws and regulations were completed in 1938. But let's backpaddle more.


During the Napoleonic wars (1803-1815) many cities formed groups of marksmen to protect it, called Schützengilden. After 1815, until Germany was made a monarchy in 1871, these Schützengilden were seen as important part of society. They stood for people against oppression from foreign states, or even local rulers that meant harm. After that, the Schützengilden were seen as Nationalist protection against the Emperor. After 1918, Germany was defeated and disarmed, and with Wilhelm II removed from power and in exile, Germany was now a Republic; Weimar.


Many Wehrverbände and Bürgermilizen were formed in Weimar right after the war, by disillusioned soldiers and angry young men. These groups were always very nationalistic in their ideas, and very radical. Ofcourse, if they had weapons, they were illegal. That is the time when Hitler got more and more popular. The SA and the NSDAP were originally also nationalist Wehrverbände. In 1933, Hitler grabbed power, Weimar ended, the third Reich began.


The third Reich with its Führerprinzip was very strict in everything. First the Führer, second the movement, third the people (or country because people were bound by country in the ideology), fourth the individual. Also, for all Wehrverbände and Schutzvereine, the Gleichschaltung and restructuring happened, just like for everything else.


Every national socialist and party member needed to be able to defend the Führer, the movement, the people and himself. Sport was a big issue, physical fitness, people must be able to fight. Shooting was a big part of all that. The NSDAP educated their members in shooting. The SA, the HJ and KdF were the biggest groups that did this. These organisations took the leading role in shooting education, later on under regulation of DRL. You can find many info in the Handbuch der SA, Dennis showed this in this topic, and in training manuals for the Hitler Jugend. The very first Reichsschießschule Für die Hitler Jugend was formed in Obermaasfeld, Thüringen. By 1938, shooting was already very popular, and many training facilities were made in Thüringen and other locations. Especially politischen Leiter were expected to be able to shoot. The Organisationsbuch shows the standard weapon for these ranks. But the little book Organisationsbuch der NSDAP - Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst Kleinkalibergewehr-Pistole gives the complete information about the weapons, the purpose, the training and the goals of the training.


Bye,
KR

Last edited by Krullies; 02/03/13 06:01 PM. Reason: typo..

Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Re: Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst [Re: Krullies] #277817
02/04/13 09:27 AM
02/04/13 09:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,978
Media, PA
WWII Online content
WWII  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,978
Media, PA
Karin,

Good to see your purchase turned out nicely for you, something a bit special - it goes to show good bargains are still out there just waiting to be found. As with anything worthwhile, we invest not only our money, but our time and patience, too.

Another well written and richly illustrated history lesson. You should be on the editorial/layout staff of a major magazine, this is good stuff, you have a natural talent for it.

As always, many thanks KR, and good collecting to all !

W~

Re: Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst [Re: WWII] #277819
02/04/13 09:57 AM
02/04/13 09:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,226
Calgary
JohnZ Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,226
Calgary
I, too, am amazed at the scholarship and the details that Krullies brings to these forums.

Thank you for sharing your hard work and your findings with us.

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Re: Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst [Re: JohnZ] #277834
02/04/13 06:13 PM
02/04/13 06:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
derjager Offline
derjager  Offline

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Just this side of, whats next.
Karin has been one of the leading contributors to so many threads of interest.

Thanks K. wink

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Re: Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst [Re: derjager] #277843
02/05/13 01:36 AM
02/05/13 01:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,148
Mikee Offline
Mikee  Offline

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Posts: 3,148
Karin-Renate,

I just love your threads! Not only interesting and informative but witty and fun to read. Your photography is first rate to say the least and I'm a big follower of yours! Thank you!

Re: Abschnitt Ausbildungs-Ordnung für den Schießdienst [Re: Mikee] #278325
02/18/13 01:25 PM
02/18/13 01:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,834
Michiana
Denny Gaither Offline
Denny Gaither  Offline

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Michiana
Karin,

Thank you for your continued contributions to this subject. You are much appreciated for your intelligence and research capabilities.


WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
KdF [Re: Denny Gaither] #289059
10/20/13 02:18 PM
10/20/13 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 921
Germany
K
kreta1961 Offline
kreta1961  Offline

K
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 921
Germany

Attached Files
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DSCN1323.JPG (103 downloads)
DSCN1326.JPG (103 downloads)
DSCN1328.JPG (103 downloads)
Re: KdF [Re: kreta1961] #289089
10/20/13 08:00 PM
10/20/13 08:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
derjager Offline
derjager  Offline

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Just this side of, whats next.
Gerd, quite an interesting piece. For embossing card stock or letter heads?

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Re: KdF [Re: derjager] #289135
10/21/13 02:38 PM
10/21/13 02:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Krullies Offline OP
Krullies  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 563
Netherlands
Ooh that ís a nice item!! Very cool Gerd. To press colour or silver or gold foil in linen book covers maybe?


Nichts ist Ende, nichts ist Anfang.
Re: KdF [Re: Krullies] #289285
10/25/13 02:48 PM
10/25/13 02:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 921
Germany
K
kreta1961 Offline
kreta1961  Offline

K
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 921
Germany
Originally Posted By: derjager
Gerd, quite an interesting piece. For embossing card stock or letter heads?
--dj--Joe


Originally Posted By: Krullies
Ooh that ís a nice item!! Very cool Gerd. To press colour or silver or gold foil in linen book covers maybe?


Hmm...i'm not sure about,but you could be right.
Thanks and Regards,
Gerd

Re: KdF [Re: kreta1961] #317897
04/17/16 06:40 PM
04/17/16 06:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
derjager Offline
derjager  Offline

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,185
Just this side of, whats next.
A jewel of a visual and informative thread that deserves another look - see. smile

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

GDC Reference Library

-- German Militaria References --

Awards and Medals

3rd Reich Badges & Clasps
3rd Reich Orders & Medals
Imperial Combat Badges
Imperial Orders & Medals
Iron Cross 1st Gallery
Iron Cross 1st Spanges
Iron Cross 2nd Gallery
Iron Cross 2nd Spanges
Knight's Cross Gallery
Oak Leaves, Swords, & Diamonds
Order of the German Eagle
Ribbon Bar Chart
Shields/Cuff Titles
Award/Medal Maker Marks

Daggers & Swords

Dagger Id Guide
Miniature Dagger Id Guide
Dagger Blade Mottos
Maker/Distributor Marks
SA/NSKK Group Marks
SA/HJ RZM Codes
SA Transitional RZM Codes
SS RZM Codes
Eickhorn "Field Marschall" Swords

Insignia and Emblems

Armbands
Belt Buckles
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Imperial
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SA
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - SS
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Other NSDAP
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Military
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Government
Collar/Shoulder Tabs - Police
Cuff Titles - Non-SS
Cuff Titles - SS
SS Sleeve Diamonds
Foreign Volunteer Arm Shields
Gorgets
Helmet Decals
Military Career/Specialist Patches
Military Services Waffenfarbe
Uniform Eagle Insignia
Visor Cap/Hat Insignia

Manufacturer Codes

Erkennungs Unit Abbreviations
HeeresWaffenAmt Codes
Lieferant & LDO Numbers
Optics Maanufacturer Codes
RZM M1 - Insignia & Badge Makers
RZM M2 - Metal Work Suppliers
RZM M3 - Party Emblem Makers
RZM M4 - Buckle Makers
RZM M5 - Uniform Accessories
RZM M7 - Edged Weapons Makers
RZM M9 - Tinnie Makers
RZM M11/12 - NSDAP LS Medals & Minature Makers

-- U.S. Militaria References --

Aviator Wings
Army Enlisted Collar Discs
Military Medals
Ribbon Chart
WW1 Division Patches
WW2 Army & Corps Patches
WW2 Division Patches
WW2 Phantom Division Patches

-- Small Arms References --

Autoloading Pistols 1892-1909
Beretta Pistols 1915-1945
Colt Auto Pistols 1900-1945
FN (Browning) Pistols 1900-1945
Luger Proof & Acceptance Marks 1898-1945
Lugers - DWM Production 1895-1929
Lugers - DWM Military/Contract 1904-29
Lugers - Rework & Non-DWM 1915-1945
Mauser C96 Broomhandles 1896-1937
Nambu Pistols 1902-1945
Walther 1-9, PP, PPK, & P38 1910-1945
Walther Sport/Olympia Pistols

WW2 Pistols
WW2 Rifles
WW2 Sub-machine Guns
WW2 (German) Assault Rifles
WW2 Light Machine Guns

-- WW2 Armored Vehicles --

Axis Countries
Armored Vehicles of Germany
Armored Vehicles of Hungary
Armored Vehicles of Italy
Armored Vehicles of Japan

Allied Countries
Armored Vehicles of France
Armored Vehicles of Great Britain
Armored Vehicles of Poland
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.
Armored Vehicles of the U.S.S.R.


More to come ;)

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