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A dedicated thread to these achievement awards. I have a few I will post now and then.  D.Sch.V.
Both DSchV badges shown are the Große (large) size award. There are Klein (small) size (about 3/4 the size of the large) awards. --dj--Joe USMC.
Last edited by derjager; 07/06/2010 12:40 AM.
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A 1938 3rd. place medal.
--dj--Joe USMC.
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A tad more color.
1943 Kreisschiessen Kitzbuhel
--dj--Joe USMC.
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A sneaky move Joe, you knew you could tempt me out of the undergrowth with a thread on these  Here are a few that some may not have seen. Kreisschießen badges from Schwaz from 1941 through 1944. This is the gold with oakleaf grade (you could also get bronze, silver & gold). For some reason they changed the design completely for 1944.... Cheers Don
Last edited by Don Scowen; 07/06/2010 07:15 PM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Those are nice Don. I had to look up Schwaz. Did many Austrian cities conduct there own shooting event?
--dj--Joe USMC.
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Joe, Don,
Thanks for showing these, I like anything that has to do with shooting tradition and history.
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Thank you Gentlemen.
Joe,
In some areas/Gau almost all did, but I can't say about the whole of Austria in General.
There was already a large shooting tradition in the Tirol prior to the NS period & citizens were expected to practice regularly in case they were called upon to defend the district/country.
During the annexation, between 1941-1943 9 towns in Gau Tirol-Vorarlberg held shoots that awarded badges; Bregenz, Landeck, Schwaz, Reutte, Bludenz, Imst, Kufstein, Kitzbühel & Dornbirn.
Then in 1944 as well as the 9 listed above, 7 more towns held shoots, Lienz, Bozen, Brixen, Schlanders, Salurn, Meran & Bruneck.
To finish that off we must not forget the National Shoot (Landesschießen) held in Innsbruck annually from 1938 - 1944.
Outside of Tirol-Vorarlberg, in 1943 & 1944 Gau Salzbugerland held the Salzburger Gauschießen & the Salzburger Heimatwoche shoots. Also in 1943 Gau Kärnten, Spittal a/d Drau & Ferlach held Kreisschießen, I believe for the first time.
Not forgetting of course the Gruppenschießen of the NSKK Motorgruppe Oberdonau held in Linz from 1941 - 1943.
There may be others that I am unaware of as well.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, thank you. These badges are so visually and historically interesting. I fought the desire to collect them for a time. That's a battle lost. Mikee, thank you. Happy to share. --dj--Joe USMC.
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Lapel version of the Meisterschütze 1943 badge.
Zinc base metal has absorbed the gold paint, still to be seen on the pin and pin retaining plate.
--dj--Joe USMC.
M1.jpg (62.23 KB, 304 downloads) M2.jpg (47.6 KB, 304 downloads)
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 Another lapel pin. Standschützenverband Tirol-Vorarlberg 1940 --dj--Joe
S1.JPG (61.28 KB, 295 downloads) S2.jpg (57.96 KB, 294 downloads)
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A 1934 shooting medal. --dj--Joe
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Here's another unusual one, 1943 Kreis Völkermarkt in silver, manufactured by Alois Klammer of Innsbruck.
Völkermarkt is in Kärnten (Carinthia in English), as far as I'm aware 1943 was the first year that they held a Kreisschießen.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Don, I admire that one. Strong visual image with fine detail.
A really sharp looking award.
--dj--Joe
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Thanks Joe.
Here's another than some may not have seen. A bronze grade from Schlanders, one of the 7 Kreis to hold a shoot in 1944.
A note worth making is that by 1944 most badges were no longer being enamelled having paint instead, this is even the case with the National shoot (Landesschießen) held in Innsbruck.
However the badges of the 7 new shoots were enamelled showing I think the importance these shoots were given.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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That's a good looking enamel badge. I just keep coming back to look at it. Nice one Don.  --dj--Joe
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1940 Landesschießen
Kleinkaliber-Meisterklasse.
I've been meaning to post this example.
--dj--Joe
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Very nice Joe, these are good heavy badges aren't they.
Here's mine with the other maker mark found on these C.Poellath, Schrobenhausen.....
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Joe and Don, those are really beautiful badges. Really like the design of the eagle! Are they hard to come by? Regards, Leipzig
Never fry bacon in the nude!
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Joe and Don, those are really beautiful badges. Really like the design of the eagle! Are they hard to come by? Regards, Leipzig Sometimes yes they can be hard to locate. At the moment though I know of a couple of websites that are offering them, the prices range from about $100 - $300 depending on the site. PM me if you want the details. Cheers Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Would anyone have more examples to post? Any and all, looking forward to seeing more metal and enamel goodies. I have had a long dry period. I have some that I need to get photographed. --dj--Joe
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A few more pictures.
--dj--Joe
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A couple of nice pieces there Jo, is the Pistol 1943 a Bronze grade? It looks like it on my screen....
Here's some useless information for you:
563 of these were awarded in 1943 (obviously many more were made), & 931 of the gold grade Wehrmann were awarded
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Hello Don. Yes the pistol is a bronze.
I wonder how many they made over the 563 awarded? Triple that do you suppose?
As I recall you wrote that lower grades could be traded up to the higher grades but if the awardee wished to retain the lower grades they had to purchase the bronze and silver if they attained the gold.
I have only seen males with the award. All images from you I might add. Did any females compete?
--dj--Joe
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Hello Don. Yes the pistol is a bronze.
I wonder how many they made over the 563 awarded? Triple that do you suppose?
As I recall you wrote that lower grades could be traded up to the higher grades but if the awardee wished to retain the lower grades they had to purchase the bronze and silver if they attained the gold.
I have only seen males with the award. All images from you I might add. Did any females compete?
--dj--Joe I've no idea how many more they would have planned for Joe, but yes as you say, shooters could re-take the shoot if they were not happy with their score & if desired for an extra fee, keep the lower grade badge as well. The bronze grade are the hardest to find because no one really wanted to have the bronze, they all naturally wanted higher. Yes indeed girls & women did take part, not in huge numbers but shoot they did. For example in 1944 62 received the Meisterschütze grade of which 10 were awarded the 3 year Gaumeisterschütze badge as well for having recieved the Meister in 3 different years & a further 7 were awarded the 4 year spange. You can even see by looking through the names/numbers from each year that some of them married & changed their names (but the badge numbers give them away ;)) Cheers Don
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Thought that I would post a complete set of badges from one of the Tiroler Kreisschießen, Kitzbühel 1943.
Bronze, silver, gold & gold with oakleaves.
The version found with green leaves around the edge & "Meisterklasse" in the place of the word Kreisschießen is a fantasy piece based on these, thought to have been made by Floch in the 1970's...
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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They sure look good all grouped together like that.
Congratulations Don on a fine collection of awards.
--dj--Joe
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Don, I recall mention of a book. If I can be of any small assistance.
When it comes time to publish I would be happy to prepay for a volume to help get the ball rolling.
Perhaps the forum would be interested in assisting?
--dj--Joe
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Gents,
Sorry I don't have anything new to add as far an actual medal, but I thought this might fit in ...
Don, are you working on a publication? If so you can count me in too.
Best!
Bill
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You can count me in as well! Always interesting stuff being shown, with so much to learn. Thanks.
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Don, are you working on a publication? If so you can count me in too.
Best!
Bill
Thank you Gentlemen. Yes that is my dream, whether it will actually happen we shall have to see. I still have many badges & information to find, & then the professional transaltion to pay for etc.... I envisage two volumes at the moment. The first concentrating soley on the Landesschießen held in Innsbruck between 1938-1944, showing obverse & reverse of all the various badges in all of the grades grades, along with attachment & manufacture variations etc. Plus information on the actual shoots etc The second volume would be for the Tiroler Kreisschießen for the same period. I plan to also include in it the other miscellaneous Austrian shooting badges such as the WHW Tiroler Opfer-Schießen badges, badges from Gau Kärnten, Gau Völkermakt, Spittal a/d Drau, Ferlach & Salzberg etc. I am also hopefull of being able to include those from the NSKK Gau Oberdonu as well but that may be too opetermistic as the others are difficult enough to find anything about in the first place & next to nothing seems to be known about the NSKK shoots (assuming that the badges are genuine). So there you have it, whether I shall succeed is another thing.... Cheers Don
Last edited by Don Scowen; 07/18/2011 12:17 PM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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I offer my help as well. I have many shooting badges and most of the Tyrol ones.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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Thank you Houston, that is much appreciated.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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The first three months of this year have been very fruitful for me so far.
Considering that I feel lucky if I manage to find one badge from my wants list once in every two or three months, so far this year I've found quite a number of pieces. Largely thanks to my friend Mike who attended the SOS with my wanted list in his hand, he scoured the stalls & found 9 new badges for me.
Here are the 17 new badges I've aquired since Jan 1st. I hope that the year continues in the same way...
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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My, I see three right in the middle down that I've not seen before plus the lower right corner badge. Very nice additions to your collection Don. I see one that has holes in the upper corners, modified or made that way? Thanks for showing the awards Don. --dj--Joe
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Thank you Joe, glad that you like them. The two Landeck Kreisappell are new to me as well, I've never seen the design before.
The Tiroler Meister, I believe is one of a pair of designs given out at a shoot in Innsbruck (their wappen is on the badges). This one is for the Armeegewehr, the other was round & for the Stutzen (Houston Coates has one of the Stutzens)...
Here they are in detail, I'll only show one reverse for the Landecks as they are the same. The Meister is double marked which is nice.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Now for the other two you mention.
You have a sharpe eye. There have indeed been two holes drilled into the Bregenz 1943. I've no idea why..... It is a very tired piece, I can't even say 100% what grade it is, although I suspect that it is the gold.
The final piece you mention is the bronze grade from Dornbirn 1944, & this one makes the set for this town for me. When I get time I'll scan all 4 in the set for you if you are interested.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Thank you Don for the close ups. I would be more than interested to see the Dornbirn set when time allows. So many interesting features to see on these badges. Not many are stamped in relief. Do you note this from one area more than another? I also note marked and unmarked, round and elongated pin retaining plates. Much to study on them. You have your work cut out for you. The double marked Klammer badge is a nice find. Now you have more in wear pics to locate. Regards, Joe
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Don, It does my heart good to see such an outstanding group of awards in such great condition, a pleasure to see. I'm also pleased to see they went exactly into the right collection. A bloody shame we seem to have lost this latest batch of photos!? Don't tell me we're going into this kind of mode again..? ... sacrement !!!   I truly hope not. B~
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I hope the pictures are restored. I am not amused. Posting pictures to have them disappear is frustrating. Don shared his time and talent to show us excellent close ups and now. Gone. --dj--Joe
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I noticed a few days ago that a picture that I'd posted on page three had disappeared, just thought it was a blip. But now it seems it's not. I only post direct to the forum, I do not use hosting sites, so it can't be that...
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Thanks Joe, that makes me feel a little better. I was begining to think that it was just me....
D
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I wonder if the two holes drilled into the Bregenz 1943 badge were so it could be hung from another badge? Kind of like the D.Sch.V. badges.
--dj--Joe
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There must be more collectors of these badges.  Please share what you have. --dj--Joe
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Looks like it's just me then..... 
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Don,
Thanks for always showing because I love viewing your collection. These are just great. The WHW organized shooting matches and gave out some pretty nice awards as well. Thanks
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A nice set Don. Thank you for sharing. I'm still looking but not finding any. --dj--Joe
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Don,
To echo Mikee and Joe's comments again, yes, a big thanks for making time to share your impressive collection with us. There's an amazing diversity among these Tirolian-themed, shooting pins and badges. You've given us a good opportunity to look at, study and appreciate many of these delightful awards.
Best!
Bill
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Thank you Gentlemen for your kind words.
To tell you the truth, I'm having a devil of a job finding these things & it's driving me crazy.... The trouble is, to do the book I need an example of each badge to show, & ideally in each grade as above.
Ho hum. Glad that you like them at least.
Thanks
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Don, Your shooting badge collection is outstanding. Beautiful badges.
Ed
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Thank you Ed.
Here's a recent find, German rather than Austrian this time.
This features the Münchener Kindle from the Munich coat of arms. Although instead of holding a beer stein & radish (or a book as sometimes depicted), this one has a rifle....
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Intriguing badge Don. Congratulations once again on a nice find.
DSV - is that the D.Sch.V. without the ch?
--dj--Joe
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Intriguing badge Don. Congratulations once again on a nice find.
DSV - is that the D.Sch.V. without the ch?
--dj--Joe Thank you Joe. Yes, at least that is what I assume.... I also guess that the 16 has something to do with the area group? Cheers Don
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16 - could be unless it refers to the 16 days of Oktoberfest. --dj--Joe
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Joe,
Gotta hand it to you, you just might be on to something with that ... leastways it's a very good, logical thought.
Don,
Can't thank you enough for sharing the fruits of your collecting labors with us. Hopefully you'll be an inspiration to anyone with a sincere desire to collect things that aren't that well documented as of yet. I know it can be tough going and sometimes frustrating to collect in areas that haven't been thoroughly explored and understood. As far as I know you're a pioneer in this field of study and I truly wish you all the success in the world.
I wonder if a visit or inquiry to the München Hunting and Fishing Museum might pay off? Maybe someone on the staff could hook you up with a person who's knowledgeable in this area? There has to be somebody in Germany who's well versed in this field of study, possibly a person who doesn't frequent the internet sites? Maybe an "oldtimer" from one of the local shooting clubs near Munich? Just a thought ...
Best regards!
Bill
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Joe,
Could be....
Bill,
Thank you for your kind words.
I know the museum you mention, some beautiful displays. It may indeed be worth a try. I have not spoken to anyone in Germany, but I have found a strong reluctance within the Tirol to discuss anything from this period with "outsiders". Even the dealers there are not happy dealing with, as it was described to me, people from the winning side!! Even after all these years.....
Thanks again
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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After a drought lasting well over a year I have finally been able to add some pieces to my collection.
A few months back a fellow member agreed to sell me his collection of Tirol pieces (you know who you are & thank you!)... Then as usual just like waiting for a bus, a few other pieces appeared on the market.
Here are some scans of the pieces. Most came from the fellow collector & a few from other sources. 2014 has been a good year so far....
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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I see so many beautiful badges.
Don, you spoil us sharing so many rare pieces.
Thank you.
--dj--Joe
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On the Kreis Scheissen Landeck 1944 are there five grades? Iron, bronze, silver, gold, gold w. wreath.
--dj--Joe
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Hi Joe,
Thank you for your comments.
No, only the usual four grades (bronze silver gold & gold with leaves). If you are referring to the pieces in the above picture, they are from two different years. Bronze, silver & gold for 1943 (the silver is heavily patinated) & silver & gold with oakleaves for 1944.
Landeck basically used the same design for both '43 & '44. The only difference, apart from the year on them, was that the wreath on the '43 was enamelled & painted on the '44. Here is a pic, the gold on the '43 has faded & I suspect that the '44 has been repainted post war.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Thanks Don, I see now. Sensory overload, did not pay attention to detail. So many nice badges ~~~~ my eyes keep going back and forth. The Salurn stands out, made me do some research. Wish I could visit there. --dj--Joe
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Don,
WOW! What a great collection you have, I'm impressed that's for sure. Thank you!
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Thank you Gentlemen.
Joe. I haven't been to Salurn yet, it's on my list to visit. I managed to get to Kufstein last week. A beautiful little town, & the castle which is shown on their badges is very interesting.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Bringing this back around for any who may have missed it.
--dj--Joe
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Just picked this little piece up. I believe Bavarian.
The piece is a rich chocolate brown with dark green lettering & hard to see in the scan, I've tried to lighten it a little, hope you can see the details ok.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, I meant to comment on this and somehow got sidetracked ... glad Joe brought it round again. Really a fantastic bunch of goodies in that last big lot, some of the nicest shooting badges and pins I've ever seen. Great, clear reference photos too. It's always a pleasure seeing what unique gems you'll turn up next. Many thanks for taking time to treat us to your wonderful collection. Best regards! Bill
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Thank you Don for sharing your collection and all your efforts. Hopefully there are others who see this thread and would like to contribute to completing the few missing pieces. I wish that I could help.
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Thank you Gentlemen for your kind words. I'm pleased that you enjoy seeing them.
I'll see what else I can dig up....
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Don,
Thank you for posting the photos and information on the Shooting Badges. I have enjoyed learning about these awards in recent days!
Here are a couple of National Shooting Badges that I have.
Can you tell me if the 1939 Gold Badge is authentic? There is no maker's mark and the finish is wearing off. Everything else looks good to me. I appreciate any thoughts you might have.
Thanks!
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Hi UncleFred,
Thank you for you comments. I am sorry form my late reply, been a tad busy.
A couple of fine original badges you have there. What you see on the reverse of the gold 1939 is rust coming through the finish. These are magnetic & therfore ferric based. It is very common to see this on these.
Thank you for posting them
don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don,
Thank you for the information. I picked up the badges in Innsbruck and was pretty sure they were authentic. I haven't been able to find any additional badges, but will keep looking!
Thank you again.
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Hi,
How long ago did you get them? These days it is almost impossible to find these in Innsbruck. The Austrian authorities have cracked down heavily on the sale of NS items.
I was speaking to a couple of dealers when I was last there & they were saying that in the old days there were so many of them they couldn't give them away, now they just do not see them anymore.... People are just too afraid to try & pass them on.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don,
I think I found them about 15 years ago in an antique store just down the Maria-Theresa Strasse from the Old City in Innsbruck. I do not know the name of the place or if the shop is still there. I wish I had bought more when they were available! At the time my kids were young and money was tight. Now my kids are older and money is tighter!
Best Regards,
Fred
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As I mentioned on another thread I recently bought a large group of sports badges to get just one piece, a rare Landeck 1941 in gold with oakleaves.
As you will notice, there is no Swastika. Pieces without them are much harder to find, I guess they fall through the net because of this. GI's didn't bother to pick them up & Third Reich collectors aren't interested in them.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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That's a nice piece Don. I like the design. I assume there is also gold silver and bronze without the wreath?
--dj--Joe
Last edited by derjager; 03/29/2015 12:37 AM.
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That's a nice piece Don. I like the design. I assume there is also gold silver and bronze without the wreath?
--dj--Joe Thank you Joe. Yes you are correct, they also came in bronze, silver & gold. Alas the hunt is still on for those grades Don
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Bringing this back around for any who may have missed it. I find it most interesting.
--dj--Joe
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Joe, thanks for reminding me that I recently found the 1942 version as well..
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, a nice one.
--dj--Joe
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Time to revisit. Always in hopes of other collectors sharing something from their collections.
--dj--Joe
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Will pin this topic for a time.
--dj--Joe
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Hi Joe,
Here is a set that you may not have seen. I posted the silver grade here some years ago but have since managed to obtain the set.
Not from the Tirol, but Kaernten in Austria, which is better known in the West by it's English name of Carinthia.
Cheers
Don
Last edited by Don Scowen; 12/14/2017 09:15 AM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Don, A nice looking set. I do recall having seen your example from 2010. The design stuck with me. Thank you for sharing. Do they all share the distinctive pin retaining plate? --dj--Joe
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man! just when you think you've seen everything!! Excellent!
Thanks for showing Don!!
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Thank you Joe & Gaspare.
Yes Joe the pins have the same style crimped plates often seen on Klammer made pieces.
I'll see if I can dig some other pieces out to post.
Thanks
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Had a few minutes to sort through my collection.
Here is a very rare set from Bruneck South Tirol in 1944.
As many small badge collectors know, the use of enamel was prohibited as the war progressed. In 1944 six Kreis from the South Tirol held Kreisschiessen for the first time (Bruneck, Salurn, Bozen, Meran, Brixen, & Schlanders). The importance of the addition of these areas to the shooting calender can been seen by the fact that all of their badges were enamelled...
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Another South Tirol set, this one from Brixen, another tough one to find.... Again, fully enamelled.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Nice rare sets Don. I appreciate the chance to see them. Do I detect a line behind BRIXEN?
--dj--Joe
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Thanks Joe,
Yes the line appears on all of the Briixen badges so was part of the die. However it doesn't appear in any of the line drawings for the badge so wasn't part of the design. See the ad below for the shoots.
In case you are wondering, the chap on the badge is Oswald von Wolkenstein, a poet & composer from the 15th Century.
Last edited by Don Scowen; 08/27/2018 10:32 AM.
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No Badge for Meran?
--dj--Joe
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No Badge for Meran?
--dj--Joe Of course, here you go.... For some reason Meran badges are very hard to find in a decent condition. They tend to be de-Nazified, have damaged enamel or are corroded, I'm still looking to upgrade mine if I can...
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Good looking badges Don. I like the dragon. I see very little damage, mostly confined to the bronze. Touch of corrosion to the Gold.
Thanks for sharing.
Any specific pieces you are searching for?
--dj--Joe
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These are best condition ones that I have been able to find, some of the others have been in a terrible condition.....
There are still plenty of pieces I need, but of the South Tirol badges I'm only hunting for a couple from Bozen. I have the Silver (one of the first Kreisschiessen badges I found well over 10 years ago) & earlier this year I found the Gold with Oakleaves, but the Gold & Bronze grades have eluded me. I did hear from one of my friends this week that he thinks that he has found someone with a Bronze & will try to get it for me but I am not holding my breath.
Here is another tough set to find from the South Tirol, Salurn. As with the Brixen, these do not have the Swastika.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Don,
I remember when you showed the first Salurn badge. I looked it up then and again today. Interesting about Castle Salurn or Haderburg. Did you make a trek to Salurn?
The complete set looks impressive.
--dj--Joe
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Don,
I remember when you showed the first Salurn badge. I looked it up then and again today. Interesting about Castle Salurn or Haderburg. Did you make a trek to Salurn?
The complete set looks impressive.
--dj--Joe Joe, No I haven't made it that far yet. I've been to Meran & Schlanders (& also to Glurns whose wappen was used for the Schlanders badge, but that's a story for a later time...) Here are the Schlanders badges, again hard to find in a decent condition. D
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That's an eagle on the Meran badge also isn't it. Guess I had dragons on my mind that day. Bronze and silver badges seem to stand out to normally catch my eye but in the case of the Schlanders badge, it's the gold with oak leaves. Were the 1944 shoots well attended? --dj--Joe
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That's an eagle on the Meran badge also isn't it. Guess I had dragons on my mind that day. Bronze and silver badges seem to stand out to normally catch my eye but in the case of the Schlanders badge, it's the gold with oak leaves. Were the 1944 shoots well attended? --dj--Joe I prefer the bronze & silver grades as well. The shoots were surprisingly well attended considering that during May 1944 when these shoots were taking place the Allies were pushing up through Italy & were on the outskirts of Rome. At the Brixen Kreisschiessen for example 2616 marksmen shot at the KK stand & 1157 marksmen at the full bore stand. 249 Gold with Oakleaf badges were awarded, 236 Gold, 335 Silver & 280 Bronze.... D
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That is quite an event considering all the officials and support staff along with the marksmen.
--dj--Joe
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That is quite an event considering all the officials and support staff along with the marksmen.
--dj--Joe Yes, these were big, important festivals. Not only for propaganda, but also for morale which is why they allowed the use of enamel on the South Tirol pieces in 1944. Below are the only Kreisschiessen badges from the East Tirol, Lienz to be exact. 1944 was also their first official Kreisschiessen. I say "official" because they also held one in 1943, but did not have badges of their own to award, they used the small shield shaped general gauleistung lapel badges given out in Tirol-Vorarlberg. I haven't discovered an documented reason for this yet, but I suspect it was down to either late planning of the shoot of lack of funds.... Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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I recall you wrote elsewhere that a number of these showed up over a two year period. Over ordered surplus stored away and forgotten?
--dj--Joe
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I recall you wrote elsewhere that a number of these showed up over a two year period. Over ordered surplus stored away and forgotten?
--dj--Joe That is correct Joe. Ten years or so ago these were amongst the rarest of the Kreisschiessen badges, but these days the bronze, silver & gold grades are fairly common. This is due to a hoard being released onto the market a few years ago. I have managed to track down the person who obtained them from source & according to him a bag of badges were passed to him from someone connected with the current Lienzer shooting club. In the bag were a large number of bronze, silver & gold grades, but only 4 of the gold with oakleaf grade Kreismeister badges. There were also a large number of the 1943 lapel badges I mentioned earlier which ties in with the reports of these being issued at the 1943 Kreisschiessen. These badges are undoubtedly genuine as die characteristics match between known awarded pieces. However at some stage many of the hoard were, lets say, "refurbished"..... It seems that over the years somehow some of the paint seems to have been lost some how & the badges have been "touched up" or repainted to a degree. I have attached a picture showing one of the Kreismeister from the hoard beside a known awarded piece, the difference in the colours can clearly been seen so a collector can easily tell between badges from the hoard & awarded pieces. I must emphasize here that BOTH badges are GENUINE, & the die characteristics are clearly visable on both pieces. As to the reason for the hoard, according to period newspapers the badges were not available for the shoot (no reason was given). Sometime after the festival (I cannot remember exactly how long off the top of my head), a small advertisement appeared in the newspapers announcing that the badges were now available for collection on production of a score card showing eligibility to receive one. I imagine that the local marksmen would have collected their badges, but as many participants would have travelled quite large distances to attend, would they have bothered or been able to return to collect a badge? Also would everyone entitled to a badge have kept their score card? Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
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Don, I see the gold finish does not fare so well on many of these. I wonder why? They are magnetic so it's not due to zinc content leaching the finish.
--dj--Joe
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Don, I see the gold finish does not fare so well on many of these. I wonder why? They are magnetic so it's not due to zinc content leaching the finish.
--dj--Joe Indeed Joe, especially on the later badges from 1943 & 1944. With pieces like the Lienz Gold with Oakleaves, I believe that they were only very slightly sprayed with gold paint around the very edge of the Oakleaf wreath. All of the examples that I have seen of these are the same. Some of the Gold with Oakleaf badges were not painted with gold at all, even though they were referred to as such in the documentation, again I assume that it was down to war shortages etc but the Gold grades were painted but not the Oakleaf version. For example see the Dornbirn 1944 set below. Some of the badges were zinc based, such as the ones for Bludenz, Imst, & Reutte in 1943, these haven't lasted at all well & we often have to rely on the pin & plate to establish the grade. D
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Been a while since I have been able to complete a set, but this last couple of weeks I've managed to complete 2....
Landeck 1941
Last edited by Don Scowen; 08/21/2019 02:30 PM.
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And Schwaz 1941.....
Last edited by Don Scowen; 08/21/2019 02:30 PM.
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Don, You always make my day, I love it every time you post.
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Thank you Mikee, it's very kind of you to say so..... And would you believe it, another piece arrived in the post this morning which will complete another set. I'll post that one later.... It will probably be another year before I find another piece that I need.
Cheers
Don
Last edited by Don Scowen; 08/23/2019 12:40 PM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Very nice Don.
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Thamk you Joe,
As mentioned yesterday, here is the set for Reutte 1944 which I was able to complete this week with the addition of the bronze grade. I've been searching for it for almost 10 years....
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, an interesting set with the central device staying bronze through all the grades.
--dj--Joe
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Yes Joe, I assumed that the bronze would be the same all over rather than just the centre. However as none of the Tiroler collectors that I know had seen one I couldn't be sure until I found one.
D
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, sure is interesting! I don't believe I have come across these. I was off this site for awhile so I have to catch up and go through all these old threads.
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Thank you again Mikee. Indeed I do believe that this area is underrated, especially considering the rarity of some pieces. In some cases less than 100 badges were awarded at the events, although more must have been manufactured.
Cheers
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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For once a non Tirol piece!!!
This nice little badge came in with a group of Tiroler pieces that recently came in. As it's not in my collecting field it will need a new home at some point but I thought that I'd share it here while I still have it.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Well, that is a bird of a different feather. Swas. date ranges it. Too bad they didn't put a specific date on it. Not unheard of by any means though. Wonder why they started to enhance the wing with a cut out then quit? I like the green enamel.
Great find Don.
--dj--Joe
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Thank you Joe, I'm glad that you like it.
I've been wondering about the cut as well. At one point I was thinking that maybe the finisher thought that the < shape should have been cut out & then realised that it was a ribbon running around the edge? We will never know.
One reason put forward for not dating some shooting badges was that it was cheaper. They could buy more, keeping the cost per piece down & use them for multiple shoots in different years. It could also be that this is a membership badge rather than a qualification badge, in which case no date would be needed....
D
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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This week I have finally managed to complete my set from Bozen with the addition of the gold grade. This also means that my collection from the South Tirol is now complete, just the rest of the Tirol to find now :cry:
You will notice as mentioned before that once again to show the importance of this event in 1944 the badges were enamelled.... The badge depicts Walther von der Vogelweide, a composer & lyrical poet from the 12th century.
Hope that you like them.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Wonderful, Don.
Congratulations.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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WOW! Don congratulations!
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"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Another nice set Don. I imagine it took much searching to put it and the others together.
Thanks for sharing. It is greatly appreciated.
--dj--Joe
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Thank you Joe.
Yes, the silver Bozen badge was the first of the South Tirol badges that I came across around 10 years ago. It?s interesting that the gold badge was the last to find.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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This week I was able to add my first piece in almost 2 years & complete a group too! I finally managed to find a bronze grade Schwaz 1944....
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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- yeah that Hessler piece with the dark green enamel is striking!
Well, you seem to be on a good run Don...
What most don't realize is that when trying to complete sets, etc. it can sometimes take years to finally find what you've been looing for! , Also to non collectors,,, the piece doesn't have to be some grand sized , super rare, $40k. piece.. Sometimes the simplest piece will make it like you found the $40k super piece!...
Keep up the good hunting,,and thanks for showing us these sets!...,G.
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Nice looking set Don.
1944 - are they hollow back or solid back?
--dj--Joe
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Thank you Gentlemen.
You are so right Gaspare, I still have groups that I have been searching for just one piece to complete them for over 15 years...... When I spotted the bronze Schwaz below, my heart skipped a beat as I couldn't believe my eyes....
Hollow back Joe.
Last edited by Don Scowen; 11/11/2022 07:11 AM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Digging about in my stickpin box I came across a couple of very small generic shooting pins. One in bronze for 1942.....
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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And this one in silver for 1944...
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don,
Another new style for me. Do not appear to be mass-produced. Some region's generic shooting badge? I will keep an eye out for additional award classes for you.
--dj--Joe
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Thanks Joe. I'd appreciate it, I've never seen any other examples, they are however shown in Hüsken's catalogue....
D
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Another pair of generic D.Sch.V stickpins from my box of delights. Like the previosu pins, I've no idea whether these were from a specific area or not, or whether they came in bronze & silver as well or just with & without wreath.
Someone at some point has tried to de-nazify the honour version as it is noticeably scratched around the Swastika area. I've never been able to upgrade it so it will do for now.
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Those are interesting Don. At least I've seen examples of them before. No maker marks I see.
The D.Sch.V. had quite a variety of badges.
thanks for showing them.
--dj--Joe
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Don, Very nice pins and badges
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Thank you Gentlemen. I'll have a dig about in my boxes & see what else I have.
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Here's one that I do not think I have posted anywhere before....
Oktoberfest Landesschiessen 1934 Gesellschafts Meisterschütze... Marked 800 on the reverse.
The OKtoberfest Landesschiessen held in Munich each year is still going strong today.
Last edited by Don Scowen; 03/14/2023 03:01 PM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, definitely one I have not seen before. Do I see a silver content stamp on a slightly concave upper reverse?
--dj--Joe
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"Oktoberfest Landesschiessen 1934 Gesellschafts Meisterschütze." Dam,,, is that even listed in any reference books?!? What a piece. Looks big too,,,and by that pin looks jeweler made.. Very Nice,,,thanks for showing Don..
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Thank you again Gentlemen. It's nice to see some of these again myself, I have had them in storage for a number of years....
Joe; Yes it's 800 marked.
Gaspare; I've never seen in any of the books either.... It's 1.5 inches top to bottom.
D
Last edited by Don Scowen; 03/17/2023 12:58 PM.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don,
That is one nice shooting medal.
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Thank you Mikee.
Gaspare; I was wrong when I said that I'd not seen it in a book. I was flicking through the last Hüsken catalgue yesterday, something that I haven't done in a while & came across it hidden away at the bottom of a page. It also shows the badge for the following year 1935, which I've yet to encounter....
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Correction, looking again I think it's the previous year, 1933....
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Agree it appears to be 33.
Wonder how many of these are squirreled away in old tinnie collections?
--dj--Joe
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Going trough some old images, discovered I have not posted these. 1941 WehrmannGewehr and a 1942 Wehrmann. Both gold with wreath.
--dj--Joe
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Very nice Joe!
Here is another tiny piece from the October Fest landesschiessen, this time from 1938.
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Don, they had to abbreviate like crazy to get all that information on there. A good looking stick pin award. Different grades? --dj--Joe
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Different grades? --dj--Joe Possibly, but I've ony seen them in gold...
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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Here's a nice little pin that I recently came across, Burger Schützen Gesellschaft Göttingen, a shooting group who are still in existance today.... The pin is unmarked to the reverse.
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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I wonder how many lapel pins were considered appropriate for wear at a given time? If indeed it mattered and one could wear as many at once as earned.
I recall a few period in-wear pictures of multiple lapel pins worn.
Nice piece Don. A lot of history behind that pin.
--dj--Joe
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Thanks Joe. I'm not sure that there were any regs when it came to civil type pins. I've seen images where they have their hats covered with pins....
Don
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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This is an intriguing little pieces.
2nd Einzel - Meister.... Marked to Jos. Aschka, München to the reverse.
Aschka was a prolific manufacturer of hunting & shooting medals & plaques etc post war. I've seen many items from the 1950's onwards but this is the first which appears to be pre 1945, however I have found the comapny listed in a 1930 Munich business directory as a seller & repairer of clocks & goldware. The manufacture is consistent with period & it is obvious under magnification that it is die struck. Genuine pre 1945 or post war fantasy?
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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It does have period resemblance. Does the finish appear old to you Don?
Hard to believe it would be high dollar enough to create post war.
Do you read it as 2nd. individual Meister?
--dj--Joe
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Yes, the construction & feel are period to me, die struck with shear marks on the edge. It also has patina etc under magnification around the pin plate etc. It was very cheap, only a few £'s. Less than a cost of a tinnie which is why I took a chance on it. I forgot to say that it is small, 2.5cm top to bottom 1.5cm across.
Yes I read the same. I do know that in a lot of competitions marksmen would shoot in team event as well as solo, so maybe related to that?
"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"
Galadriel, LotR.
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