UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum Lets see some black!

Jim

I must say I have seen pics of your visor,
and its outstanding but these pics look like
happy hour has arrived!

Take the lens cap off ol buddy!

Ok I have had my fun Jimmmy!!!!!!!!

Thanks to all who have shown or commented!

Anybody need pics rezized or posted please
contact me and I will be glad to post them!

Come on you lurkers with all the goodies
that faithfuly look but no show!


PVON

Ein Bild dazu! This cap was the property of a member of the Reiter Sta. of the Allgemeine SS in Lower Bavaria. As in the other examples, one can see where the later badge was added....

Noch ein Bild! Viel Sammlerglueck. An officers cap, with a somewhat more Tellermuetze like appearance. The cap buttons are dated 1937, and the piece is missing its RZM tag. These are all images of pieces which I have examined and passed onto others in the constant struggle against fakes and frauds.

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Abenheim:
Ein Bild dazu! This cap was the property of a member of the Reiter Sta. of the Allgemeine SS in Lower Bavaria. As in the other examples, one can see where the later badge was added....

And here, the interior of same...

Some cap badges of note.... I posted this before. The former property of an officer in the Sudetenland, in the Eger region, near Karlsbad or present day Karlovy Vary in the Czech Republic. This cap is also illustrated in the Wilkins book.

Another image of interest.

Thank you Donald for posting some delightful hats and for keeping this thread going. Here is an interesting hat. It shows the length of time a hat could be kept in service and is a testament to the frugality of the 1930's. The early SS-Gruppe marked interior is from 1933/4 but the cap was obviously put to use for a few more years as the eagle has been replaced with a '36 one. Interestingly it is sewn on through three tiny drilled holes in the eagle a feature I have usually only seen on wartime hats. The visor is an RZM proofed one and therefore probably was also replaced. The hat came out of a Motel buy many decades ago before today's extraordinary prices and skullduggery.
Derek

Interior

An extraordinary piece of great interest. I wonder who did the repairs, and how one secured a peak with the RZM/SS proofs? Riddles in enigmas. Many warm thanks. Thus, the Gruppe West imprint here is from 1933/4? The designation itself was phased out thereafter? I cannot recall. Many warm thanks for your images from your magisterial collection. Postscriptum: Do you think that the variant with the runes, the stamp on the visor,and the tag or tags emerged in 1934? This is my wild guess, granted what is in Mollo as well as what is in the 2dary works on the Verwaltungsamt-SS.

Superb pictures and info!

Thanks for sharing!

PaulV

Here is another nice image. The front of the Mueller cap posted above. Viel Sammerlglueck.

The tag of said cap, also seen in the Wilkins book, in fact. A piece from 1935/6. Many of the black Sonderanfertigung officer caps came from Mueller. An example of much later date (1939? 1940?) is, in fact, for sale at this very moment, and has oddly been shunned by the collector cosmos because it departs from the textbook. It has no runes in the lining and is devoid of the acceptance stamp. Other makers of the Sonderanfertigung cap in my experience are Opolka & Mueller as well as Isken. According to the 2dary sources, the latter Cologne maker is denied to have made caps at all in the III. Reich--a glaring error. I have seen four or more black SS caps alone from this firm.

The interior of this later Sonderanfertigung, which is less remarkable--but real all the same. The black caps were still for sale via the Kleiderkasse at the end of 1940.

The tag of same.

Wow, really superb pieces. I wish I had something to add. I may have waited too long to get serious...

There is no time like the present. This material was always expensive, but now it seems truly to have become unaffordable. However, if we are doomed to live through the '70's again, with stagflation or whatever, then who knows where the prices will go. Such is not my thing. My desire remains to unravel the least detail of these odd remnants of the past and to use said knowledge to defeat the fakers. suum cuique!

Donald & Derek, many thanks for sharing these extravagance caps with us. Noy often seen caps and very rar.

quote:

Originally posted by Robert H.:
Donald & Derek, many thanks for sharing these extravagance caps with us. Noy often seen caps and very rar.

Thanks to you, colleague. We need to stick together in all of this, lest we be suffocated by fakes and too many dubious collar patches.

Some wonderful pieces shown here.

My own "black" obsession has now gone over to Waffen-SS Panzer.........

Zum Thema Sonderanfertigung noch ein Bild. A cousin of the officer's cap, but for the OR. It was a cap identical to this that I found in 1971 for the staggering sum of 125 dollars. My first serious encounter with fetid black woolens, other than Breuer fakes. It did not have this tag. Our colleague in Arizona has its older sibling. The cap I have shown here is from the end of these kind of things, which my SWAG would be around 1940/1. Had the officer's cap I illustrated above the same runes imprint, it would likely have sold. However, the lining of the two caps is identical. The officer's Sonderanfertigung is made of a particularly plush melton wool, described in the Kleiderkasse SS price list. These caps seem often to come with a paper sweat band, which is odd, but maybe such was a means to reduce the price. The riddles of the past....

Here is the tag for this extra wear OR cap of the last gasp of black woolens in the III. Reich. A word to those who seek the truth. By the wonders of technology, you and I can amass a store of knowledge far in excess of what might have been the case in 1970. Those serious about this kind of headwear would do well to download as much as this data as is humanly possible. The empirical data here is staggering, especially for thise gifted with a keen eye and and analytical mind.

Here a very different and much earlier tag in a Sonderanfertigung for an officer, in this case the very rare variant from Isken/Koeln. This example at hand is also an authentic version of this tag, versus the legion examples of fakes. This is also the type of tag found in the Mollo book, and hence has double entertaintment value as a result. One seldom finds these kinds of tags in officer caps; rather, the black tags above predominate. The Opolka & Mueller tag is likely even earlier than this piece, or maybe not. Who knows, for I do not...

Here is how the rest of the interior looked on this Sonderanfertigung piece. It was gem, which now resides in a major collection. This cap had the RFSS tag, as well as the early tag--quite a thing, to be sure. Notice that this interior was a pumpkin-ish orange color of silk (versus the yellow-ish custard sort of color in many examples...), and in this case, real silk, as one finds in the early caps. The cap cover was an extremely fine trikot, much superior to that found in the average Lieferungsmuetze for enlisted ranks. Isken made excellent caps for the SS, in fact. This cap was the property of Shea before it was retailed. It cost 8500 dollars and was the cause of an uproar in early 2003. Today the average, nice enlisted Lieferungsmuetze for the Allgemeine SS has covered much of this ground in price, so I shudder to think what this piece might fetch, were it to emerge from its present home. Viel Sammlerglueck to its owner and to all seekers of knowledge via fetid black woolens whereever you may be.

Here is another of the early SS type tags, widely copied. However, this example is quite real. This cap was was the property of Darryl Pajot.

A tag in an officer's cap ca. 1938 or so. This style of tag was introduced in about 1937/8. Compare it to the tags in the Sonderanfertigungen above. This cap has the normal black lining, without any runes on the rhombus. This type is also copied, but not very well. Key details are botched...

The exterior of said hat above resembles this image.

An interior view of same. This sort of thing is now well faked, but the copies cannot compare to the originals.....

a side view, of an example with a modest saddle shape...

as compared to this piece, as seen above in various images. Both this cap and the one above from the same Munich firm. Made by the same craftsman a couple of years apart? No man can say....

You guys have some truely breathtaking pieces!!! It was a real treat to see them!

Regards
PAul

A further comparison of two caps I looked at in the endless quest for fetid black woolens... on the left, the Isken Sonderanfertigung ca. 1935/6, on the right, a Mueller Lieferungsmuetze ca. 1938/9. These images illustrate one criterion I seek in a cap: the cap band should be proportioned properly. The fakes always bollix up said detail. Viel Sammlerglueck.

Gorgeous hats, thanks for posting these pictures. Here to add to the party is an extremely early and very interesting kepi. This kepi has been constructed with a complete metal spring opera hat mechanism and thus can be folded flat and snapped open. The lining shows the DRGM number for this highly unusual feature. The mechanical elements have caused wear to the blue silk lining as you can see but it is in remarkable condition for its age. A scarce surviving example.

Lining

Wow, and with a leather visor too. I've never seen one of these before.

I am really pleased that we are seeing so many
nice items and info!

Here is a SS nco visor that came out of the woodwork couple yrs ago!

$500.00 Seems like a lifetime ao!

Not the first time I have recieved one from vet
with SA eagle or army on it!

PVON

inside

skull
from one of the visors

inside of a nco

inside

paper which was cost factor I quess!