UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum LUFTWAFFE SURVIVAL MACHETE - ALCOSO

And what to my wondering eyes did appear, but a little eagle with 883. What a coincidence. Or was it. Both police contracts. The P.S.s. appeared first in the 1940 Fischer police weapons manual. Perhaps they were produced in the same general time frame. But here we have two seemingly unrelated pieces with the same accepted scabbard springs. Well, they are not so unrelated are they. They are both police procured.

For the record, my steel frame saw-tooth machete with later Alcoso trademark had NO marks on the scabbard springs.

Joe, Now we are getting somewhere!! I know that at the moment we don't see eye to eye. Also being a gun collector, I also know the tremendous amount of invaluable information that you have contributed in that collecting area. And I really did not want to get into any kind of a confrontational discussion even though there is some disagreement.

I don't know if the scabbard is still apart or not. But could we see if the springs are what caused the markings on the blades in the pictures? In a side by side image, springs alongside the blade?

I know that there are some steel hilted examples out there as well. I wouldn't want to do it to a "minty" example, but has anyone besides Bret and Joe looked inside theirs to check for markings, hilt included? Best Regards, Fred

Getting somewhere? Fred, we are there.

There has been no confrontation. Just a thorough debate.

Perhaps someone can explain how some collectors who pop in to leave their two cents can accept steel machetes with less documentation than the brass versions.

Of course the springs caused the wear marks. The fit perfectly to the curves in the springs. Did someone think they blade marks were caused by whacking too much sugar cane in Costa Rica? I wonder how that Urban Legend started.

Finis.

I spoke with Tom J. this am on this very subject. I had ask if he had anything further to add to what he had published in Vol 3 of his reference. I had ask if at any point he remembers seeing these "show up" at shows? the answer was no. I had ask if he or anyone he had come in contact with had vet purchased one of these the answer again was no. I ask if he had any type of futher reference on these other than what was listed, ie; photos,documentation,records hell anything at all? again the answer was no.I think that what he publised is what their was then and till now. While it may not be my place to say this i will anyway. I feel that he should not be dragged over the coals for lack of information. He chooses not to post directly thats his choice. I did not ask why it dont matter a hil o beans to me either way. If someone wants to ask him a question then he seems to be quite easy to reach.
I think that with what Joe has shown here on the scabbard runners is worth an addition in his next book on the subject, if and when that happens. I have been busy with my hang tag information and was very happy to see the new info posted here!!!
I will take out my runner system friday or sat and post that info. I just didnt have the time the past few days. I think if anyone doubts the use of the brass hilted ones now Joe has got the proof. The scabbards with the single screw may be easier to take down. Wow! about all I can say.
Whos says this forum suxs? SCORE!!!
Bret Van Sant

Joe, It was before my time, but I think that a part of the story may have originated with some officer's swords that were converted to Third Reich. Beyond that I don’t know.

I’m not trying to get the ball rolling again, but in the spirit of sharing, here are some export model bayonets from Solingen that have Waffenamts. One has the “883” Waffenamt, and the other is the “519”. The blades have wear marks from guys taking the blades in and out of the scabbard. Also visible I think is the same kind of localized wear, and maybe a touch of electrolysis (?) damage caused by the spring contact areas like on the machetes. Unlike some of the earlier export issues which came from there, or its colonial possessions. Neither of these appears to have ever been issued or mounted on a rifle, showing only some minor evidence of storage. Best Regards, Fred

more proof for the puddin'

the other side!

Well Bret / Joe / Fred.

This great new information with documented pics makes the Brass version 100% orginal.

LH

Thanks Bret.Same stampings as in my police Flieger-Staffel Buschmesser, as well as my police PSs converted S98/05. In addition to the bayonets your posted Fred, the BCN points out that WaA883 was used in many factories around Solingen. That WaA 883 can also be found on a 1940 dated MG34 carrier part on Brpgun.com.

No Jarle, the brass Buschmesser was always 100% original. The additional information is just icing on the cake.

quote:

Originally posted by JWotka:
Thanks Bret.Same stampings as in my police Flieger-Staffel Buschmesser, as well as my police PSs converted S98/05. In addition to the bayonets your posted Fred, the BCN points out that WaA883 was used in many factories around Solingen. That WaA 883 can also be found on a 1940 dated MG34 carrier part on Brpgun.com.

No Jarle, the brass Buschmesser was always 100% original. The additional information is just icing on the cake.

WOW Joe, i need one Renault Cognac now
Thanks for all your help making this tread to the final cut..

I will also thanks all the other posting members ,Fred & Bret for theyr informations.


LH

Joe,

Thank you for all of the information on the machetes. I have several brass hilted models one of which came from a German airfield in France. Your information on the subject has been very enlightening.

Richard Kuchta

I stand corrected. Earlier in the thread I said I was unsure about the authenticity of the brass versions. This was really just a feeling based on the fact that as far as I can remember these appeared on the collecting scene rather late and I just did not think they looked "right". Some did not like my saying I was unsure. Of course I never had taken one apart-so now I am convinced that the brass ones are period. I'll try not to be unsure again

JWotka, never be against any opinions based on any matter. It look they existed really but I also think they where produced for export after 1945 too.

quote:

Originally posted by dietzwaffen:
LH:
YOU MENTION ON YOUR POSTING OF 8 FEB. THAT THE MACHETE OWNED BY A FRIEND OF YOUR WAS FOUND IN A LUFTWAFFE M-30 SURVIVAL DRILLING CASE. WAS THE DRILLING STILL IN THE CASE?

Hi Bob
Yes the Drilling was in the case include /sling/ Flag / Machete shown before here in the tread.+ many more things
All include inside this Sauer marked Case M 30


Sauer marked M30 case
Regards LH

The second is the open case, the marking flag is below the drilling and when I originally opened the case, the machete was nestled next to the receiver.



Here is a closeup of the 3 barrel arrangement


Here is a close-up of the stock marking




finally, here is the marking flag as you see it out of the box, with the tie end to go around the wing of the downed aircraft. Machete with the short guard is the one I found in the box and that is seen above
the machete was was laying parallel to the receiver, with the handle next to and on the cartridge box and the blade towards the left side of the picture.

Note the Orginal sling far left !



Enjoy the pics.

Regards LH
This case & Drilling its not into my collection, but a friends

Some info of the last Machete here :

Alcoso marked and exactly like others displayed examples.
Except the guard was a short brass oval. Other than that, the configuration and maker marking was exactly the same as the standard machete.

LH

quote:

Originally posted by LH 600:
Some info of the last Machete here :

Alcoso marked and exactly like others displayed examples.
Except the guard was a [short brass] oval.EDIT : BLUED STEEL Other than that, the configuration and maker marking was exactly the same as the standard machete.

LH

New info of the short crossguard Machete.
I ask the owner of this some questions about the crossguard.
--------
It is blued steel and it does appear that the regular arms were ground off, and it appears to be very professionally done. The end result is an oval and I must say that if you hadn't asked, I would never have thought to look under a magnifying glass
----------

quote:

Originally posted by dietzwaffen:
LH:
YOU MENTION ON YOUR POSTING OF 8 FEB. THAT THE MACHETE OWNED BY A FRIEND OF YOUR WAS FOUND IN A LUFTWAFFE M-30 SURVIVAL DRILLING CASE. WAS THE DRILLING STILL IN THE CASE? IF SO WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO GET SOME INFORMATION FROM YOUR FRIEND AS TO SERIAL NUMBER, DATE OF MFG AND WHAT LUFTWAFFE ACCEPTANCE STAMP IS ON THE LOCKING LUGS (L OR L2). IF THERE WAS NOT A DRILLING IN THE CASE, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE CASE MIGHT BE FOR SALE?
THANKS,
BOB

Hi Bob
I have add some info and pics for you.
What do you think of it ?

LH