UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Fire Bayonet Thread

here's my Alcoso inventory marked long Feuerwehr bayo, thanks for this thread, the is the most instructive on the subject I've seen...regards.

Hey Nacho,

Thanks for posting your Alcoso. A nice early mark for the 3R, I've also seen this mark on Weimar polizei bayonets so I guess it was used through the Weimar period into the 3R zeit. That's a great inventory mark as well, is the scabbard similarly marked? Here's my early Alcoso with the same mark with nice early tan felt blade buffer. This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a short model with magnetic pommel.

While we're on the topic of Alcoso, here's a later variation on a sawback fireman's bayonet. Notice the small differences in the "teardrop" portion of the scales as well. This bayonet was a quick Eban find back in the day.

This mark is on a nicely conditioned short model sawback with magnetic pommel.

The three Alcoso TM's.

Terry/Billy:

Have you ever seen the late AWS Alcoso TM on fire or other KS98 bayos?

John

John,

I've never seen the AWS trademark on a dress bayonet although I'm on the lookout & it's on my short list

We've all seen that cute reclining lion logo of C. Lütters & Cie, Löwenwerk. I remember first seeing it & not knowing which company it was for. Fisher's lists Lütters as having been established in 1840 & still in operation as late as 2002, wow. Talk about staying power. They're attributed as having manufactured Heer daggers, HJ knives & dress bayonets.

This bayonet is a nice early example showing all the quality of that prewar period. As with many smaller manufacturers' fire bayonets, this one shows an Eickhorn pommel & sweet swooping Eick crossguard.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of a short model with narrow blood groove & magnetic pommel.

I've seen 2 variations of the Lütters logo & this one is the lesser seen of the 2. This mark shows the same reclining lion (albeit smaller) but with the Lütters name in an arc over the cat with the location of Solingen beneath. This example is identical to the preceeding one in that it shows signs of early manufacture with Eickhorn parts. I really have found the early Eick produced bayonets are some of the best IMO.

This mark is in the reverse ricasso of a short model with wide blood groove & magnetic pommel.

Here is another Lütters variation that I don't have. This one was on Eban recently but sadly had what I thought to be postwar altered grips It had a pitted & sharpened blade, the seller was looking for $175.

How about a Max Weyersberg

A beauty indeed Terry. I have not seen a Weyersberg TM-marked fire bayonet to date. Seeing it in such a nice mint shape only adds value to it. Thanks for sharing.

JAN

Terry,

That's the mintest Max W. I've seen ever, but then again I've only seen maybe 5 of them total. A beautifully conditioned bayonet, how does he do it? This nark is on the reverse ricasso of a short model with middle width blood groove, somewhere in between the narrow & wide types & magnetic pommel.


Jan,

Stick around long enough, we'll find you one

What is interesting is the S on Solingen. The name is in upper case but the S is larger, a bit strange. On Billys bayonet the bottom of the S aligns with the bottom of the rest of the letters in Solingen. On the one I posted the S in Solingen extends above and below the rest of the letters in Solingen.

OK I'm nitpicking but thats the way I am.

Here's another Weyersberg heard from, this one Paul Weyersberg. This is the PW logo inside the elipse that's seen on DRP bayonets & the occasional KS98. Not a common mark on any bayonet & isn't that what makes it a little more special? Only seen this mark on a fire bayonet twice, Wittmann had the other. He may still have it.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of an early long model with magnetic pommel.

Terry,

Good spot on the Solingen "S". I'm with you, it's all in the minutae.

Thanks for all the comments on my bayonets. I do have some that are nice condition but I also have a few dogs. As I have said before, condition is everything, well some times you have to give a little. I gave alot when I bought this one.

Most unlike you Terry, that bayonet MUST have something special, so tell us!

Here is another dog, Johann Kirch, MAGDEBERG

Terry,

Another beauty, love those dual marked units too. Here's my Johann Kirch, Magdeburg which is dual marked to Eickhorn like yours. Another scarce distributor, Hans Grunwald also operated out of Magdeburg as well. Mine is pretty mint & typical of Eickhorns showing the '35-'41 mark.

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a long model with nonmagnetic pommel.

Speaking of dogs, I've had this mutt for a long time. It's the mark of JG Merz. It came off Eban & I knew what I was getting when I bid on it. At the time I thought I'd be able to upgrade it at some time but after 5 or 6 years I have yet to see another. Someone had a beater Heer dagger with the same deeply stamped mark but that's the only times I've seen this mark on a blade. Haven't been able to find out anything on this shop either, maybe someday.

This mark is on the obverse ricasso of a late production short model with wide blood groove & nonmagnetic pommel.

Besides the Merz being a super rare mark, this one was also double marked to Puma on the reverse ricasso so I had to have it despite the condition. You can really see the poor blade condition in this shot but that said I love the piece all the same. That is until a better one comes along.

I'm sure many of you can relate when this type of situation comes along, a piece you know you want/need but the condition is less than desired. What to do? Especially when the asking price stays low it's an easy call but not so much when the price goes up. I'm sure the condition of this one kept most people away which was good because I knew it was a diamond in the rough. The very rough.

Some computer problems have contributed to my failure to post any additional logos recently. In my haste to correct things I may have deleted a bunch of my logo shots. I'll work on reshooting the ones I no longer have.

In the interim I thought I'd post a nice sawback that just came in from the cold. Great short sawback blade marked by WKC but what's with the unusual crossguard?

Half a crossguard & now a grip emblem? OK, a so called late period Feuerschutzpolizei bayonet right?

I know what many of you are thinking, postwar added emblem that's inappropriate for a bayonet & a fireman's bayonet sawback blade added to a standard KS98 hilt. I too would think this except that I've heard about these rare pieces for years. George Wheeler showed one in his excellent reference "Seitengewehr". Gary Walker & Ron Weinand pictured one in their terrific book "German Clamshells & other bayonets". I've also seen an odd picture or two on GD & WAF but suffice it to say these bayonets are not often seen.

This piece exhibits the details that have been attributed to this style bayonet, unplated hilt configuration, short sawback blade marked by WKC & a large sword type copper grip emblem pinned to the hilt through the grip plate. I've also read about long models, I believe the one in Walker & Weinand's book attributed to Bob Hritz had a 25 cm blade. Some have been noted to have plain blades & some were unmarked.

It's been said that there is no period reference to this style bayonet. A scary prospect if one pays dearly for any item but there seems to be enough consistency in the pieces I've seen to allay my fears.

I'd love to see pictures of any others out there in members' collections.

Here's a better obverse shot with the original frog that came attached to the scabbard. The frog, interestingly enough, has a patterned texture that resembles a fine patchwork, I tried to get a good view of this in the picture. This is something I've never seen before on the usually seen 3R patent leather frogs.

This frog also has a distinct smell of rubber & I've read of some late war frogs being constructed from radiator hoses & some other such stuff. Is there any truth to this?

Time to get this thread up & running again, picked up some nice pieces recently so I should have plenty of ammo to continue. Among interesting recent pick ups was a nice Linnenbrugger & Ellermann variation logo with similarly marked frog which I'll be posting shortly.

Here's a venerable old Solingen manufacturer whos mark we see on a variety of edged weapons, Clemen & Jung, Waffen- u. Metallwarenfabrik, Solingen. According to Fisher's, the company was established in 1860. From experience here on GD & in my own collecting I know C&J had contracts with Polizei & Customs organizations. C&J's mark is not often seen on dress bayonets of any type & the same is true for fireman's pieces.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of an early production short model bayonet with wide blood groove & magnetic pommel.

I had never seen any variation in the Clemen & Jung logo on fireman's bayonets. Until recently the only mark I had observed was the stylized "Z" inside a shield, identical to a C&J mark I have on several Polizei & Customs bayonets. Then came this piece, courtesy of Dr. John Merling

It's mark includes the same "Z" mark, albeit smaller than the preceeding piece, with the name spelled out in 2 lines. This piece is also of early production & has a noticeably heavy hilt, certainly made of well fitted quality parts. The hilt looks to be of Eickhorn's manufacture which IMO were some of the best made bayonets of the 3R.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of an early production long model bayonet with magnetic pommel.

This Lungstrass was a recent pickup. Pretty sure we posted one earlier, this mark is a wider version of the logo already shown, a hanging lightbulb with shade. This one also looks like the factory stamper was on steroids, very heavily stamped indeed. Fisher's shows Peter Lungstrass, Stahlwarenfabrik, Solingen-Ohligs as having been established in 1900 & I can say from experience that this mark is not often seen on anything. Fisher lists Lungstrass's products as SA/NSKK daggers as well as HJ knives. We also know they made at least a few dress bayonets too.

This piece is clearly not mint & shows it's age. That said, it's an early production piece with that venerable Eickhorn pommel & wide armed crossguard, I almost felt obligated to bring it back to the land of the living. Actually the age is mostly restricted to the pommel which has some darkening, the blade buffer did it's job as this blade is still pretty shiny & free of rust & pits.

This mark is on the reverse ricasso of an early production long model with magnetic pommel.

Billy:

WOW!

John

Recently addition to my collection.Getting bigger
1.Carl Henkel.Short version.Late war, non magnetic hilt.Scabbard still has inventory number, which is unusual.
2. Eickhorn. Common ,but very nice condition, blade is near mint

pic.2

pic.3

pic.4

eick1

eick2

eick3

Billy

I love the Clemen & Jung. What is neat is that the name or the logo is upside down. I have seen Heer bayonets with both the logo and name being orientated the same way. Maybe the logo stamper feel asleep at the factory. I also love the large logo Lungstrass. Nice variations.

Andrei,

Very nice pieces, thanks for posting them. Carl Henkel is tough to find in a short model, I snagged one but it took years. The Eick, while a common maker, is still a super bayonet. I really think Eickhorn made some of the best quality bayonets of the period. Eick products also show a very nicely shaped pommel & wide armed crossguard which is quite distinctive. Differences in fire bayonets can be quite subtle but they are there & Eicks always stick out.

Terry,

Thanks, I love the C&J too. It's an early Eick product & is just nice & tight. I didn't notice the upside down logo until I got it home, although I knew it had both the "Z" & compay name which was different from the one I already had which only showed the shield & "Z".

The Lungstrass is also an early Eick product but sad to say it obviously wasn't stored as well. While there is darkening & some pepper marks, the blade is still in great shape & I didn't overpay for it. I just checked my other Lungstrass, same logo but 1/2 the size & very lightly stamped. I think yours is the same. It's funny but I still get a jolt at finding a new maker or logo.

Here is an example of a C & J with the logo and name in the same orientation

Terry,

Interesting to see that the mark appears in both directions. Considering some are upside down, I would think that maybe the worker who was in charge of stampings might have been known to start his weekends early C&J is definitely a scarce mark to see on dress bayonets.

My brothers Firemans bayonet.