UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Ivory Grip Photos - for reference.

I always get a little disturbed when I see suggestions regarding using a hot pin to identify ivory! Normally this should not be required because if you know what to look for ivory is usually easily identified. Trouble is I have always found it hard to photograph! Anyway here goes! Hopefully it will show in these photos of an Emil Voos engraved Luft grip. Often ivory will have crack lines running longways through the grip as can be seen in these photos. The other thing it has is the semi-circular swirl lines which you will see if you turn the grip to certain lights or along its sides. I hope this pattern shows in the photos!

2nd Photo

Great photographs & a very fine looking grip too!

Great photo's and a nice grip. One thing has always puzzled me about the attitude of dagger collectors with regard to ivory grips and that is that 'cracks' in the ivory are often described as 'desirable'. Ivory is a natural and at one time living material and subject to shrinkage and adverse storage conditions. Many antique dealers who specialise in ivory sculpture will advise a new owner of a pristine piece (no cracks) to always keep a small container of water in close proximity to the piece in order to maintain humidity and avoid 'cracks'.
One of my other interests is the art deco Bronze and Ivory figures produced in the 1920/30s, in a book by a prominent expert on these things the author Brian Cately states that 'when looking for the very best pieces to buy collectors should prefer items exhibiting no cracks to the ivory, also care should be taken in the future placement of any items with regard to the humidity and the preservation of the future value of the item, centrally heated environments are a no no'

So why are cracks in grips desirable? Some leading dealers comments may help because from what I've seen and what I remember if they're selling you one with a crack it's most desirable because it's age is undisputed, if no cracks then its the best preserved example they've ever seen, all salesmans bullsh-t.

I would opt for crack free ivory every time, you just dont always get the choice.

Nolan

Like Maxwell, I did not think it necessary to employ a hot pin to verify if this grip was really ivory or not . . .

and like Nolan, I like ivory best when it is crack free. ~ Ian

Nolan is right on the button.
Sales BS.
My wife has netsuke pieces in a case with the
small shot glass of water.Advice from a noted London Dealer.
I prefer my grips crack free.(Navy/Luft/Heer.
Cheers
Seiler (Yank in UK)

I think the mentality about the cracks is that it proves that it is genuine ivory to people who cannot identify real ivory in a pristine state.

Same sort of thinking as the folks who prefer grungy SS daggers with that green crud around the vertical hanger. It lets the think that the piece is untouched.

Dave

McDoogal,

That's some tiptop photography, beautiful!

Seiler,

That's pretty good advice that gent gave you.
I think optimum is about 50% humidity. Over time ivory will get dry, brittle and crack if there's not enough moisture in the air. Protect your investments gentlemen, a small amount of water stored in the cabinet with your ivory-gripped examples is like buying insurance against cracking. An inexpensive and time-tested method of preservation. Think of it as your no.1 humidor!

Great to see some top specimens and thanks to all for a look at these wonderful and rare grips.

Bill

Thanks Willi!

I personally have yet to see an ivory grip without the semi circular serration pattern even when in mint condition.

Would it be fair to say that cut ivory always has this feature?

Some years ago we had a member called Bruce Petrin, long time members will remember him and maybe a brilliant topic he did on ivory grips. From memory, there are differing grades of ivory working from the outside of the tusk to the inner core, the outer layers being more susceptible to cracking while the core ivory is the jewel in the crown of ivory having multi colors due to the presence of blood vessels, this type seldom seen with cracks if looked after properly.

Nolan

Ps, as I do not have permission to post on the other 2nd Luft topic by Matarese I will say here that I would never own a Luft with those scabbard bands, that is not to say that the whole dag is bad but looking at the gaps around where the bands lie on the scabbard body suggests they may be replacements. This type of band is exactly the same pattern as seen on the chinese repro's.

Nolan

Here is a MINT grip on a presentation 3rd Reich Naval dagger. The same serrations can be seen.

Maxwell,

Another great photo, keep up the good work!

W~

Some years ago, I saw an antique show on television. One of the "experts" said if you have an ivory object with cracks in it, you can wrap it in a damp cloth and the cracks will close, or nearly do so, due to the added moisture. She said to go slowly and keep the ivory within the damp cloth as long as is needed to close the cracks. Of course, you would have to be sure the cloth is kept damp. I have never tried this method, so cannot recommend it or not recommend it, but does make sense. I would guess if you allowed too much moisture to enter the ivory, you could produce even more cracks. A delicate procedure, no doubt, but worthy of consideration.

Hello, Just the kind of topic i was looking for! This Luft Grip has me stumped, i never seen a ivory grip in person so my knowledge is zero!. It's not plaster fill or solid cell and is heavy compared to any i have held before. Any ideas.

Thanks
Eric

ASSO gr 2

Pommel nut has never been unscrewed all the way so this is the best i can do for the inner area.

full view

last one

Eric,
It's definately not ivory. I had a grip like that on one awhile back. Real dense and heavy. Galiath, maybe?

Agree Willy looks like Galalith see the thread I just BTTed for info on this material known on Heer daggers but not seen before on a Luftwaffe so nice one we are always learning thats what makes GDC special

Galalith is easily detected. Rubbing briskly with a soft cloth will produce a rather sour smell--- quite different than the chemical smell you get from trolon doing the same thing.

On my Army Ivory grip I keep the pommel backed off a little .This way there is no pressure on the grip.I almost sent my dagger back ,Didn't know it was ivory and it was NOT round .It was more oval shaped.Good thing for books as I found out different.

Very useful bit of info on galalith from Houston as usual

Here's an ivory grip on a "Voos" etched dagger. Personally, I like the "character lines" you see here. You can't catch them with a fingernail, although they could be considered "cracks." There are fewer on the reverse of the grip, but they are faint.

Here is an ivory grip on a "transitional" navy dagger example with damascus blade. The grip appears to have been "custom-wrapped" with wire, probably at the time the dagger was updated. The reverse has a few faint "character lines," as seen on the army example, above.

Cracks?, all down to personal taste in the end, would anyone pass on a beautiful third reich ivory gripped dagger because of a few minor age cracks, of course not, I certainly wouldn't, all I was saying earlier is that uncracked ivory is 'preferable' this doesn't condemn ivory with a few age cracks to the dustbin. Some good tips here for preserving grips, specially the one about backing off the pommel, also applies to any grip, wood and trolon will benefit from this. Moisture can close up a crack as suggested but it will always be evident. Good topic this.

Nolan

Houston Thanks,

I did the hot needle test and it smells like rotten garbage, if that's what you mean by a sour smell i now know what i have. Just a shot of the makers mark... condition Unissued. "Darn dust just attracts to the blade when out of the case".

Thanks Again

Eric

Is this an ivory grip??? I removed it off one of my army daggers years ago because it made the dagger look bad. Tell me what you think. Mark

I am fairly certain this is not ivory. here is my ivory ASSO grip,,

Ritterkreuz, what you have there is a Galaith grip.

Nolan

here is a tough one hard for me to discern if it is or isn't i do not own it and it has been offered cheap as a regular luft with cracked grip
whats everyone think?

What, exactly do you mean? are you referring to my ivory grip I posted?

here are some more pics

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3

4

5

here is my a.schuttlehoffer with ivory handle for your review,,,if you think there is something wrong with it,,please tell me, I would appriciate it,,I realize I dont have alot of posts under my belt, but I'm just trying to participate in this forum,in a constructive way,and not get slammed when I try,Thanks

I can't speak for Roy, but I think his post is about a dagger for sale with a questionable grip, as to whether it's ivory or not. I expected to see a photo with the post and maybe he intended to post one. As far as your grip and the dagger itself, I can see no problems at all. I don't think there's any doubt the grip is genuine ivory, based upon photos only.