UBB.threads Forums General Militaria Names, Documents, Photos and Translation Forum First Blood Order Recipients

Hi All:

As part of my SS number research, I finally came across a log for most of the first 1500 recipients of the "Blood Order" (Ehrenzeichen vom 8./9. November 1923). I know a few of you have this and they were published an out-of-print book that is very pricey. This list has some gaps which I can fill with some subsequent documents. For the benefit of those who don't have this information, I will post these for you over the next few weeks. Here are the first 252.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Here is the summary of the content.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 1-18

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 19-36

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 37-54

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 55-72

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 73-90

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 91-108

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 127-144

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 145-162

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 163-180

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 181-198

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 199-216

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Numbers 217-234

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

And here are numbers 235-252. More to follow next week.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Great valuable info to post on Nov.9th Ross.
Thanks for sharing it.

Oops...forgot numbers 109-126. That's a lot of uploads to keep straight.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Ross, once again all I can say is thank you!

I am especially interested in holders 11, 41, 127,238 and 251..

All these holders are marked 'Entzogen' or withdrawn..what are the stories behind these men losing such a coveted award as the Blood Order?

Also of note are the holders who are victims of the Rohm purge (+ 30.6.34) and in the case of number 11, another has taken his number..

I also just noticed that we are all posting on Nov.9th, a most sacred day on the National Sozialist's calender..

Excellent observations Doug. I also have to confess that I didn't realize today's date when I made the post. It just so happened that I had some time today to prepare these for posting.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Does anyone have any ideas on why there are two award dates for most of the recipients ie. 1934 and 1940?

That's a good question Erich..were they being re-affirmed?

Some thoughts..considering there are entries on holder's deaths (in combat, purge and through natural occurrences and accidents etc..) perhaps they were updating the list and the notations were made to show that the recipients were still in possession of the award, or were still eligible.

It also looks like this list was updated in the tumultuous 6 months following the July 20th bomb plot, in which everyone, even a Blood Order holder, could be suspect in regards to their loyalty.Remember in this period, there was the second big purge of party members and others who were deemed disloyal to the regime.

If we could find another updated list (if one exists..) we would probably see more holders deceased as the war came to a violent conclusion in the last one year +

It is possible that the dates we see under some are when they were updated (in a previous list..) with the latter update being 19.1.44

It would also be interesting to see if all the holder listed as being 'purged' during operation Hummingbird, are listed in the official tally of men killed.

My guess would be re-affirmed too. To go along with this theory the paperwork on my BO holder # 626 Franz Fuchs shows a 1937 form where he states that he is eligible for the BO. The forms must have been sent to all the 1st pattern BO holders.

Poor Wilhelm Schmid(t) BO holder no. #17 had only held the order 4 days before he was shot.It was probably one of the last 'official' items taken care of by the SA on behalf of the NSDAP (in regards to paperwork etc..) before the SA took their annual summer break..

I can't wait to see the next group..!

I looked up Emil Petzendorfer whose BO was revoked on 6.2.39.

He was arrested on 2.6.39 for serious bribery of an official, betrayal of secrets to Jews, and preferential treatment, etc.

Apparently, the charges for the arrest proved true and four months later he was stripped of his BO, and probably his rank etc.

If you had your BO revoked, would it still exist, or did they destroy it..

If they gave your number to another, would they also give him your order?

If the BO was revoked it had to be returned as per regulations to the office of the 9th of Nov. The frugal Germans would not destroy it but I'm sure re-issue it.

Another interesting thing is that Sister Pia is reported to have BO # 25 but it's left blank on the page.

Interesting Erich..could be that because it was such a spur of the moment thing by Hitler, in deciding to award this woman, that her award did not go through the 9th Nov. committee.

With the recipient's numbers and some dates being on a list is there any way to tell at about what point or number the Blood Order goes from a 1st pattern to a 2nd pattern?

Also I thought I read the 1st patterns were for involvment in the Putsch and the 2nd pattern was issued for other political reasons.
Is there any truth to that theory?

Any opinions are appreciated.
Thanks again Ross for all these great listings.

Dean, the 2nd patterns started at about # 1600 to about 4100. The 1st 1500 were for participation in the Putsch. The 2nd pattern was issued to Germans and Austrians who were imprisoned, wounded or lost their lives in the service of the NSDAP. There were some 2nd pattern BO's awarded to Putsch vets as well due to them applying for the award after1938. I hope this answers some of your questions.

Thanks Erich,

All the great recent postings regarding Blood Order's, the memorials for Nov-9-1923, and the # list Ross provided got me wondering about where did the 16 who died for the NSDAP fit in with this award?

I thought the 16 martyrs listed on the honor plaque would have been some of the first to have been awarded the Blood Order (posthumously).

Looking through Ross's listings I dont see any recipients that are listed as deceased in 1923.

Am I missing something here? Anyone know something about award dates or numbers on this?

Thanks

It seems as though the deceased were not awarded an actual BO but rather a minature version of the award. Not much else is known at this time.

If the deceased were awarded the actual BO it would have been the 2nd paterrn after 1938 when the regulations were expanded to include being badly wounded or death in service to the Party.

I have Blutorden # 251 and the small red oil cloth document to go with it. Its to 'Reiber'. As its a first pattern medal with a second pattern document this would maybe point to the fact number 251 was re issued to Reiber. On the document above posted it shows a name crossed out and Reiber written alongside.Importantly then I think we can safely confirm with this medal and document that Blutorden had to be returned and re-issued in such cases.In this case Reiber must have been due a first pattern award and duly recieved it,with a second pattern holders document.Don't think my document says its a second issue but will check that next week when I visit the bank.
I have yet to research Reiber so any info would be gratefully recieved.

Unless a mistake was made entering his name on the document above,simply crossed out and written in.This would mean his medal was not collected in following whatever led to him having it revoked.Interesting stuff.Once I get to his document it will shed some more light.

That's interesting Jon, if you have a copy of Niemann's book on decorations he shows a 2nd pattern in the 2900 range issued to a Putsch vet in about 1940 with a letter from the office of the 9th of Nov. to the recipient stating that they were replacing the red document with the brown one.

Erich,yes I remember that one,wonder who's collection that resides in? Reibers came direct from the family via a collector friend.Perhaps he also had a brown holders ID? Getting some pics Wednesday hopefully

Here we can see it is a second issue ID. Does anyone have any futher info on the holder or why he had his BO 'Taken away'. It seems that the NSDAP did not ever take back his ID or Blutorden?

Jon, I think this is one of the many mysteries we probably never know the answer to. It's very interesting that the 2nd pattern award document is matched to this 1st pattern BO. Ah, another mystery!

At the top it notes 'Zweitschrift' which means 2nd copy or duplicate--on other documents it signifies that the original was lost or destroyed, and I suspect that's what happened here.
Erich

Hi All:

Here is a Blood Order document I came across in the National Archives.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Here is the reverse. I see that it is noted in this roster that Jegg died in 1935.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Ross, thanks for that.Would be great if you posted any others you might come across on your travels.Thats the brown first pattern holders small document ,Replaced with the red document for the second pattern as I have shown above.
Nice.You rarely see these survived !

Very nice and talk about a real Alte Garde born in 1852!

I was looking at this thread again and I can answer Dean's question. Many of the Putsch vets did not apply for the BO until after the 1st striking ended in 1935. These recipients were issued a 2nd pattern in early 1939 and there is documentation to back this up. One example is in Niemann's book on Awards where he shows a letter from the Office of the 9th of Nov. changing a members award document from red to brown due to his participation in the Putsch. His BO was numbered in the 2900 range. I hope this makes sense. Erich

I just noticed that I have repeated what I already wrote earlier in the thead. This shows that Beer and thread reading can be a problem. Sorry for the double post.

At his advanced age, what would Alois Jegg have done to earn the Blood Order?

You basically just had to attend the Putsch and be a member of the NSDAP or affiliated organizations to qualify for the 1st pattern BO.
To Qualify for the 2nd pattern, you had to have been jailed for at least one year, loss of job or have been severally wounded in defense of the Party.

I have a question and since I am not familiar with Blood order medals this will sound stupid. What is the reason for some of the empty spaces on the list and who was #1 on the list that is empty also? All I can do is ask. Thanks Larry

The # 1 spot was obviously reserved for the main man. It has been said that A.H. had a B.O. with the numeral 1 but that's not absolutely confirmed. It has also been theorized that he had a blank or un-numbered B.O. but again, that's not confirmed. It is within reason to assume that he had more than one B.O. and conceivably this may be a reason for some of the un-numbered pieces might come into play.

As to the blank spaces on the official listing, it has again been theorized that these numbers were originally assigned to persons who later had their B.O. revoked. However and contary to this idea, at one time I owned B.O. #200, August Bruschwiler (shown in Angolia) and pulled his records from the Berlin Document Center and did further research on the person. He was an antique dealer and had charges brought against him for misdealings with a political leader's mother. Legal proceedings ensued to include a personal letter from the accused to A.H. asking him to please intercede on his behalf because they were fellow 'Alte Kampfers' The records reflected no response from A.H. and as the legal proceedings went forth with the charged offender ultimately loosing his party affiliation and was subsequently ordered by the court to return his Gold Party Badge and his Blood Order. Contrary to the above hypothesis his name and number 200 remained in place on the B.O. list and also reflect his demise in 1943.

Interesting stuff but Larry, I'm sorry that I am unable to provide a more concrete answer to your inquiries.

Regards,

John

One theory was that Ernst Roehm was BO # 1 but he never received his BO due to The night of the long knives. Hitler then took BO # 1. Wolfe Hardin owns BO # 1 along with Hitler's Brown shirt and one of his GPB's. BO # 1 is engraved rather than stamped from what I understand. I think John is correct regarding that some had more than one copy of the BO and that the spare was not numbered. Fobke had a numbered cased example and an unnumbered one attached to his uniform for example when discovered. I think there is a lot of mystery with the BO and a lot of answers we may never know.

Hey John thanks for your reply. You went well over and beyond as far as providing an answer for me in something I have no knowledge of. You explained alot for a better understanding. Thanks again! Best Larry

Both the orders I have seen up to the number 10 have been hand engraved rather then what we expect as standard. Sort of like a personal touch for the top guys,OR maybe a case of the recipient having their 2nd spare medal engraved unnoficially ? Interesting theory.

One interesting omission on the list is BO# 25 that was awarded to the only female holder of the 1st pattern BO, Sister Pia. Was she awarded her BO by Hitler by passing the 9th of November Commission? Interesting!

That would be a fantastic order to own Erich,I wonder if it survived !?

Who knows Jon, one more mystery of the Blood Order.

Erich I am trying to study them but I'll soon be living in a cardboard box :]

Heres a nice complete grouping you do not see very often!

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

Are there a finite number of Blood Orders (that are known) or are there examples that have never been seen to this day?

Fantastic cased 2nd pattern BO and documents, King Dong and thanks for sharing them.
Doug, I don't think anyone really knows how many BO's survived the war. A total of about 4100 were awarded and I'm sure that there are more than a few in old collections that have never see the light of day. Best, Erich

Thanks for sharing King Dong. What do you all think of No. 254 that Charlie Synder has for sale. Here is the link:

http://www.snyderstreasures.com/pages/hitler.htm

Scroll down to it a bit from the top. I saw it priced at about 10K at one show.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Ross,Not a fan of that case from those pictures.The photos of the medal have been taken with flash,from what I can see it could/prob is be real,but given his reputation it would be a risk buying without having it in hand.Would certainly need better pictures to part with my money.Also to not is a fair bit of side damage to the medal.
Lovely set above by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Fish:
Ross,Not a fan of that case from those pictures.The photos of the medal have been taken with flash,from what I can see it could/prob is be real,but given his reputation it would be a risk buying without having it in hand.Would certainly need better pictures to part with my money.Also to not is a fair bit of side damage to the medal.
Lovely set above by the way.

I agree with Jon that's probably real but if it's not the flash someone used silver cleaner on it. You would need an in hand inspection to be sure.

#33's document and medal are still owned by bis son (who was a wartime officer in Regiment "Der Führer"). Only set I've seen complete in person for someone in the "early street fighting."

Mark,

I'll bet you get a few requests for the guy's address from collectors and dealers.

Dave

I just took another look at the Snyder piece,he has uploaded some more pictures.Yes it is an original medal but I don't like the case.The medal is listed as 'near mint' but is certainly not by any stretch of imagination. In fact It looks like it might have been in the ground and cleaned at some point, lots of details worn away from the soft silver surface and pretty big dings on the edge certainly makes it drastically overpriced IMO.Double what I would value it at.

Nice BO!
I will try to post a pix of my SA dagger engraved to BO#88,Hans Kruger.
It would be cool to find the actual BO #88
to pair with it!
Joe

Gentlemen, this has been an exceptionally great and early historical thread, without all the middle school pandering as on some other threads, this thread was exceptional to say the least.
Like enjoying a fine glass of wine, which I did,, while reading on,,I have to say well done to all for their input on The Blood Order Medals. Not one shred of negativity was found to be said. The photos posted and everyone`s research input, made it all the more enjoyable. These Alter Kampfer men were the beginning of what was to follow, and until present day,(now) and the study of this time period. Well done!

Jon, here's one for you!!
this is why the book is taking so long!

Just found a couple months ago.. A Blood Order ring! Well, not really.,,,but,,here it is:

And, it opens up and has a small book with all those who got killed listed during the putsch.
Better photos and better details coming soon!

That's a very cool ring G! Do you have any additional info on it? Best, Erich

Gaspare,nice find my friend. Whats on the front,its hard to make out. Private purchase ring then,looks like a lot of work involved making the small metal insert book I suspect more than one made following all that work?

Knew you guys would like that!

Well, It's supposed to be a gem of some sort on front.

I have some conflicting info so far,,one bit is that it was for the participants/survivors of the putsch, and the other [conflicting] is that only one was made for A. H.!
When I get some confirmed ,positive info I'll post what I can..

Ross,I have bo#88,Hans Kruger"s personalized
SA dagger.Is it possible a picture might exist
of this SA man?
Joe

Ross,is it possible to find a picture of#88.,
Hans Kruger?I have his personalized SA dagger?
Joe

Thanks G, it looks like a one of a kind ring. Thanks for sharing it with us Blood Order fans!

I've never seen or heard of a ring like that before--I would also guess that it was a one of a kind piece made for AH. It should have come with a large magnifying glass, since there's no way he'd be able to read the names in the little book!
Erich

quote:

Originally posted by joepo:
Ross,is it possible to find a picture of#88.,
Hans Kruger?I have his personalized SA dagger?
Joe

'

Hi Joe:

Best chance is if a photo is attached to one of his NSDAP membership file cards. I will need his NSDAP party number and/or birthdate to check him out. This is likely to be a very common name.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistricGraphics.com