Just 2 days ago I got this great Teno insignia set in the mail : Teno collar tabs for Teno Officer-Scharfuehrer rank ,silver thread Teno Sleeve Eagle and Teno Old Fighter Chevron .

Here the 2 collar tabs .

...and their backsides . Note the various different hooks through the thick woven
sack like backing material .

Close-up of the right-hand collar tab.

...and the backside with the various hooks to hold the front numbers and the cross bar .

Here now the right-hand collar tab with the wheel and leaves.

...and it's backside , again 2 different hooks .

Here a close-up of the special piping and the ends tied up at the corner .

By-the-way ,the collar tabs measured 1 3/4 -inches wide by 2 3/8 - inched high . Here now the silver thread Teno Sleeve Eagle stitched to a thick black wool backing . The eagle piece measures 3 1/4 - inches across the top and is 2- inches high . The thread does not UV-light reflect !

Close-up of the eagle center .

Close-up of the wing end and it's thick black wool backing .

Here now the "Old Fighter Chevron " stitched to a thick black wool backing . Each chevron arm is 3-inches long .

Close-up of the V-center joint .

Close-up of the backside shows the stitching to the thick black wool backing ; it does not UV -light reflect ! I hope you liked these rather rare items ! Bernd .

GREAT FIND and very scarce. I am always on the lookout for teno items but those collars never seem to show up . great find

PAUL

Congratulations, You REALLY did great (!)

TeNo Items are HARD to find....

Here is an 'Insignia Board' from a Clothier, that I was luck to pick up.

Dave
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#2

Dave
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#3

Dave
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TN - LEFT Facing and RIGHT Facing Metal Insignia.

I found it quite fascinating that the TN Metal Insignia was made in both Lt. and Rt. Versions!!

Have no Idea of the significance of the different 'directions' of the TN means?

Has anyone seen the same thing?

Txs, Dave
dblmed

Here some more of my Teno insignia items : gilted visor cap wreath ,Bevo sleeve patch , silver bullion visor cap wreath , visor cop cord and Bevo woven cuff title band .

Silver bullion woven Teno visor cap wreath .

Close-up section .

Gilted metal Teno visor cap wreath .

Backside shows " GES.GESCH."

BEVO woven sleeve insignia .

I feel the backside looks as great as the frontside !

Close-up of Bevo woven cuff band section .

Close-up of 2nd section of the lettering.

Here the typical backside weave : here the 1st set of lettering .

Close-up of the end button loop section of the Teno visor cap cord .

A set of Teno collar tabs , type after 1943 , what I think is for fire protection or emergency service .

Close-up of right hand collar tab .

Right hand collar tab seems to be for Officer-Scharfuehrer rank . The backing is a black-blue wool, which would be in-line with fire deparment colors .

Close-up of the stitched over ends of the silver dbl.cords.

Here now the backsides of both collar tabs . Center backing is a heavy thick waxed brown paper board material . Hope you liked all this Teno "stuff" ! Bernd .

Very Interesting & Unusual - Thanks, have never seen that Post 43 Right Tab!

(Hard to get good Reference Information - as there is NO dedicated 'Book' on TeNo ... to my knowledge).

Here's an earlier set of Tabs & Boards.

Dave
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Bernd,

Here is a green Teno eagle for the green drillich uniform.

Dave : I like all the Teno stuff you have shown , particular the mtl.insignia board .It looks like your collar tabs are very close to mine on the front ;--but what is the backing material in the center ?? Card board ?? Love your shoulder boards ; I need to get a pair now to complete my set ! George : Like that sleeve eagle ! What other items are on the tunic ?

I have several pieces but does anyone know of a current source of collars or shoulders would love to get an example into the mix

PAUL

Bernd,

The herringbone twill tunic has full insignia. As you can see, the machine sewn sleeve eagle is embroidered on HBT material. Here is a view of the TENO cufftitle. It is just like the one that you show.

Here is a view of the machine sewn collar tabs. Both tabs are mirror images. I believe these are NCO but I do not know the specific rank.

What a great thread on some very rare items!
Thank you all for taking the time to post all
of these different insignia, good photography
too!

Best,
Marcus

Great thread on TeNo - an overlooked TR Group in collecting (BUT ...... that is Good, for those of us who collect TeNo (!)

ORPO What a Super uniform - Thanks for Sharing !!!

Paulbear - one can never seem to FIND the TeNo Tabs and Boards! You have to search, be lucky, and buy quickly (IMHO.)

Bernd - yes, my collar tabs are a solid, cardboard type material like yours.

TeNo Photos, in wear, are very, very scarce ....

Here's a Postcard I have of a TeNo Mann, stationed in France, to be sent back home to friends. Note the added 'Horseshoe' by the Photo Studio.

Check out the:
a. Collar Tabs
b. Shoulder Boards
c. Cap TeNo Eagle
d. TeNo Buttons
e. Belt Buckle

I bought this Photocard 'hoping against hope' to find Proof of the 'in use' ware of the RARE Solid EM TeNo buckle!!! (But, under magnification - it turns out to be an Army "Gott Mit Uns" variety....

Enjoy & Share more TeNo Items.....

Dave
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Even finding Information on TeNo is a difficult proposition.

Here is a TeNo Rank Chart & Nice Showing of TeNo Items (? don't know what year) for Reference, courtesy of Axishistory.com.

IMO the most difficult TeNo cloth to find is the Arm / Sleeve Circle Rautes, by far!!! ....I have only seen actual examples of 2 of them. At times, you'll find them 'mis-labeled' as DAF. If so, GRAB them ...and you will have made a rare 'catch' for your collection.

The TeNo Officer Belt Buckle is, for me & many others, the "Holy Grail" of TR Buckles!!!!! If you have one, Congratulations - and please share it with us!!! (I have had the Duck, Bill Shea, looking specifically for one for me for 3 years - he has only seen, and sold ONE (1) in his entire career = yes RARE.....

Enjoy TeNo & post more.....

Dave
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Officer Buckle - for TeNo... the "Holy Grail" of TR Buckles.

(Unfortunately, not mine. Taken from a web reference source, with permission...)

Dave
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Dave,

A very nice photograph of an active service Teno guy.

Here is a view of the green HBT tunic with insigna. This is the "Police" style drillich outfit with no breast pockets and open hip pockets. Normally, the police outfits of this style were made of unbleached HBT. It is also common for police (Teno being a police auxiliary) work outfits of this type to wear collar rank.

Here is the other commonly worn Teno drillich outfit. These will be found in either green or blue and have distinctive breast pockets and TN markings. They are generally found without rank and perhaps only a Teno cuff title.

Great Drilling Unif. ORPO, they are Rarer than 'Regular' TeNo Uniforms (IMHO). That's because they were more easily 'de-Nazified' for post war use, during the pressing clothing shortage! Great catch...

Here's, what I believe to be an 'early' TeNo Family Photo, including the young boy. (It's marked 1933 on the back of one of the Photos.)

What's of interest, to me, is:
a. Right & Left Collar are JUST Pressed On Metal - no Tab, as we know it.
b. Extra Metal, of some sort on the collar.
c. TeNo Patch (NOT the customary Arm Band) on the Left Arm.

You guys may see other things in the photo that I don't.

It is apparent to me - that TeNo Collar Insignia 'evolved' with the passage of time.

Dave
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Here is a TeNo EM Shoulder Board.

Yet another style of TeNo. Love the special corded border of these.

Dave
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Oops, here is the front side of the Shoulder Board.

Dave

Comment on the 3 TeNo Photos - Father, Son & Grandson.

Note that there is only ONE (1) Shoulder Tab on the Right Shoulder (!)

It follows in line with the SS use on One (1) tab during that frame of time. Photos tell us a great deal - because they capture "then and there" for us.

Dave
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Great TeNo items everyone. I can't get that denim jacket out of my mind,simple and utilitarian but very striking. Hard to find TeNo items but info is even harder. one day someone will hopefully write a book on this organization. Here's a few shots of the few things I have.

2

The previous strap has a stiffener this one doesn't.

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

Ink stamp inside hat.

1st of 2 photos.

Unfortunately the only buckle clear enough to make out is a double claw type.

back of the truck

Nice logo on the trucks door. To bad the photographer wasn't standing a little further back or left.

2nd photo...no belt in sight,damn

Ment to do this one first.

Super Raymond, You have an outstanding well rounded out TeNo Collection!! Even the TeNo Honor Medal / Badge of the 1920's.

I haven't seen the 'Officer' Patch, just next to the regular Bevo TeNo. (More treasures to find.)

Your EM Hewer with 2 Hangers is a super catch, as well.

BERND .... I found a TeNo 1945 Rank Listing, from "Die Deutsche Polizei" magazine, dated as 1945. The Left Collar matches up well with the 2nd Tab set that you showed us.

Dave
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Collar Tabs & Shoulder Boards ...... Isn't it interesting how Different they are - now that historically TeNo is under SS/Police control & jurisdiction.

The Black "TeNo Police" patch is a very hard one to find, as noted on the 1945 Chart, upper left..

Dave

Also, listed on this same 1945 TeNo Chart, is the near impossible "TeNo Diamond" which was worn on the lower left sleeve.

It is next to the "TeNo Police" patch on the chart.

Dave

The White TeNo Armband is quite impressive, but I find that the Green Armband has more of a 'Color Punch' to it. I believe it to be of earlier / intermediate TeNo usage.

Dave

Back Side - Green TeNo Armband... Dave

I got lucky early on, and found a TeNo Album from 1934, with handwritten inscriptions on many of the Photos. It just stirred my interest in the Technische Nothilfe.

Here are 2 civic function Photos, from mid 1934. (Per the hand written caption, Himmler is in there with the Official Crowd.)

The TeNo Flags are spectacular to see in the size proportion. Also the TeNo Finial is up there atop the flags.

Uniform - one (1) Shoulder Tab, Right Side.

PHOTO 1 .... Dave

# 2 .... Action at the Podium, with TeNo Honor Guards, and bystanders.

Dave
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Thanks Dave,you have some amazing items yourself. I never knew the black police eagle was for TeNo.The green armband is a new one to me also.Thanks for showing them. I always wondered,since the TeNo came under the SS later on in the war, and as you show in the chart, were the collar tabs exactly the same as SS,or were they different measurements?How were they marked,as in RZM tags? I have an NSKK tab that has a SS RZM tag. I wonder if they used whatever was handy or maybe the same as SA or Political leaders items?

Raymond ..... forgot to comment that your TeNo EM Side Cap is a 100% WOW!!! with the super internal TeNo Stamping. Great!!

ORPO - hopefully can help us with the 'Rarity' of the black police eagle for TeNo. (My understanding is that it is a Rare & Desired Patch for TR Police Collectors.)

TeNo & SS: My 'understanding' is that TeNo came under the wing of the SS in 42/43. I don't know 'IF' the 1945 Tabs / Shoulder Boards were used before the '45 Chart shows them. My understanding is that Tabs were the SS Black & some in the TeNo Dark Blue, as BERND shows his Tab. (So little available information - hopefully some later year Photos will surface?)

Tab Markings - None of my TeNo Tabs are Marked (RZM or otherwise.)

RZM Phase Out - Seems that I have read that the RZM 'Phased Out' about 1943.

YES - NSKK tabs will often have a SS RZM paper tag. Bob Coleman did a very nice Q & A, within the last 2-3 months) (on the WAF Forum, under SS) showing exactly that aspect, with an example. What you have is correct.

I have a number of period TR Tailor Books, which specify the exact dimensions of Uniforms, etc. This page is from a 1940 Issue and deals with the TeNo. Again, we see ranks and Tabs, Collars and Patches ...... so we know that this is the 1940 time frame. (We are narrowing down, 'when' certain Tab / Collar combinations for TeNo were in use.

Dave dblmed



 

I'll try to post the Tailor Book a little Larger.

Perhaps some of you fluent in German, can even read parts of it!!! That would be neat.

Dave dblmed

Another TeNo Collar Tab Set .......

I bought this set, because it was definitely TeNo, but the numerical '25' on the Right Tab, instead of 'Roman Numeral' designation has always concerned me?

But, in looking at the prior 1934 Photo = WHAM, there are the Numbers, instead of Roman Numerals!!! So, maybe this is just a part of the mystery of the TeNo. (I also feel the Left Tab should have a classical TeNo Cogwheel above the 5 Pointed Leaf.

Front .... Dave dblmed

Reverse of # 25 Tabs.

Dave dblmed

TeNo Honor Cuff Dated Title - recognizing long service.

From reading (Angolia) the TeNo Honor Cuff Dated Title was authorized in 1935, to recognize long service in the TeNo (which had origins in 1919). I've seen references that there were Dated Cuff Titles for 1920, 21, 22 & 23.

Here is an example of one.... Dave dblmed

Paulbear & Others: Source of TeNo Insignia! I see one Item for adding to your collection.

I see that BOB HRITZ .... http://www.bobhritz.com/ (Under Cloth) has as Item 11 an example of the TeNo Overseas Cap Eagle – Blue. (Bob also says the blue TeNo Eagle is for '...Overseas Cap & LATE War Armband..." So, I just learned that the GREEN Armband was 'late war.' When Bob speaks .... people listen (or, should listen - - - just look at the Credits in the Angolia SS Cloth Bible!) Dave dblmed

More great and invalueable information Dave, it's much apreciated. I'll have a look over on WAF for that thread.

Dave,

Actually, the Teno was considered to be a voluntary police auxiliary and fell under the control of the Ministry of the Interior. They have their pre-NS origins in 1919 as you mentioned and some wore uniforms and some simply wore armbands and civilian clothing. Over the years the Teno became more important to the police and the NS Party and uniforms and insignia became more formal. Finally, they were uniformed like policemen with black insignia and piping. TN Polizei items are very scarce and sought after by police collectors.

Here is an example of the black piped TN Pol side cap. The cloth is police green and the eagle is standard but the black piping denotes this is a Teno Polizeimann.

George

I want to thank you all for the GREAT items you have posted --and the fantastic information we all have gained from it ! Wow , I did not know that there were so many collectors of Teno out there ! It is also great to find an item that fits the printed Guide lines . I am still very interested in what the roman and regular numbers on the collar tabs stood for . I guess that the Roman numbers stood for a district the Teno had Germany divided into and the lower regular number stood for a specific unit in that district or their "Standort " , meaning town location . Can any of you that showed the printed guides please look this up ??? Thanks , Bernd .

ORPO... Thanks for the info. update, can't learn too much about TeNo. Your "TeNo Police" Sidecap must be one, of very few, in collections. Congratulations on it!

BERND ... The Collar Symbol meanings still confuse me - I will need to look it up (again, & try to remember it this time.)

I found the 'Cloth Specifications' for a TeNo Mantel, in the 1940 Schneiderie Book & thought that it might be of interest.

Dave dblmed

ORPO ... I have this light Green TeNo patch in my collection, and I believe it may be similar to the one you showed on your Drilling Uniform?
(It was sold to me as a TeNo 'Coverall's' Patch) ..... FRONT .....
Dave dblmed

Reverse of Green TeNo Patch ... Dave dblmed

BERND ... Here is a Cloth TeNo Sleeve Eagle ...although not quite as nice as your superb example. Dave dblmed FRONT

Reverse - Blue TeNo Sleeve Eagle Patch
Dave dblmed

For ALL TeNo Collectors - the obligatory White TeNo Arm Band. It is quite spectacular in its own rignt, I feel. FRONT Dave dblmed

Close up of the TN ... Dave dblmed

Reverse ... Dave dblmed

ORPO ... here is a Uniform Study from 1934, of a 'Class' of TeNo guys - some with a Drilling Uniform of that time. (I don't know how the Drilling changed over the years with TeNo?) The handwritten numbers correspond with individual Names, on the back of the Photo. Dave dblmed

Here is an enlargement of a section of the TeNo Class Photo (but unfortunately with the subsequent loss of photo detail) Dave dblmed

TeNo & SS - It is my understanding that the TeNo worked with the SS, from 1939-42/43 & then were 'incorporated' into a part of the SS in 42/43. TeNo followed behind the 'troops' taking over where the Engineers and 'Pioneers' left off - restoring vital services: Water - Power - Rail - Ports & Waterways.

Here's a Feldpost from 1941 ... which (I feel) shows a nice link with the SS. Dave dblmed

ORPO - Do you have any TeNo Officer / NCO Visors, in your wonderful uniform collection, that you can show us?

Raymond / Bernd - pull out some more of your TeNo treasures to share.

Ernst - I replied to your Email regarding Tailor items / source.

Last Post Tonite - This isn't 'technically TeNo Cloth, but there are cloth fibers in the Paper. A TeNo ID Book, with TeNo Stamps.

Interestingly also, TR Stamp collectors really go after TeNo Stamp items & Feldposts - yes, because they are so rare...

Dave dblmed

Wow, super collections! Keep the pictures coming!!

Dave dblmed, did you find the "1945 Rank Listing" on the forum? It actually appears to be a copy of a page from the below pictured publication. There is considerable other text detail provided.

And this is my only other TeNo item:

This is a Teno EM cap that I picked up in Germany. It is an early one with the nickel wreath. Unfortunately, the eagle was missing, so I've replaced it with a nice aluminum one for now. Anyone out there have a nickel teno eagle that they would be willing to sell or trade?
Doug

Pic2...

Pic3...

Pic4...

Doug,

A very nice early Teno peaked cap! I love the sweat shield information.

Bernd,

Your insignia thread has taken off. Good idea to post your latest Teno goodies.

Dave,

I want that book! I have the 1942 Taschenbuch für TN but I need the one with the late uniform plates.

The other Dave,

Dang that is confusing... Yes, your green HBT eagle is the same as is on my drillichjacke. The TN guys you show are wearing the unbleached TN style jacke with both single and double button breast pockets. Here is a mint police example (with tags) of the style with hip pockets that is Police marked and dated 1943.

George

DAVE CAMERON - Yes, I took the '45 TeNo Rank list from the 1945 'Die Deutsche Polizei.' Sharp Eye!! A TeNo collecting buddy has it - and I am looking to find a copy as well (Any Extras!!!)

I haven't seen the 1942 'Die Deutsche Polizei' - but if it shows TeNo Ranks, it would be great if you could Post it!

DOUG - A really nice EM TeNo Visor, and all of the EREL Markings, just put it 'over the top.' EREL was, according to learned sources, the "...only supplier of TeNo Visors..." From what I have seen, I do believe that this is accurate, but ONLY for a specific time frame. (Reason - I've seen too many 'original' Unmarked TeNo Visors. Unless, EREL left some unmarked? Which would be the 'exception' to EREL production - too proud of the well earned respect for the EREL name.

Nickle Silver TeNo Eagle - YES, I do have one - a beautiful classic one, with age toning. But it is near and dear to me..... Would only trade for another TeNo Item, or an SS Item. (Sounds tough, but I'm not )

ORPO - I just had a felling that you had some more TeNo Uniforms in your super stash of Cloth. Thanks.

1942 & 1942 'Die Deutsche Polizei' Book - YES, I'll purchase one, or both, from anyone who has an extra!!

Attached is a Photo of 3 Sharp looking TeNo Officers(?) from my 1934 Album. They really look professional.

Dave dblmed

Dave dlbmed are those pictures that you show on the 3rd page from this jacket

Hi GARY8 ..... The TeNo Police Black Patch & TeNo Black sleeve Diamond (Raute) are from a TeNo Police Uniform of estimated 1944-45 vintage. The Uniform cloth is what I would characterize a Gray-Green (actually more Greenish) - matching the RATE TeNo Police Side Cap that ORPO Posted on Page 3.

Gary ... Please Post some of your TeNo Items, of any type, as we are seeing 'new' TeNo items, and expanding our knowledge of the Technische Nothilfe. Dave dblmed

Gary, Sorry... I see that I didn't properly answer your Question. NO, the page 3 described sleeve items are not from the 1934 TeNo Uniform. It was a Dark Blue / Black (Almost Black) in that time frame. Dave dblmed

Dave dlbmed No you missunderstand are the pictures of the black eagle and TeNo raute from my jacket

Hi Gary, I have the two Rare TeNo Sleeve Insignia cataloged as being from the collection of a fellow Police / TeNo collector in England. (We share our images, trade TeNo items, and allow permission to Post each other’s images.) I also do search the General Web, and other Militaria Forums, for related Police / TeNo Items & catalog them for reference.

Gary, If the 2 Images are from your Uniform instead, & I have mistakenly mis-filed / cataloged them to my English collector buddy, I sincerely apologize for doing so, and for posting them without your prior permission. I want to give credit to the proper collector, and only use images when authorized to do so. I am very careful in my Postings, to obtain prior permission to Post, and to give credit due to the owner collector / site of origin.

"IF" I mistakenly Posted parts of a Uniform in your collection, it would be wonderful - if you chose to do so – to Post this quite rare Uniform, and share it with this TeNo discussion.

I wrote to Ernst at Germanpolice.org, and have received his permission to Post some fantastic TeNo Shoulderboard images, from a Police Order (Referenced May 19, 1943.

………." Hi David, You may use the images of the TENO shoulderboard page. Please credit the pictures that you use and mention that you got my permission. Then all is OK. Kind Regards, Ernst……"

I will Post the Germanpolice.org, Images , when the computers are working & we can post Images again.

Dave dblmed

TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs – as of 5-19-1943 – Posted here are the "Ranks & Shoulderboards & Collar Tabs) as listed in a Documented Reference from a Police Notice dated May 19, 1943. (Many thanks to Ernst, WebMaster @ GermanPolice.org, for permission to use / Post his GPO Images - & for updating and furnishing the actual Images …. Txs, Ernst!!)

(# 1) ... 1943 TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs
........ & the Name of the Corresponding Rank.. ……. To Follow………..

Dave dblmed

Image uploading is still 'on the blink' so I'll try to Post tomorrow. Dave dblmed

Here now an 'early ' EM Teno visor cap . This one belongs to my son Douglas .

Close-up of the 'early cap insignia .Note the early type army eagle .

..and a close-up of the one unit wreath .Looks like the early Kyffhaeuser Bund wreath but with the integral TN symbol.

Sideview of the visor cap .

Interior sweat shield and owner's name . I can not make out the manufacturer;--any ideas ???-

My little jacket

the markings inside

sidecap

BERND / DOUGLAS - What a Superb 'Early' TeNo EM/NCO Visor - with TeNo Insignia which I have NEVER Seen published in any TR Visor Books!! The Massive TN Insignia is just stunning... The Maker is NOT EREL, so this once again substantiates my belief - that the earlier TN Visors were NOT made by EREL. Note also the 'Smooth' Banding - instead of it being Ribbed. Perhaps a '1 of a Kind' surviving Early Example.

GARY8 - Your TeNo Police Jacket is again, Superb, beyond words - and an extremely RARE TR Example!!! Thanks for sharing... I have, on reliable sources, that your TeNo Police Jacket, with Black TeNo Eagle Police Patch & TeNo Police Arm Raute - comprise only 2 of the complete known Examples of this RARE Uniform / Jacket!!! Again, RARE, beyond belief. (Note that the Patch & Raute that I posted on Page 3 are from Gary's Jacket.)

Your TeNo Police Cap, with the Black Banding - is another quite Rare piece showing period wear. (I understand that the 'honest' cloth wear shown is from the owner wearing a helmet over it.)

For ALL of us who appreciate the Technische Nothilfe, What a treat to see these RARE TN & TeNo Police Items (!) Thank you Bernd, Douglas, and Gary8....

TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs – as of 5-19-1943 – (Many thanks to Ernst, WebMaster @ GermanPolice.org, for permission to use / Post his GPO Images - & for updating and furnishing the actual Images …. Txs, Ernst!!)

(# 1) ... 1943 TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs
........ & the Name of the Corresponding Rank.. ……. 2 More To Follow………..

Dave dblmed

(# 2) ... 1943 TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs
........ & the Name of the Corresponding Rank.. (Many thanks to Ernst, WebMaster @ GermanPolice.org, for permission to use / Post his GPO Images - & for updating and furnishing the actual Images …. Txs, Ernst!!)

Dave dblmed

(# 3) ... 1943 TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs
........ & the Name of the Corresponding Rank.. (Many thanks to Ernst, WebMaster @ GermanPolice.org, for permission to use / Post his GPO Images - & for updating and furnishing the actual Images …. Txs, Ernst!!)

Dave dblmed

(# 3) ... 1943 TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs
........ & the Name of the Corresponding Rank.. (Many thanks to Ernst, WebMaster @ GermanPolice.org, for permission to use / Post his GPO Images - & for updating and furnishing the actual Images …. Txs, Ernst!!)

OOOOPS - Is better with the IMAGES ! ! !
Dave dblmed

1943 TeNo Shoulderboards & Tabs & Corresponding Rank:

COMMENTS, After Studying Ernst's Images of the TN Collar Tabs - It is apparent that the Similarity to the SS is evident, even to a casual observer.

I find it interesting that the Black Tabs have a 'Silver Corded' border, for the higher ranks!! Yet, in 1942 (I believe) the SS did away with Silver Cording!!! Therefor, these "LATE" TeNo Tabs could well be confused with "Earlier" SS Tabs? (I have never seen the Backs of the TN Tabs however) ....Just my observation, and subject to the learned and more experienced interpretation by others...

(Txs again, Ernst, WebMaster @ GermanPolice.org).

Dave dblmed

Here are some very fine pictures that are on this forum somewhere that belong to Robert Noss, Hope you dont Robert

One more

Excellent pictures!

Well, since everyone liked the last cap so much, here is another one - this time an officer's. A friend of mine purchased this cap at a flea market here in Germany for 250 Euros! Unfortunately, I had to pay him a bit more than that to pry it loose. When it was purchased, it was still in the original cookie tin that the family had stored it in all these years.
Doug

Pic2...

Pic3...

Pic4...

Very nice pictured indeed, as well as a very nice TN cap.

Here is one of the black TN Pol eagles for the thread. A little damaged from removal but none the less scarce.

Bernd,thanks for starting this thread. I'm sure this one will continue as more TeNo items and information are aquired.
Doug you've been getting some great items. Do you think you'll make it to the Union show in July? It's been awhile since we've talked.

Some nice TeNo items for sale on Weitze's site this week

Raymond,
Great to hear from you. How I wish I could make the Union show in July. That was always a good show with great people. Unfortunately, its just too far away these days.
Please say 'HI' to everyone for me!
Doug

DOUG - What a Super TN Officer Visor, and EREL Maker ... you have a Stash!!

GARY8, and All - in the Noss 3 TN Officer's Photo, the most Senior Man (in the middle) appears to be wearing a different 'Colored' TN/Police Sleeve Eagle Patch, yet he has the TN Uniform, and TN Raute on the lower sleeve.
(1) What COLOR Police Patch do you feel he is most likely to be wearing?

RAYMOND, you are Right, we have BERND to thanks for getting this Thread off & going strong. Thanks.

Before DOUG Posts another fantastic Cap or Visor, I'd like to slip one in. Here are the TeNo Officer & EM Sidecaps - Side-By-Side. (My Photo quality is NOT that of Robert Noss!!!)

Dave dblmed

TN Side Caps #2 .... Dave dblmed

#3) TN Side Caps - END ON ... Dave dblmed

#4) TN Side Caps - It is interesting to me that BOTH the Officer & EM have the Fine Silver (Aluminum) Tread (?Flatware) Weave to them.

Officer's Edge Cording - in Silver (Aluminum) Tread Mesh Cord. Dave ....dblmed

TN Officer's Dagger & Unusual BROWN Sleeve Eagle. The TN Officer's Dagger & EM's Hewer got me interested in TeNo .... and developed an insatiable desire to learn more about this semi-obscure Organization.

NOTE (NB) - the BROWN TN Sleeve Eagle, in the lower Left. (We Discussed the GREEN TN Sleeve Eagle & ORPO showed in use.) The TRUE Color of the BROWN TN Sleeve Eagle is a TAN. (My Flash Photo shows it Darker.)

ORPO, an Others - is this a yet another Example of a Drilling / Work Uniform TN Sleeve Eagle?

Dave dblmed

BROWN TN Sleeve Eagle (Too Dark, due to Flash)
Dave ...dblmed

Here is a Photo of a TRUE TeNo 'Big Wig' - wearing the "Turkish Star-WW1" on the Right Pocket - EK1 on the Left - & a Medal Bar which must weigh him down.

Taken in Belgium in 1941
FRONT OF PHOTO - Dave ... dblmed

BIG WIG - Nice view of TN Collar Tabs, Shoulder Boards, TN Buttons, & TN 'Split Collar' Jacket.

NOW REVERSE - Need "HELP" with Translation.
Dave ...dblmed

Our TeNo BIG WIG with his AUTO. This points out exactly what ORPO taught me, in that TeNo & Polizei were working together ... long before the 43 SS Transition. (Check out the License Plate) .... Dave .... dblmed

REAR OF PHOTO -
(Note the 1941 Date - And Other Photos Place Him in Belgium.)
Need Help with Translation.
Dave ... dblmed

Now for a Close Up - FRONT of CAR:
a. POL for Polizei on Right Front of Car.
b. Nice TeNo Emblem on Left Front of Car.

ORPO, you get 4 Gold Stars, as a super teacher.
(I forgot to congratulate you on the really neat TN / Police Sleeve Eagle ...it's 'beed there' and that's good.) ....Dave ... dblmed

NEXT is a Staff Mann for our prior noted distinguished TeNo Officer ..... TN had 'requisitioned' a Schloss (Castle) for their office in Belgium, 1941 - As the Rear of the Photo notes. FRONT ... Dave ....dblmed

BACK of PHOTO: This identifies the Mann as TN Vormann ALFRED WUNSCHE, unser Postminister (is that a 'Post Master' or a 'Minister / Official of some Post??'

He's posing for his girlfriend back home on the Balustrade of Schlosses HEMIK-SEM, in Belgium at the end of March, 1941... Dave ...dblmed

NEXT UP - is another member of the TN Officer's Staff, housed at the Castle in Belgium. I have other photos of him doing 'paper work' - and he does look studious.

Good Uniform Study. Uniform Cloth 'seems' a bit rough; TN Shoulder Boards & Collar Tabs & TN Buttons & the Left Sleeve TN Eagle.

The 'BLANK' Right Collar Tab bothers me - but I need to get over it - because there are LOTS of Photos of Blank Right Tabs in this 1941 Group of Photos. Dave ....dblmed

BACK of PHOTO: Looks like his name is:
"TN Mann Herzog Karlowi(t)z" as best I can read it. Dave dblmed

Last of the TN Photos in Belgium, 1941 is the one of 5 TN men, sitting in, or leaning on a Van. (Probably outside of the Schloss). (No writing on the Back...)

UNIFORM COMMENTS: Look at their Uniforms, and we see the TN Sleeve Eagle, Cap Eagle, Shoulder Boards, and Collar Tabs (Again ALL are Blank Right Tabs) ... BUT There are NO Buttons on the Uniforms!!! So, this has to be an 'inside buttoned' Tunic...

Does Anyone have an EXAMPLE of this Style of TN Jacket?
That would be very Interesting!!! Dave ...dblmed

Dave : The translation of the photo back of the "Big Wig " Is :"(Our)Commander Hauptbereitschaftsfuehrer Lohmar " . AND of the next photo : " Our OLD (one ) : as Hauptbereitschsftsfuehrer--1941 "

BERND, Thank you for the Translation! How, I now wish that I had studied German in school


BERND, you posed the important question several days back of "What do the Roman Numerals & Arabic Numbers mean on the TeNo Right Tabs?" It is also a question that has always puzzled me as well. So, I went looking for the TeNo answer.

Brian Leigh Davis, in "Badges & Insignia of the Third Reich" – 1st printed in 1983, and last reprint (to my knowledge 1994), states on Page 47, in Reference to Illustrated Plate 20:

(Referring to the TeNo RIGHT COLLAR TAB): "… The combination of Roman numerals and Arabic numerals differed according to the number of the wearer's TeNo Unit and Detachment…"

Yes, that is helpful, but what does Unit & Detachment really mean?

I think that the answer can be found upon examining the text of an original TeNo Ausweiss.

Take a look to solve a Mystery. ……. Dave ….. dblmed
Unit & Detachment

REVIEW OF A TENO AUSWEISS: Look Directly Next to the Photo, on the Top Right Line of the inside page of the TeNo Ausweiss. There is:

Stamm – Ortsgruppe …….. this is followed, directly below it, by:
VI / 56

From this Information, one would then Reasonably Conclude that:

STAMM = is the Roman Numeral identifier "VI" … & that
ORTSGRUPPE = is the Arabic Number "56"

We know what an Ortsgruppe is, but I do not know what a Stamm is, or was.

OK, so what does STAMM mean in TR German? In the Dictionary, it means "Trunk" so that is not so helpful – but may be symbolic.

QUESTION: ?
Who can explain what STAMM mean in the context of the TR? We ALL want to know ! ! !
Txs, Dave …… dblmed

I couldn't find "stamm" in my military dictonary by itself just words like "stammkompanie" which means cadre company or "stammeiheit" which is parent unit. I would guess it would be the same as "sturm" is to the SA/SS. But why the different word? More info brings more questions, but isn't it great? Look forward to finding out the answers.
The tunics look like Luftwaffe Fleigerblouses.

quote:

Originally posted by dblmed:
...in the Noss 3 TN Officer's Photo, the most Senior Man (in the middle) appears to be wearing a different 'Colored' TN/Police Sleeve Eagle Patch, yet he has the TN Uniform, and TN Raute on the lower sleeve.
(1) What COLOR Police Patch do you feel he is most likely to be wearing?.......

Dave,
Note the rank patches of the middle and left men. They are officer ranks and thus are wearing officers silver bullion sleeve eagles.
The man on the right is Meister der Teno which is the highest NCO rank. He thus has to wear NCO grade sleeve-eagle which is the one in black as Gary's jacket also nicely shows.

quote:

Originally posted by dblmed:
Now for a Close Up - FRONT of CAR:
a. POL for Polizei on Right Front of Car.
b. Nice TeNo Emblem on Left Front of Car.
.......

This car was registered in the city of Breslau

As the Teno had become a regular Auxiliary police they also got to use police registered cars. As this photo shows they did distinguish their cars with a Teno emblem. Same was done by other auxiliary police like Feuerwehr etc.

Here are pictures of my Teno Police outfit.
Doug
P.S. no idea why the boards have white underlay, but they are the slip-on boards that were on the tunic when it came out of the woodwork.

Teno Police Eagle...

Teno Police Overseas Cap...

Out of Respect for All of the hard work Bill has been / and is doing in ‘restoring’ the important deleted Threads, I have not posted in a few days. I don’t want any potential negative Cyber-Forces to be at work. It looks like it is Safe to post again.

Doug, What a fantastic TeNo Police Uniform you have displayed and shared = WOW. The Side Cap is in wonderful condition as well. Rare Items. It is fun to see another Example of that mystical ‘Black’ TeNo Police Sleeve Eagle Patch.

Bernd – thanks again for your Translating. The TN Photos mean even more to me now.

Raymond – we are looking the ‘mystical ‘Stamm’ meaning together. I went back in this thread to the other TeNo ‘ID’ book that I have & found another Word on line one. Take a look please & see if it makes any sense to you?

Ernst – Yes, Bullion Officer Shoulder Patch for 2 officers - & - the NCO ‘Black Eagle’ Patch for the Meister der TeNo. Now it makes sense to me. Thanks.

Dave …… dblmed

TN Oberzugfuhrer Shoulder Board (Mai/1943 – 1945):

From the information on Page 3 of this thread, as noted in the ‘Die Deutsche Polizei" 1945 TN Tach... (Edition) & from Ernst's ‘GermanPolice.Org’ - I believe that I have finally Identified the following Shoulder Board is that for a TeNo Oberzugfuhrer (Effective after May 19, 1943 – 1945).

Interestingly, the nicely detailed Gold ‘Pip’ is integral to the Board – with the Black Felt (?) material applied Over It. (The arms / wings of the ‘Pip’ never penetrated the Back of the Shoulder Board.) "IF" I am incorrect, please let me know!!!

Dave …… dblmed

TN Trade Badges

The TeNo Trade Badges have always been the MOST Difficult of the 'Standard' TeNo Cloth for me to find. (Thanks to Gary8's Tip, I finally picked up an example of one. I'll post the REAL Item here, when I receive it from Deutschland).

These Trade Badges are Circular, made of Black Silk (?) with White Tread TN Cogwheel and Gothic Lettering for the Trade / Branch. Hard to find!!! Dave ..... dblmed

Teno EM in wear.

ED - Superb Photo giving a TeNo cross section of a Rare instance of the TN EM Hewer (w Portepee) in actual Period wear ! ! !
Great Unifrorm Study for the Drilling Uniforms, Side Caps, Technische Nothilfe Cuff Band - on a Drilling Uniform - and the Blue-Black Uniform & Visor in wear...

• (Ed ..... Hopefully, is the back of the Photo Dated??? Txs, Dave .... dblmed

superb thread allot of pricless information and I hope more to be added I suggest this topic be bookmarked

Paul

Hello,

This has been an interesting read, thank you. To be honest I have never considered the TENO as shown above to be "police". In my naievite' I have always thought that they did not become "police" until late in the war when police type insignia was adapted.

My experience with TENO insignia has been limited to the pursuit of the elusive black bird. That said, does anyone know when they switched to "police/SS" type insignia as shown here in a photo taken from an earlier thread?

So far we have been discussing TENO specific insignia, but at some point they became standardized with the police as shown. Note the police style "meister" shoulder boards and sleeve eagles & SS/police style collar tabs.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Here is another photo from the same album as the above photo, again posted in an earlier thread, that "seems" to show a tenopolizeimann with police litzen as well as shoulder boards and eagle.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Best TN information I have seen. I have always been under the impression that the TeNo organization still exists in Germany. If this is correct, I am sure that much of the original TN data still remains in the offices of the organization and maybe we can still hope that the list of the TN Dagger numbers still is in the archives somewhere.
I would hope that some of our German collectors would take it upon themselves to ask current members if they know of any archives of the pre war papers.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

quote:

Originally posted by W.Unland:
...So far we have been discussing TENO specific insignia, but at some point they became standardized with the police as shown. Note the police style "meister" shoulder boards and sleeve eagles & SS/police style collar tabs.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Order for starting to use police insignia with double rank tabs in ss-style was published in Mai 1943.

quote:

Originally posted by W.Unland:
Here is another photo from the same album as the above photo, again posted in an earlier thread, that "seems" to show a tenopolizeimann with police litzen as well as shoulder boards and eagle.

Regards,
Bill Unland

Bill,
i believe this man to be standard Schutzpolizei. The eagle seems to me to be too light to be black. Also look at the difference in darkness between the swastika weave and the eagle weave. I think he is wearing a green sleeve-eagle.
Based on the uniform he is wearing this picture was taken after february 1943.

TeNo - as POLICE FUNCTIONS: From 1936-1937 – 1945, TeNo became a Technical Auxiliary Corps of the Police and was absorbed into ORPO Hauptamt.

During the TR the TeNo focused on the Disaster Control and Air Protection (Katastrophenschutz und den Luftschutz) and was concentrated as part of the safety and emergency service (Sicherheits- und Hilfsdienstes).

TeNo, in 1936, became a Technical Auxiliary Police Troop (Technischen Hilfspolizeitruppe) under the auspices of the Order Police Hauptamt (ORPO - Ordnungspolizei) and thus part of the power apparatus of the SS. By 1943, the TeNo is reported to have had over 100,000 members, possibly even more. Dave …… dblmed

TeNo’s Founder, Otto Lummitzsch, forced to Resign = due to wife of Jewish ancestry:

TeNo’s Founder Otto Lummitzsch initially founded the TeNo (Technische Nothilfe) on September 30, 1919, with the purpose to protect and maintain vital, strategic facilities (eg gas works, waterworks, power stations, the railways, post offices, agriculture concerns and food production facilities) in the wake of the near civil war within Post WW1 Germany.

During the TR, the TeNo Reichsamt was situated in Berlin-Steglitz and divided into Landesgruppen, Bezirksgruppen und Ortsgruppen.

I find it historically fascinating to note, that the TeNo’s founder, Otto Lummitzsch, was forced to vacate his position as Director / Conductor of the organization in 1934 - because his wife was of half Jewish ancestry.

Otto Lummitzsch’s TN successors were then in each case men of SS Rank:

1934 - ? Unlisted ?
June 1937 - Juli 1943 was Hans Weinreich,
15 October 1943 - Mai 1945 was Willy Schmelcher.

Dave …… dblmed

TeNo – Post WW2 ? = TeNo became THW (Technische Hilfswerk)

In 1945 the Allied Powers dissolved TeNo. However On September 16, 1950, Its functions were resumed, when Once again, Otto Lummitzsch (the ORIGINAL founder to the TeNo in 1919 ! !) formed the THW (Technisches Hilfswerk, lit: Technical Relief) within the German Federal Republic. The THW exists to the present day tasked with various Civil Defense responsibilities.

(Taken from THW Web Page). "For more than 50 years, the Technische Hilfswerk has been operating in Germany every day in order to render technical assistance.The competent help of the "Blue Angels", as the volunteers of the Technische Hilfswerk were called by the French population after their operation in France in 1999, has ranged from the disasters that moved the nation in the 1960s, such as the flood in Hamburg and the mining accident of Lengede to the floods of the Elbe and Oder at the beginning of the new millennium.The repair work after the storm tide in the Netherlands in 1953 marks the beginning of the missions of the Technische Hilfswerk abroad. It was followed by humanitarian assistance after drought periods, civil wars and earthquakes in Africa, Europe and South America, as well as in South and South-East Asia after the Tsunami disaster.In 2005, the Technische Hilfswerk provided technical assistance to the United States for the first time in its history."

Therefore, RON has a very valid point - since the THW 'may' have maintained some of the prior TN (TeNo) information!! (That would be a fantastic link to obtain ID numbers on TeNo Daggers ! ! !)

Upload THW Logo Dave …… dblmed

Dear Ernst,

Thanks for the info regarding uniform changes, and you are probably right about the 2nd photo I offered.

Regards,
William Unland

TeNo is a much overlooked subject and as it is with all these branches of the 3rd Reich that are not so popular for the "main-stream" collectors, it is hard to find information.

I will post here some of my (only) photos that I have, coming from one person and a few documents which are interesting too.

Let's start with some photos.

This is the man on his wedding day:



At some time, he was injured by an accident:



The following photos were made in Polish part of Russia, as one caption says:













The following photos show TeNo-members with the arm-badge for Staff personal and graduates from the Reichsführerschule of the TeNo:









It seems that this man later was transfered to the army, next photo dates from 1943:



And on the next photo he wears a Sonderführer uniform which makes sense, cause the technical specialists of the TeNo were also needed at the army



So far for the photos.

Robert

Now here are some documents. They are not from the same man as the photos above.

These docs come from a big documents group from the mayor of the small bavarian city of Herrsching, which is just a few miles from my hometown.

Starting with an official paper - a "Call" to all Nothelfer to buy and read the magazine "Die Räder" (The wheels):



Next one is quite interesting, as it was classified "Secret". It deals with the assignment of TeNo-men (Nothelfer - NH ) to the Westfront. The Ortsgruppe Starnberg (which is the bigger city next to Herrsching ) had asked for a number of men to be named as Nothelfer and has received already a list with names.



Next one is in the same context, a few days later and specifies the professions that were needed. The men should be born between 1897 to 1914 and should be of good health.



Next one dates from Oktober 1940 and is now speaking of 1200 men to be assigned to the west ( Abstellung nach dem Westen )



However it seems that these assignments didn't last for long time in some cases. Next two docs from september and oktober 1940 tell us about two men who already had re-joined their normal work again and should be informed to give back their clothes and equipment, especially the "Waffenschein" - the license for carrying weapons.





Last one is dated from august 1941 and is again a "call" for certain men to a "Polizei-Einsatz" - a police-mission, where also medics, doctors, cooks, butchers, bakers, tailors, shoemakers, drivers and administration personal is wanted.



To come back to the question about the roman and latin numbers - yes, the roman number was for the Ortsgruppe, VII in this case was for sure for the city of Munich. The number combination for Starnberg in this case was VII / 2 - which explains the Stamm - the Stamm was for sure a city or region within the Ortsgruppe.

Hope You could find some helpful information here.

Kind regards
Robert

Here is one portrait I almost forgot:



Robert

Robert, great photos and documents. Thanks for sharing them. what color uniforms do you think the men are wearing, fieldgray?

quote:

Originally posted by Robert Noss:
Here is one portrait I almost forgot:



Robert

WOW Robert! Some great TN doc collection there. Is the TN officer in the portrait the one who signed the documents?
I joined the US Army in 1961 to go to Germany so I could get a chance to personally SEE the places that my collecting had led me. I was instead sent to Ft Riley, KS, (I guess the Army's practical joke on me), so I could more closely examine corn and wheat fields!
Beautiful docs!
Regards, Lloyd

These documents are very intersting . To call on a small city like Berg , with around 6,ooo people , to furnish so many with so many different skills seems way out-of-line ! Unless they are calling on the entire VII district . I grew up in Munich and went on summer outings as a kid to the Starnberg lake and to a camp for kids run by the US.Army at the Ammersee nearby ; this around 1948 , when I was 8 years old ! The Americans fed us lot of hot chocolate with cornflakes ;--we were all happy about that , not having seen ever any chocolate during the war .

bernd, it is a known FACT, that ALL kids NEED chocolate! Good that the GI's gave it to you!

Lloyd

Lucky me , I just receved in the mail the TENO shoulder boards that match the collar tabs I showed at the start of this thread : Oberscharfuehrer rank.

...and backsides of these slip-on type boards.

Here now the after 1943 shoulder boards for a TENO Meister rank .

..and for Oberzugfuehrer rank .

...and for Bereitschaftsfuehrer rank . The paper tag shows that they cost RM 3.40 .

..and the last one for Landesfuehrer rank .

Hi Bernd

Nice set of boards I particularly like the boards with the black centre stripe for Oberscharfuhrer, After 43 these type of boards where used by the Luftschutzpolizei Instandsetzung (Repair Units) officers. The other ranks had a strange combination of White eagle, black collar patches and shoulderboards.

Of note I believe the Meister boards are postwar, these should have brown centres

I agree with Gary8, after RMBliV the center stripes may be dark brown, not black (or navy blue?).
Navy blue backing and stripes wore BGS-See before 2000(?).
Black backing and stripes wore TR Bahnschutz (2nd and/or 3rd pattern insignia)

This very nice silvered and hollow back TENO Visor Cap Eagle arrived for my son Douglas in the mail today .

Close-up of the center.

...and the hollow backside .

….. To ROBERT NOSS – a Great Big 100% ‘Thank You’ for taking the time to Post the very Rare & revealing TeNo Photos & Documents! They are so Rare & show us a great deal, regarding the ‘Period’ TeNo Organization. (They belong in that TeNo Book, which is yet to be written…)

PAGE 6 – POSTINGS

Photo 1: Shows the wearing of the ‘Rare’ Gray Topped TeNo Officer Visor (Instead of the Dark Blue) and it may also partially show the (?) ARROW arm-badge for Staff personal and graduates from the Reichsführerschule of the TeNo just above the TeNo cloth eagle on the left sleeve.
It also shows the TeNo Officer Dagger, with Portepee, in actual wearing use – quite Rare. The ‘Officer Grade’ TeNo cuff title – in Bullion is present. The officer has tucked some paper in his left ‘French Cuff’ – maybe the Marriage License J

o DISPLAY QUESTION? Does Anyone have and Example of the ‘Rare’ Gray Topped TeNo Officer Visor – to share with the Group?? It would be a "1st" for me to see one (!)

Photo 2: Nice Collar Tabs shown – for a TeNo Officer.

Photo 3: In Russia – Super examples of the TeNo EM & Officer ‘Mantels’ in wear, and great TeNo Tabs & Boards. The 2nd from the Right Officer has the Black / Very Dark Brown in Service / Working type Double Leather Hangers for the Officer’s Dagger. Super GRAY Visors … Again.

Photo 4: In Russia – Officer on Right has the ARROW arm-badge for Staff personal and graduates from the Reichsführerschule of the TeNo on the left sleeve & is armed with a small calibre pistol (? Mauser HSC, or other similar).

The Officer 3rd from the Right is even wearing a Sword!!! (There was no known TeNo Sword). Can’t identify what Sword type, but the sheath does look very straight – and a Polizei Degen / Sword would be appropriate. It is interesting, that Neither TeNo Officer wears the TN Cuff Title??

Photo 5: In Russia – Officer Mantels & the TeNo Officer’s Dagger in wear – but this time with what looks like the Cloth, Dress Hangers.

Photo 6: In Russia – No TeNo cuff titles for either Officer. Officer on the far Left – has that unknown Sword again.

Photo 7: In Russia – Nice mixture of EM Drillich Uniforms & what appears to be (?) NCO / Officer Drillich Uniforms (?) & the TeNo Officer Uniforms + assorted Visors, Caps & even a Helmet!

Photo 8: In Russia – Local Color with Russian villagers + the TeNo Officer has a holstered Pistol.

Photo 9/10: In Boat – Gray Visors + the ARROW arm-badge for Staff personal and graduates from the Reichsführerschule of the TeNo.

Photo 11/12: In Standing Formation – Pistol Armed Sr. Officer + 3 TeNo Men (2 Officers + 1 NCO) with the ARROW arm-badge for Staff personal and graduates from the Reichsführerschule of the TeNo.

Photo 13/14: Transfer to the Heer – Sonderfuhrer – 1943. NO TeNo Insignia on the Army uniform, as seen.
(I ‘believe’ that the TeNo Trade Badge ‘Circles’ may have also been worn on these Uniforms – to signify the TeNo designation, upon the transfer.)
(Also, Davis reports a TeNo sleeve patch, for TN Men assigned to the Heer.)

Dave …. dblmed

PAGE 7 – ROBERT NOSS - TeNo Paper Documents:

I, for one, was unaware of the magazine "Die Räder" (The wheels) – so, this is another TeNo Resource to look for, to add to the TN Collection.

Collar TABS 'Numbers' – ‘Comment’: "…Roman and Latin numbers - yes, the Roman number was for the Ortsgruppe, VII in this case was for sure for the city of Munich. The number combination for Starnberg in this case was VII / 2 - which explains the Stamm - the Stamm was for sure a city or region within the Ortsgruppe.…" . Great clarification ….

PAGE 7 - TeNo Officer Portrait Photo:

A Super Early Example of the Dark Blue TN Uniform w Visor + the Circle Trade Badge for (?) what looks like the AD (Allgemeiner Dienst, but it still is just slightly different) + an another Amazing shot of the TeNo Officer’s Dagger - in wear, with the Cloth Dress Hangers & tied Portepee.
It doesn’t get much better than these Photos & Documents..

Robert … Thank You Again …. As you have further Expanded the Horizons of Knowledge in the Exploration of & the Understanding of the TN – Technische Nothilfe…

Txs for ALL of the Photos & Documents (!).. Dave … dblmed

Thanks Dad for posting the teno eagle. I would like to thank Dave for the very nice trade offer he made in order to help me complete my Teno EM cap with the correct eagle.
Thanks DAVE!!!

DOUG & BERND .... You are very welcome (!) I knew that there had to be a better use / purpose for the Super Nickel Silver TeNo Eagle - and residing on Doug's Visor, is what it was meant to be.
Looking forward to seeing the Visor - with the 'Right' TeNo Eagle!! Dave ....dblmed

TeNo Trade Badge in Wear:
I am fascinated by the ROBERT NOSS last Photo, with the TeNo Trade Badge in Wear:

I enlarged the Image & made a Comparison to the Known Trad Badges - & the AD 'seems' to most closely match (to my eyes). The Gothic Script has more of a sweep to the 'A' but this could be an individual Maker's difference.

What do you think? Dave ..... dblmed

TeNo Officer in ? TeNo or Heer Uniform:

This is a very, very interesting Photo which I recently purchased. (I'm using the Web shots, as I have not received it yet, to scan it.)

The TeNo Officer has a HEER Eagle on the Right Breast! The rest of the uniform 'looks' TeNo, but a close up shows that NO TeNo buttons are present - they are smooth or slightly Pebbled.

What is your Opinion of the Uniform?
Txs, Dave ..... dblmed

Close Up Dave ....dblmed

Dave,

I bet that is not a sword but a cane that you see. I would think he went to a cane from the crutches as soon as he could after his injury.

George

Hello Dave,

thanks a lot for the nice words and the explanation of the photos which is of course also very educating for me.
I believe George is right about the cane. You can see the cane also on photo 11.

Kind regards
Robert

Dave talked about the TeNo trade badge for army soldiers.
Here is one photo with that badge in wear:



A small photo and not the very best sharpness, but still good to see



Kind regards
Robert

Wow! This is by far the best informative thread that I have seen here in a long time. Refreshing! Thanks to all you guys. I'm facinated.

-wagner-

ORPO / George & Robert Noss – Thanks for your ‘Eagle Eyes’ in spotting a Cane… Instead of a Sword!!! (I got too Excited!) Yes, it makes Perfect Sense…. The Officer goes from being a Groom … to Crutches …. So, a Follow Up use of a Cane is just Logical.
(It is even More Embarassing for me – because I am a Surgeon, someone who is Supposed to SEE these type of things. I may need to turn in my Scalpel & start to work for one of the SICKO type Medical HMO’s! But, I think that I’ll hold out a little longer as a Pvt. Doc.)

ROBERT …& Others – I believe that the Attached GREEN BeVo type TeNo Patch is the Same One which is so nicely shown on the RIGHT Sleeve of your Army Uniform Photo? (BERND or Raymond showed a similar one on a prior page of this thread).
What do you think about it? Txs, Dave ……. dblmed

TeNo Sleeve Trade Badge for the TD Class
Thank You GARY8 !!! ……….From Gary’s kind ‘tip’ - I was able to pick up not One (1), but Two (2) of the elusive TeNo Dienstabzeichen Trade Badges – for the TD Designation, in perfect Condition. (I Have been looking for ‘Any’ one of the 7 Types for over 5 years, with no luck.
Now suddenly I have 2 of the same – so, "IF" one you other TeNo collectors has a Duplicate Trade Badge, or Sleeve Arrow – now is the time for a Trade amongst us ‘Hard Core’ TeNo guys!!! Txs, GARY8 …. Dave ….. dblmed

TeNo Officer Bullion ‘OVAL"
This item of TeNo Cloth is not seen too often in Collections. It is a Bullion Oval (Officer Quality). When purchased, I was ‘told’ that it was for wear on the Blue Uniform on the Right Pocket …. But I have Not seen any written, or Photographic Evidence of the Bullion Oval in actual wear.

Does Anyone Know Any more about the TN OVAL? Txs, Dave ….. dblmed

BERND ….. WOW…You have received some Superb TeNo Shoulder Board Sets! Great Catch … as these TN Ranks are seldom seen. Having matching TN Collar Tabs - & - Shoulder Boards … is quite an Accomplishment! Even if the ‘Meister’ is post WW2, what a nice continuum of the TeNo. Congrats!!
I see that you ‘May’ have some duplicates – so, it is TeNo Trade time, unless Doug beats me to the Cloth Treasures ! ! ! Dave ….. dblmed

TeNo Sleeve Patch – BEFORE the TeNo Eagle Patch Existed: From studying Period Photographs, It is my belief that the below shown 2.5 Inch X 2.5 Inch TeNo Cloth Sleeve Patch, is a relatively Scarce Surviving Patch. (WHY? Because I feel certain that it was replaced by the TeNo Sleeve Eagle, and thus was no longer was needed, & was put away or discarded! So, surviving examples are 'Scarce' & are difficult to locate.)

Photos Posted previously show this Patch (which, at 1st glance ‘looks’ like it was cut out of a TeNo ‘White’ Arm Band) in wear – sewn to the LEFT Shoulder area – in the same spot where the TeNo Eagle Patch will later appear. (See my 1934 Photos Post)

Also Photos show this Small Patch in Use / Wear at the Same Time – as the White TeNo Armband. So, we can conclude that they are contemporary in time – at least from the onset. (The White TeNo Armband definitely did survive longer – and it is ‘fairly’ common).

It is my belief that this small TeNo Sleeve Patch was the Predecessor of the more familiar Left Sleeve TeNo Eagle Patch.

WHEN? Did the Change take Place? I don’t know – Yet. But we can narrow down the time of transition to the TeNo Sleeve Eagle with Photos. This Patch was present, for sure, per Photos in 1934-35. Then we see the TeNo Eagle in 1940 dated Photos. (Also my Period Schneiderei Catalog, Page 3 of this Thread - is dated as of 1940 as well.) So, it appears that the ‘transition’ was at least between 1935 and 1940. (We are down to a 5 year time Span!) I am sure that additional Photos, will even further narrow down the ‘Exact’ date of the Transition to the TeNo Eagle Sleeve Patch. Meanwhile, enjoy this little ‘older’ one. Dave ……… dblmed

quote:

Originally posted by bernd:
Here now the after 1943 shoulder boards for a TENO Meister rank .

Bernd

I think these might just be post war Niedersachsen Polizei. See Scan

Andrew

BEVO - BARMEN

Dave, Barmen is a district in the city of Wuppertal. BeVo-Barmen and BeVo-Wuppertal were very likely identical firms.
In many books about insignia it is said, that the firm BeVo ( Bandfabrik Ewald Vorsteher ) was heavily bombed in the end of the war and didn't exist after 1945. That maybe true, but I have an item that is clearly after 1945 and also has the name BeVo





These are clothes tags with initial letters. The little term "DBWZ" = " Deutsches Bundes Warenzeichen " places them in a time after 1948.

The squirrel on the box is a trade mark and it says " BeVo since 1896 " - so there must have been a period after the war when the firm BeVo was still producing.

Kind regards
Robert

Robert,

Thanks for showing your postwar Bevo insignia. It is amazing how these old tales continue to exist.

Fantastic informative thread! I have enjoyd it thoroughly!

Regards,--dj--Joe

Question to the TENO guys:
Did TENO issue a gorget? If so, when? Has anyone seen a real one....anywhere?? Thanks!
-wagner-

I know of only one book dealing with gorgets and it shows 2 different ones. the first is for the standart bearer which came out in 1937 (?).Similar to the SA's (Heart shaped). the second is for technical inspector and is similar to the Feldgendarmerie in shape (Half-moon). I've never seen one, real or other wise. that would be a center piece to a collection.

TeNo Gorgets ...Wagner, yes, these Gorgets are an 'Ultra' Rarity, even as noted in the text of the Referenced Book. There is not even a Full Photo of the TN Flagbearer's Gorget - just a Drawing of it!

Raymond, you are 100% right ... either TeNo Gorget would indeed be the Center of a TeNo Collection. (Did you refer to this Deeter / Odegard Gorget Book, or another Text.)

Who has a TeNo Gorget to Show to us?
Dave ...dblmed

I know of ONE original TeNo Gorget that is in a midwest collection and have heard that one is in France in a collection and one is in the hands of a veteran in the northwest and that's all I have heard of in 50 plus years in this hobby. The rarest gorget that was an issue piece (I do know of some one-of-a-kind prototypes in a collection).
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

RON .... You've just about seen it ALL in TR Items & Effect .... So I guess that makes these TeNo Gorgets ...."Rarer than Rare" !!

ROBERT NOSS ...Thanks for the BeVo Barmen informative explanation + dispelling the 'Rumors' that BeVo died pre WW2! Nothing like Facts to help there. Great Item.

HUNTZMAN ...Txs, for the Post War Tabs .... as they initially really look close to TR Items, until you see the Real Deal .... Dave .......dblmed

Holy Smoke! Talk about Rare!
I had no idea it was THAT rare.
Thanks Raymond, Dave and Ron!
This must be the Holy Grail of Gorgets,
other than prototypes?

-wagner-

Dave , yep that's the book. Look at page 164. There's a photo of one in wear, just the upper third is shown and at an angle but still an unmistakeable TeNo gorget in wear.

Here now a tunic that seems to follow the Teno very close for the new service in Germany with the letters: " T H W "-- I assume : Technische Hilfs Wehr " . The tunic is made of heavy dark gray wool .

The sleeve Bevo is a full 4-inches wide .

..and the collar tab is of black wool with a twisted silver thread border . The tab measures 2 1/4 by 1 1/2-inches .

Cose-up of the upper breast pocket and center closure buttons . The gilt brownish -gray buttons are hmkd to " OLC-OVERHOFF&CE-21M ".

The tunic has 2 side belt hooks that fasten to interior support straps.

Underside of the collar . The tunic has a black silk liner , the sleeves have a gray silk liner with black stripes . The tunic has 2 upper interior breast pockets and a knee wound-pack pocket on right hand liner base a the center closure .

A more intersting upper front tunic view .

In the inside breast pocket I found this Manufacturer's Paper .

TENO URKUNDE – for the Ehrenzeichens (HONOR BADGE)

The year dated TeNo Honor Badges themselves are deservedly very sought after Badges for we Collectors. Paper items seem to be even harder to find than cloth or metal items – as so many conditions destroy the paper.

I’ve been very fortunate to acquire the URKUNDE for the Awarding of the TeNo Honor Badge, Number 1638, of 1920 Honor Date – & awarded on October 1st, 1935. (Which
was, I believe, the initial awarding date for this series of Badges. The Badge honored the
long serving active TeNo Cadre Members of ?1919 - 1923 Dates, with uninterrupted tenure.

(This is the 1st TeNo Urkunde which I have
personally seen – although others surely exist.

If someone is Lucky enough to have the 1920 TeNo Honor Badge # 1638 – then we need to do some serious talking J )

Apologize for the Posting size, but the Urkunde is really detailed & is HUGE = 11" x 16". The printed copy of the Medal is Larger than Lifesize at 3" x 2" & actually has the 1920 Date on it!

Txs, Dave / dblmed

I am pleased to share with you a nice earlier period TeNo Officer Photo which I just received (Always looking for Items from the Technische Nothilfe – and am happy to find them!)

Interesting Details / Comments on the TeNo Photo that I see - are:

a) Triangle TeNo Eagle Patch – Left Lower Shoulder
b) ‘Arrow’ – Reich’s Leadership School – Left Upper Shoulder
c) TeNo ‘Named’ Logo Center Button (Other 2 ‘shine’ out of focus.)
d) Cross Strap – Right Side (Indicative of an earlier Uniform)
e) WW1 Parade Bar – with WW1 EK2 – ? KVK - ? Long Service
f) Collar Tabs – Left – Cog Wheel + 5 Pointed Leaf (Represented a number of Ranks – depending upon the 3 time frames of Rank Changes
g) Collar Tabs – Right – Appear to be the Roman Numeral over Arabic Numeral
h) TeNo Visor w Metal TeNo Eagle / Metal Laurels & ****ade
i) Officer Visor Band – Striped (? Colors ?) - ? Significance
j) ? Unknown part of a Patch on Right Sleeve vs. Photo Smudge.

Based Upon the TeNo Sleeve Eagle Triangle & other factors seen – I would ‘guestimate’ the time frame of the Photo as 1935-39, & I am leaning more toward the earlier date. Those more knowledgeable may see details that I don’t see – or interpret the findings in another manner. FRONT of PHOTO....
Txs, Dave / dblmed

REVERSE of the Above Photo...

If anyone can extract any Data from the Reverse writing, that would be super. Dave / dblmed

This thread has been a very interesting and enriching read. I was asked by Dave if I could post my TeNo Brocade belt. I hope you enjoy.

Dan

buckle front

reverse of buckle

Please let me know if you would like more photos. Thanks

DOUBLE WOW!!! .........
.....Dan was kind enough to Post his COMPLETE TeNo Officer's Buckle & the Brocade (!)

This, to most, this is it! The "HOLY GRAIL" of Buckle Collectors & TeNo Collectors. Beyond Rare - let's go ULTRA-Rare. 99% of us will never get to see / hold a TeNo Officer Buckle ..... & the TeNo Brocade is even 'Rarer.'

MOST Dealers .....have Never seen one.....

Dan notes that the Brocade coloration is two very dark blue stripes. The backing is dark blue wool.

Thanks Dan ....this is quite Special. Dave / dblmed

Great to view. Thanks Colonel!
We see TENO officers daggers but why is this Belt & Buckle so very rare? Was it a limitied production piece?
Thanks,
-wagner-

Hello All,

Thanks for all the positive feedback on the brocade. As to the why of it's scarcity, I cannot explain other than most are in collections. I know one collector who has a number of them in his collection but he also has the world's most prolific brocade collection. Daggers also are fairly rare but I agree they seem to be more available.

Thanks to Dan D.......

Scarcity? I believe that this is due to the LATE Date
of Introduction of the Officer's Buckle / Brocade in
1940.

There were 'many' more pressing 'War' Events going on
- than purchasing a 'Dress' Buckle/Brocade for Dress &
Parade purposes.(The NEW Littlejohn's "Defending the
Reich" states that the TENO Officer's Buckle saw 'Limited
Use.' All of this ADDS up..... to Rarity. Dave/dblmed

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER (The Wheel) - 24/1936 - FRONT COVER

The TENO Organization published a Monthly (? or 2X/Mo.) Magazine, titled DIE RÄDER ("The Wheel" - in reference to the Cogwheel Logo.) Copies of these TR Period Publications are somewhat difficult to find.

Here is an Example of DIE RÄDER, issue 24 of 1936, at Christmas time......... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER (The Wheel) - 24/1936 - FRONT COVER

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER (The Wheel) - 24/1936 - BACK COVER

The DIE RÄDER back cover had a number of Advertisements - generally specific for TENO uses & purposes.

Unfortunately, I am not conversant in German, so you'll need to help me out! Some of what I see, are:

1) LEFT COLUMN: Gas und Luftschutz: A listing of Gas Equipment; Stahlheime (Helmets); Sanitäts-Material (1st Aid Supplies); Werkluftschutz Items & Much More.....

2) RIGHT COLUMN: TN - Dienstbedorf: A fantastic listing of the Suppliers of TENO Insignia, Cloth, Flags, Armbands, Armscheiben (TN Logo for Uniform Lt. Sleeve), Uniforms & Work Clothing.

It is a treat to be able to step back in time to 1936! .......... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER (The Wheel) - 24/1936 - BACK COVER

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 24/1936 - TN VISORS by CLEMENS WAGNER

Here is an AD page with MAN Diesels, AUER Gasmasks, Briketts, & most Importantly TN-Mutzen, by CLEMENS WAGNER.

For TENO Visor Collector, we are often told that EREL / Robert Lubstein was the ONLY Authorized Maker!!! (That is probably True for Late TENO Visors, but is shown to NOT be the case in 1936!

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 24/1936 - TN VISORS by CLEMENS WAGNER

B]TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 1936 - TN VISORS by CLEMENS WAGNER (LG)[/B]

Here is an Enlargement of the CLEMENS WAGNER Advertisement - 1936.
(There is nothing like TR Period Information for answering some Questions!) ..........Dave/dblmed

(LG)TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 1936 - TN VISORS by CLEMENS WAGNER (LG)

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 24/1936 - TN VISORS by ROBERT LUBSTEIN

YES, Indeed, the Robert Lubstein firm was also making TENO visors in 1936

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 24/1936 - TN VISORS by ROBERT LUBSTEIN

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 24/1936 - TN VISORS by ROBERT LUBSTEIN (LG)

Here is an Enlargement of the ROBERT LUBSTEIN Advertisement - 1936.
(There is nothing like TR Period Information for answering some Questions!)

So, We have two (2) listed TENO Visor makers in 1936 - for sure! ....Dave/dblmed

TENO Magazine DIE RÄDER - 24/1936 - TN VISORS by ROBERT LUBSTEIN (LG)

TENO Visor Makers......? German Language Analysis ?

For those of you fluent in German, being able to READ the Details of the Advertisements by CLEMENS WAGNER & ROBERT LUBSTEIN may undoubtably
add valuable information of these Visor Makers in the 1936 Time Frame.

Please ADD your Analysis & Assessment!!!

We ALL wish to learn more about VISORS & the TN - Technische Nothilfe. ........ Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave, great info there. I've never heard of this magazine before. Thanks for posting it.

RAYMOND,

Thanks ..... We All can just Keep Adding to Bernd's Original Thread....

Yes, It was only after Collecting TENO Items for about 5 years, that I learned of the TENO DIE RÄDER Magazine! (Some of us, like me, are slow learners!) But..... the more you look & read - the more you Learn & begin to Understand.

There is a Super NEW Book......for Luft, TENO, and Fire POLICE Especially - Thanks to the recommendations of Stonemint & Ernst-H,

The "Defending the Reich" came it today.........and

WELL - it's a Knock Your Socks Off Book!!!! 600+ pages.

For my Interests, it has 35+ Pages on TENO, with some

of the most magnificent Patches, Ranks, Visors, Sidecaps, etc.

WOW. ..... Best source of TENO Information that I have yet found,

& I have a 100+ Book WW2 Library........ & growing....

VISORS = YES, it has a lot of Diversity, but it is a one shot, one angle photo of them.

BUT, it makes it up in rarity: I'd never seen before, a:

a. White Topped TeNo Officer (2 Examples)
b. 'Piped' Coloration TeNo Blue Sidecap.
c. 3 Colors of TeNo Sidecaps: Blue - 'Police' Green - Army Gray

Ernst-H ...... I'll have to look at that Aguillette book! (Since it has a TENO Aguillette on the Rear Cover...... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO VISOR - OFFICER STYLE

The field of TENO Visors is a Complex One, to say the least!
Visors by:

1. Robert Lubstein / EREL
2. CLEMENS WAGNER
3. Unknown
4. Other Known Makers....as have been shown (& are Known).

Here is my TENO Officer Visor - No Maker
(*** I am not Positive 'if' the Visor Band is 'Correct.')

TENO VISOR - OFFICER STYLE - FRONT ......... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO VISOR - OFFICER STYLE - Right Side
......... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO VISOR - OFFICER STYLE - Left Side

......... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO VISOR - OFFICER STYLE - Interior

......... Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO 'EARLY' RANK BOARD .....Dave/dblmed

GREEN TENO SIDECAP - w GREEN "TENO" UNIFORM

This Photo (my coll.) also Shows a Very Interesting "TENO" Uniform Variation.

This TENO Mann is wearing the GREEN 'HEER' Style Uniform ..... but...
1) Look at the Buttons - They are TENO Logo (!)
2) So, in this Uniform Configuration - the Green Uniform is all Kitted out in TENO Only Insignia

GREEN TENO SIDECAP

I'd always felt that TENO Sidecaps were the NAVY BLUE. But, when I started studying Photos,& it became apparent that Other Color Sidecaps were also used by TENO.

**** I 'cheated' & Added a Green Tint to the Photo - as I want to Emphasize the GREEN)

GREEN TENO SIDECAP - w GREEN "TENO" UNIFORM
.........Txs, Dave/dblmed

GREEN TENO SIDECAP - w GREEN "TENO" UNIFORM - REVERSE SIDE of PHOTO

Here is the Back Side of the Same TENO Photo.

My German is not Great, but I think that it Reads:

"TN Man
GUSTAV SCHENK
Field Postmaster...."

Then the Number 20127 is 'Probably' the FELDPOST Number
.....Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO GREEN SIDECAP

These GREEN type TENO Sidecaps do not seem to come around
too very often. I feel fortunate to have snagged one! I would say
that they are not Rare, but perhaps 'Scarce.'

TENO GREEN SIDECAP.......Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO GREEN SIDECAP - Interior Markings

The GREEN type TENO Sidecap (& a BLUE Cousin) - Interior Markings

TENO GREEN SIDECAP - Interior Markings .......Txs, Dave/dblmed

BOARDS Unterwachmeister der TENO (post May 19, 1943) - 1

The TENO Rank Changes of May 19, 1943, made changes of:

a) NEW Boards - in the POLICE STYLE &
b) NEW Collar Tabs - in the SS (1942) Style (i.e. Silver Braided Edges in the Upper Ranks - a seeming Anomaly, as the SS had discontinued this previously?)

The 1943 & 1945 Polizei - Tachenbuch fur Technische Nothilfe - lists these Changes.

The New Rank of Unterwachmeister der TeNo is found on the 3rd Row, the 2nd from the Left........Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here are the 1945 TENO Rank Changes in the Polizei Book

BOARDS Unterwachmeister der TENO - 2

Ernst-H Illustrates same on his www.germanpolice.org

The New Rank of Unterwachmeister der TeNo is found on the 2nd Row.

Photo courtesy of Ernst-H .........Txs, Dave/dblmed

BOARDS Unterwachmeister der TENO - 3

I believe that these Boards are those of the Unterwachmeister der TeNo

An "SS" Collar Tab was Added (As I can not tell the 'difference' / if ANY between this series of TENO Collar Tabs & the Pre-1942 SS Tabs.) ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

FRONT SIDE - Boards & Tab - of Unterwachmeister der TeNo

BOARDS Unterwachmeister der TENO - 4

(The "SS" Tab is a 'Questionable' one & I've used it for Illustration).

*** Now, Just when I 'thought' that I was starting to understand these Complex TENO Ranks, Littlejohn's "Defending the Reich's" TENO Section shows a 'Different' Ranking!!! So, more Research & finding the TR Period Regs. ***

REVERSE SIDE - Boards & Tab - of Unterwachmeister der TeNo
....... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave Great boards I could do with some of those for my TeNo police jacket. If you locate anymore please let me know

quote:

Originally posted by bernd:
Here now an 'early ' EM Teno visor cap . This one belongs to my son Douglas .

I am glad it found a good home. I purchased it from Pat Anthony at a show in Marietta, GA. I had it for over a year and put a lot of efforts in finding the maker. No success. It is quite interesting to see some 'old friend' back on the forum. Hope Doug still has it. He was the only one making an offer, It was in the for sale section here for quite some time...

First of all, this really great thread!!!

dblmed,
are you sure the shoulderboards are WW2 TeNo? Or do you believe it?
I have exactly the same ones (new) from german eBay - afterwar era (from Ellingen, Bayern, Mittelfranken). Seller didn'nt know what it is. I suppose the my ones are for Polizei Niedersachsen from 70-ties.
To be true, I never saw TeNo police-like shoulderboards in reality, but there are 3 reasons for my 'feeling':
1) German police shoulderboards' underlay were made from rayon in war for men & NCOS.
2) Inverted V were ordered to be of 2mm thickness (after RErl from 2.10.1942 & from 19.5.1943).
3)I do not believe Germans used this high-quality wool for men's & NCO's shoulderboard underlay in (and after) 1943...

Jiri, You may well be Correct!!! The seller of my pair was not certain of the type, or date, of the Boards.(I 'felt' that they could be TeNo from the 'look' & researched them.)

1). To be 100% honest, I've never seen this post May 19, 1943 type of TeNo Boards, either in person / or in hand - and the few books only have Photos of them...(This date of TeNo Boards just aren't around)
2). I matched them up with the 1945 TeNo 'Printing' from the Polizei Book, & from the 'drawings' on Ernst-H's site. (Littlejohn's "Defending the Reich" TeNo section also shows similar boards.)
3). I've tried to get photos of the THW Insignia of post War, and have been unsuccessful.

However, I want to be 100% correct on TeNo, and if you have other information - that would be great to clarify these. I only want the 'real deal' to be shown & identified!

Thanks for your input!!! Dave/dblmed

Jiri, Super Great Photos .......... Hadn't seen them. Answered from my Email.
I'll be home on next Tues. & will measure the '2 mm' - but mine look to be
wider (25.4 mm / inch, or so.) Glad you posted your information and findings
here!!! "IF" you have any other pre-45 TeNo or post 45 THW (Technische Hilfs-
Werkes) Items, please add them it. The more information - the better!!!
Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO Large Car Photo VI/42

This is a fairly familiar TENO Photo of TN Men in a Large Vehicle.

What makes it interesting is the writing - on the SIDE:

ORTSGRUPPE FRUENDSCHWEIG (as best I read it?)

This helps us to ID those TENO Collar Tabs, which seem
to be so Mysterious with the Roman & Arabic Numbers, so:

ORTSGRUPPE = VI
FRUENDSCHWEIG = 42

(This may help us to Understand the TeNo RIGHT SIDED TABS,
& their Markings with Roman & Arabic Numbers!!!)

TENO Large Car Photo of VI/42 .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO TR PERIOD POST CARDS by Dobrich Stegliz

There were a large number of TENO TR Post Cards, Issued
in various series. They usually show TENO at Work, Marching
or with WHW Charity Efforts. Very Stunning.

(These are Pre 1937, as the TENO Arm Logo is still the Sewn On Type.
prior - to the Blue TENO Triangle Eagle Patch) .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO TR PERIOD POST CARD # 1 by Dobrich Stegliz

TENO TR PERIOD POST CARD # 2 by Dobrich Stegliz

PC # 1 (Above)...Look carefully, and you will see many of the 'Mystical' TeNo Gorgets in wear!!! (I have confirmed that they were authorized as of 1934 ...? still to answer, WHY so few are in existence?)

PC # 2 Attached.......
Has the TeNo Specific 'Jingling Johnnie'
TeNo Flags and Finial (Toppers)
Pre-37 TeNo Uniforms.. ....Txs, Dave/dblmed


TENO TR PERIOD POST CARD # 2 by Dobrich Stegliz

It must be read: Braunschweig...
http://andreas-linhardt.de/'s pages about TeNO -THW
THW-ranks: www.thw-goeppingen.de/kennzeichen.htm

Thanks Jiri,

Yes, the Andreas Linhardt book on the "TENO in the Weimar Republic" looks very interesting - but I don't speak German (Yet!). (Are there enought Photos in it, to make the purchase of the Book worthwhile... just for Photos??? (I Hope So...) ,,,, Txs, Dave/dblmed

Guys I love this blog! Super info! I have always found this group VERY interesting.

Love this dagger!

ERIC..... You are 100% Correct!!! TENO is a fascinating, but not fully understood organization.

Your TeNo Officer Dagger & 'Parade' Hangers are
really super & in the been there, but Great Condition!

Can't see too much Technische Nothilfe Items!! Dave/dblmed

The 2 TENO Dagger / Hewer Models are considered 'Scarce.' It has been stated that the TENO Officer Dagger is the Largest 'Standard' TR Dagger (? Don't know where the long DLV fits?)

It's fun to see TR Period References for Any Items, but especially our TENO Collectibles.

Next, is Original TR Publication series regarding the, then, new & upcoming release of the TENO Officer Dagger & NCO/EM Hewer.

This is from the DDP - Die Deutsche Polizei Magazine, January, 1939, Nummer 1,
7. Jahrgang, Seite (Page) 26.

DDP - Die Deutsche Polizei Magazine, January, 1939 -

TENO Daggers DDP Announcement #1...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Page 26, from DDP, with the 'New' TENO Dagger's Introduction....

Translation, is courtesy of ERNST-H at www.germanpolice.org .....:

Here is somewhat of a translation of the TENO dagger article:

"Technische Nothilfe wears sidearm (dagger. Members of the TN are, as the minister for internal affairs details in an order, given the honor of wearing a sidearm (leaders dagger or EM dagger (Hauer / Hewer) with their service dress under the following conditions: The sidearm is a part of the service dress of TN-leaders and emergency-helpers. Emergency-helpers in training (note: so not yet full member) do not wear the sidearm. The sidearm may only be worn when the TN-leader or emergency-helper is wearing full and complete service dress.

The leaders sidearm is worn by all TN-Leaders from the rank of Kameradschaftsführer and up. The dagger (Hauer) is worn by all other leaders ranks and TN-helpers. The Landesführer and Ortsführer are urged to instruct their subordinate leaders and emergency helpers about the wearing of the sidearm to prevent them from making mistakes and presenting an un-soldierly appearance.."

OF COLLECTOR'S INTEREST:
1. The TN Hauer/Hewer was NOT only an EM 'Dagger!'- as is noted in the TR Period Announcement / Regulation.

2. Note the 'Cog Wheels' in the Drawing, on the Hanger. Collectors will appreciate that the "Final" model of the Hanger had a Metal Band under the Cog Wheels - NOT leaving them exposed, as is shown in the Period Drawing.

DDP - Die Deutsche Polizei Magazine, January, 1939 - the TeNo Dagger's Announcement .........Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave and Bernd have been nominated for the Great Thread Badge for their work on this thread. I agree. It significantly advances our understanding of TeNo insignia and uniforms.

Congratulations !

Dave

Well Deserved !!! Congratulations Guys

I have a feeling this Thread will keep growing

GREAT THREAD ...of Continuing the Sharing of TENO Collector Information.

A Recognition of the TECHNISCHE NOTHILFE - TENO -TeNo - TN - TeNO: One of the least well understood of the TR POLIZEI Organizations.

Many thanks to BERND, for Starting the discussion of, and Continuing, the TENO Thread...
ALL Contributors to this TENO Thread have furthered (and will continue to grow the knowledge base) by their Sharing of the Many Aspects of this Multifaceted Organization.

Thanks to PaulBear for his thoughtful nomination - & thanks especially to Dave Cameron and Bill Unland, for allowing TENO to find it's rightful home, here on the POLIZEI Forum.

Now, all we need to do is to KEEP ON Sharing the TENO information. Many Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thank you all for this honor ! It is all the member's contributions to the thread that lifted the vail on this much unknown organisation !I learned a lot ! By-the -way , the set I posted at the very start , I had just gotten all the way from Australia --and very reasonable !. The dealer told me ,it came from an estate and that the former owner had brought the set with him from Germany , since he had WORN it there ! So , he had to be German and had imigrated to Australia right after the war .I asked him about the missing shoulder boards to go with the set , and he said they had not "walked in " jet . Just by chance I found the matching shoulder boards ,that I posted , about a week later on Manion's, where they had been listed as West Germsn NAVY Administrative shoulder boards . "AND NOW YOU ALL KNOW THE REST OF THIS STORY " --as that famous reporter Paul Harvy used to say ! Bernd.

TENO Men in Luftwaffe TROPICAL Uniforms:

I have photos of TENO Men in Standard Luft. Uniforms, but this is the 1st time that I've seen TENO in a full Luft. Tropical Kit.

The Photo is from a March 1, 1942 issue of "Uniformed-Markt."

(I've had the Photo for quite some while, but the owner did
not wish for it to be Posted until he was able to do so in a book. Littlejohn has published this magazine Photo in his new "Defending the Reich." So, I feel that it is now OK to Share this fascinating TENO Photo.)

OF NOTE:

1) COLLAR TAB Differences - as I have commented upon in the
Photo.
2) TENO Blue Sleeve Eagle was in use - even though there was
a TAN TeNo Sleeve Eagle available for use.
3) LUFT Pith Helmet & Sidecaps in wear.
4) Mirrored Tabs - customary for TENO, serving outside of
the home Reich.
5) Small Holster - for smaller pistol, customary for
Secondary Units.
6) Lack of TENO Buttons on the Uniforms (to my eye at 300X)

TENO Men in Luftwaffe TROPICAL Uniforms:
Txs, Dave/dblmed

To missing TeNo buttons:
I know TeNo men served as auxiliaries in Luftwaffe were generally issued with standard LW uniforms, with only TeNO insignia added. That maybe the reason of missing Teno buttons. The second reason could be (I never has TeNO button in my hands) these buttons cannot be attached so easy with splinters as standard WH-buttons.
What I really would know - were these tropical LW-tunic issued for auxiliary organizations without breast eagle (they were apllied in factories, as You for sure know) or were these eagles removed from these tunics (is a little difficult work, especially that these were usually applied by machine zig-zag stitching over breast pocket flap)...

To collar tab (narrow insignia). From photo seems to me it is not standard TeNo Laurel Leaf but but another one (SA?, SS?, Freikorps?). Pitty the photo isn't better!

Hi Jiri.... Thanks for your Assessment of various aspects of the Photo.

I've attached TENO Buttons of several sizes so that
you can see how they were constructed.(Seems to be the
standard type of TR Buttons manufacture?)

Yes, on other Photos of TENO Men in Luft Service, I have seen 'Luft' type buttons in use.

Narrow Collar Tab - Yes, it seems to be an Anomaly to me as well. Have not seen another one like it. So, I guess the Quartermaster Supply who was issuing Collar Tabs may have used whatever size / shape Laurel Leaf which they had in their supply. Txs, Dave/dblmed

I have turned up a serial numbered TeNo lapel (I think) pin and posted it here:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/800097573/...700091225#7700091225

Any thoughts welcome.

Dave

TENO Member's Pin... Dave Hohaus

Dave.... to the best of my understanding, there were a least 2 types of these TENO Membership pins.

Don Scowen notes that the 1st type was of a 'crackled red' which was finished smooth. (I defer to Don, as I have no independent TR Period source - Yet.)

The 2nd type, which we most often see, is the all smooth type, as is your nice TeNo Pin.

Yes, TENO Membership (or ID Numbers) were stamped on the reverse. Here is where it gets a bit muddled... The 1919-1923 TeNo Honor Badges were also Numbered.... but what Number? Littlejohn's "Defending the Reich has several pages ... showing that the Honor Pin Number was NOT the TeNo ID Number! (So, another TR Collector's Myth was shattered - & with TR Period Reference.)

Your TeNo Pin is a Nice one - a Keeper! Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO Member's Pin... Dave Hohaus

FRONT SIDE............

TENO Membership Pin - Type 1

I found this TeNo Type 1 (Crackled Background of the Red) in my Images Archive. (Courtesy of Detlev) ........ Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave I am sure you will appreciate this one, here is a very rare TeNo General of Wien document that a friend of mine in Austria owns

Thanks Gary, THAT is one Phenomenal Document for sure!

Written on the "Chef der TN" Stationary from the TeNo Headquarters in Berlin-Steglitz - to the Landesfuhrer der TN / Police Generalmajor JUNECKE in Vienna! Have never seen anything like it!

I'll have to see 'if' I can find information on the Sender or the Recipient.

VERY SPECIAL ! ! ...........................Txs, Dave / dblmed

Dave here is another one for your delight

OH MY! Gary....... These Incredible Letters just keep getting
Better & Better (i.e. Rarer & Rarer!!)

Hopefully BERND will kindly do a Translation of them, so that those
of us who are 'Language Impaired' can Enjoy! Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO Lapel Pins / Membership Pins.......

There is an Informative Thread going on now at:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/800097573/m/9790061225

Very Interesting. Txs, Dave/dblmed

TeNo DIENSTBUCH - 1

Looks like these Rare TeNo Documents are coming out of the woodwork!!! And that's great for us to Study and Learn from them.

MIKE PETERS has kindly allowed me to Post his TeNo DIENSTBUCH Dave/dblmed

TeNo DIENSTBUCH-1

TeNo DIENSTBUCH-2

TeNo DIENSTBUCH-3

TeNo DIENSTBUCH-4

TeNo DIENSTBUCH-5

TeNo DIENSTBUCH-6

Txs to MIKE PETERS .....Your Treasure Trove of a 'Complete Set' of TeNo ID Books - from Inception to the End of the War - contains so MUCH Information. It is hard to know where to TRY to Start, in learning from each of them!
(Then GARY Pounds us with Ultra-Rare Chef der TeNo & Reichsfuhrer SS Letters! That is what a Learning Forum is ALL About!)

Your TN DIENSTBUCH, with entries from 1942-45 is a Good Place to Start. I'm not a TeNo Scholar, by any means, but I am a TN Afficianado, in that I really enjoy & appreciate the TN & I wish to learn more and more!

The TeNo Organizational breakdown (from Largest to Smaller) of:
Landesgruppen
Bezirkgruppen
Ortsgruppen

is difficult enough to get a handle on, for me!

My "Quest" is to be Able to ID the meaning of the Roman Numerals / Arabic Numbers - on the TeNo Collar Tabs - & I'm getting closer, step by step - with lots of kind help & input.

This TN DIENSTBUCH is a Really Interesting one.
The TN Mann would have worn a Right Facing TN Tab of XVII / 10.

He was a member of the Very Large Landesgruppe XVII, based in Vienna, Austria.

He was then in the Ortsgruppe XVII / 10 - based in the Town of SCHMELZ / SCHMELD (?)

So, for gruppe XVII we learned that 10 = SCHMELZ / SCHMELD (?) & that's good news.

Also, he was assigned to one of the 4 Major (out of 7 total) TN Dienste (Service Branches).

He was in the Bereitschafsdienst II. of TN-Abteilung (group) 172 - and maybe someone who speaks German can find its assignment / sub-location from the document entries? Hope so.

He would have worn the "Circle BD" Patch on his Left Lower Sleeve - as a member of the TN-BD, the "Readiness Service." We saw the 7 "Circle Rautes" in an Earlier Posting.

Fascinating Documents & Thanks to MIKE for Sharing them with us!!!
Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave another one for your study

Gary ... Another Amazing JUNECKE Letter.... Dave/dblmed

TeNo Mann with Uniform + TeNo Greatcoat

I just got this interesting TeNo Photo in. He's a rather Jaunty / ****y
looking fellow - as he "Strikes a Pose" for the Photo..

It shows nicely the Double TeNo Collar Tabs on BOTH the Uniform and
on his TeNo Greatcoat.

TeNo 'Logo' Buttons are in evidence on both.

NOW, for the Visor. The Laurel Wreath and ****arde are OK -
BUT..... the Visor Eagle doesn't LOOK like a TeNo Eagle - to me.

I enlarged the Photo & the Swastica Apparatus is Rounded - and
is Not the Canted Square / Rhomboid of TeNo.

Do you suppose they Kitted his Visor out - with the Wrong Eagle? Dave/dblmed

Hi all here is my new aquasition, I am surprized all you guys missed this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item...=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=006

Didn't miss it just didn't like it

Hanswurst why? because the pictures are no good, or because the lining is missing? It is exactly like my other raincape in impregnated material, with the deep pocket slashes. It dont stand to reason to make a cape that would cost more to make now than to buy a used one, and where would you get all that original material from to make one, certainly not from a greatcoat, too many joins.

One other question, What police force before or after the war used black piping?

Reminds me of a swiss tunic material, they also loved capes and big into the black piping.. It might just be the way the photo is, I would like to see a photo you take when you get it. just my opinion. joe

Just wanted to add this new stickpin. unfortunately it's not numbered but it's in good condition and the price was right.

Reverse.

Also this photo. the only thing identifing him as TeNo is the overseas hat. the date on the back says 1939.

Head shot.

Here's the writing on the back.I have know idea what it says. Anyone able to read it?

RAYMOND a very nice TeNo Membership Pin!

There is a very good discussion of these found here at:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/800097573/m/9790061225

I did a little 'study' of what appears to be two types / variants of the TeNo Enamel Lapel pin. Txs, Dave/dblmed

RAYMOND .....Your Photo of the TN Mann is photographed with him wearing the Blue Drillich / Working 'Uniform,' if I am not mistaken. The TeNo Men wore the more standardly seen off-white working uniform (and the Rare Green one shown early on in this thread). My understanding is that the TeNo 'progressed' to the Blue Working 'Uniform' as the war continued.

I got very lucky and recently acquired just such a BLUE TeNo Working Uniform, as your Photo shows. The Dealer describes it as follows.

"...German WWII TeNo (Technische Nothilfe) HBT (herring bone twill) unissued work uniform. Consists of jacket and pants. HBT material is a dark blue color, buttons are pressed paper. Inside size and manufacturer tags and also paper manufacturer tags all present on both pieces. Jacket has 2 breast pockets and pants have hip pockets and right thigh utility pocket. Gorgeous textbook "Technische Nothilfe" cufftitle in light gray on black, factory applied to left sleeve. Size is large, German 52, about a 42 US. Pants are size 36" waist (adjustable) and 29" length from crotch to bottom hem. They have a belt with roller buckle adjuster in them for a better fit. Both pieces are flawless and mint. Textbook Teno Blue work uniform." Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave, That is a good thread on the pins. That drill uniform is fantastic. I would have been great if the photo I have showed the cufftitle.

TeNo Vehicle Banner

Yes, Raymond, the finding of TR Period Photos is one of the Keys to understanding so many of the 'Mystery' aspects of the Technische Nothilfe.

TeNo Flags, Banners and Similar Type Items .....RARELY Show up for Sale, or are even available to be seen!

This special Vehicle Banner was recently for sale on Bill Shea's site!

CONGRATS! to the new owner! Txs, Dave/dblmed

TENO Banner # 1 Txs, Dave/dblmed

TeNo Vehicle Banner

CONGRATS! to the new owner!

TeNo Banner # 2 ............Txs, Dave/dblmed

TeNo Vehicle Banner

CONGRATS! to the new owner!

TeNo Banner # 3 ……..Txs, Dave/dblmed

TeNo Vehicle Banner

CONGRATS! to the new owner!

This Super Vehicle Banner has to really rank right up there at the top - in terms of TeNo Rarity in TR Collections.

Great Details!!!!!!!!!

TeNo Banner # 4 ……….Txs, Dave/dblmed

EARLY TENO ARMBAND – shown in Dobrich Post Card

This Post Card by the noted artist, Dobrich Steglitz, shows the Pre-1933 TeNo Volunteers at work keeping the Eisenbahn / Railroad running.

The Soldier’s Uniform, Stalheim, long GEW Mauser, as well as the Pre-1933 Caps on the TN Mann kneeling & the TN Mann on top of the Locomotive ‘cow catcher’ – also date this Post Card to the Pre-1933 era, IMO. (Also the Image on the Card goes from ‘edge to edge’ – which is the style used by Dobrich in printing his ‘earlier’ Cards. Later Cards had a ‘white’ border.)

The caption: "Technischer Dienst beim Eisenbahn – Einsatz" – is a precursor to the TeNo Branch Distinction of the TD Arm Raute ‘Circle’ which the TeNo will later adopt.

Of Special Interest to TeNo Collectors is the unusual Early TeNo Armband which is shown on their Left Sleeve. It is a simple "TN" surrounded by 16 Cogs, in a symmetrical manner. (This is very similar to the TeNo Emblem which will be used by the TR Dutch TeNo, the Technische Noodhulp – page 513, Littlejohn’s "Defending the Reich.")

There are probably Photos of this TeNo Armband in use as well, which have not yet been found to be Posted …..Txs, Dave/dblmed

EARLY TENO ARMBAND – Pre 1933

I acquired this Early TeNo Armband in Germany, and it matches up with the above Dobrich Steglitz illustrated one.

It is of white Cotton and measures 5" by 8" & is sewn shut on the Reverse Side. No maker’s markings, only an ‘Early’ snap pin attached! …..Txs, Dave/dblmed

I located this nice TR Period MERKBUCH fur NOTHELFER, which is a 32 page small ‘Pocket’ booklet (4" X 5 3/4" size) and seems to be much like the "Soldier’s Friend" booklets of the HEER and LUFT.

There are sections on the history of the Technische Nothilfe; what is expected of a TN-Mann, etc.; Tables of Units of Weight & Measurements… and a TN Rank Chart, which is most interesting. The Date of Publication is not shown, but there is a reference to 10.11.1940, so we know the approximate dating. The Publisher is Verlag: Fritz Otto Kohler, Berlin. Druck: Ernst Segnitz, Berlin.

Shown as Folded Open – Front & Rear Covers ….Txs, Dave / dblmed

MERKBUCH fur NOTHELFER with TeNo Rank Chart - 1940-1943

The Date of Publication is not shown, but there is a reference to 10.11.1940, so we know the approximate dating.

The shown TeNo Ranks match up with the April, 1940 – May 19, 1943 Known Ranks. Also refer to "Defending the Reich" page 499, et al.

Shown as Folded Open – Pages 16 & 17 ….Txs, Dave / dblmed

Wow! More excellent Teno items.
The unissued blue work tunic is really great.
Thanks for sharing these Dave!
Doug

I just got in 2 of the TeNo Sleeve 'Rating' Circles for:

Saniter = Medical
TD = Technicher Dienst

& one of the Green Sleeve Eagles. .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

FRONT

TeNo Sleeve 'Rating' Circles for:

Saniter = Medical
TD = Technicher Dienst

& Green Sleeve Eagles. .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

REVERSE

TeNo General's Visor Cap Chin Chord.

Description from the Dealer:

"...This extremely rare 6mm General's level chin chord is constructed from 4 triple twist chords...3 of which are twisted from thick 100% cotton threads wrapped with a tarnished gold aluminum wire, while the 4th features 2 gold wrapped threads and a 3rd wrapped with a darker bronze aluminum wire with 3 single strands of gold wire as an accent. The end knots and slides are woven with 3 strands of gold wrapped thread and one in bronze adding definition to the weave. The slides are lined and with zinc reinforcing plates which is correct for the WWII time period, as are cork..."

Now, Only to find the Visor! Txs, Dave/dblmed

nice TENO MAN photo I just acquired

Paul, great photo. Nice and clear,you can even see he didn't get to the dentist to often. Thanks for adding it to the thread.

ya I think he had jungle breath there is some writting on the reverse should I post ?

reverse of photo can anyone translate maybe a plea for dental floss

PAUL ..... A Real Nice Photo of a TeNo Mann, with a Great uniform to study. What I see in the Photo is:

1. TeNo Collar Tabs & Shoulder Board Combination - (Authorized for use until May 19, 1943)
2. Blank Right Tab - Noting "Unattached /or Special Assignment" - most often outside of the Greater Reich.
3. OTB - "Other Than Dark Blue" Uniform with TeNo Special Buttons & Devices. (Tells me that he is stationed - outside of the Greater Reich.)
4. He is a very young man, but of a TeNo lower Rank.
5. "Guestimated" Photo's Time Frame = 1940 - Mid 1943.

Nice Photo Addition! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

As alaways your extra imput gratefully acknowleged and much appreciated , now if I could just find an actual set of those collars hey and maybe a button. I have some real nice TENO items in my collection but these collars shoulders and buttons are very hard to obtain.
thanks again DAVE

PAUL.... I'm sending you a PM & Email to a 'Secret' Site, where this nice looking Silver TeNo Button is in hiding!

Txs, Dave/dblmed

Just got this great looking TENO-Membership stickpin in the mail .

Backside has : 'GES.GESCH.'nad what I assume is the membership number of :# '67206'.I WONDER HOW HIGH THESE NUMBERS WENT ???

A super close-up shows the great workmanship of this TENO stick-pin . I just love it !

Bernd, was the the pin that was at the SOS ?

NO, privat purchase.

There was a nice one I seen at the SOS... Anyway these are amoung the nicest of all pins, a lot of detail for such a small item... Very nice indeed...

TN Trumpet Banner –

I just got in this splendid TeNo Trumpet Banner & couldn’t wait to share it.

The construction is just superb, of a very heavy cotton material, with great needle working.

The border is made of heavy silver metallic thread & it is cold to the touch – it feels great!

The TN Banner measures 16 1/2 inches by 16 inches, excluding the metallic thread fringe.

The TN Logo is double sided & is of 14 Cogs – instead of the 15 Cog design which are usually found on TN items. (However, this design matches exactly with the one shown in Littlejohn’s book.) …. Txs, Dave/dblmed

TN Trumpet Banner –1

TN Trumpet Banner –2…. Txs, Dave/dblmed

TN Trumpet Banner – 3…. Txs, Dave/dblmed

16 COG TeNo Banner

Now for a TN comparison, here is a 16 Cog TeNo Banner, of some type ( ? Trumpet ?) posted by a friend on the MCF.

Note the Differences – from the prior Trumpet Banner:
1. 16 Cogs – instead of 14 or 15
2. Gold metallic thread border – only on 1 edge, the bottom.
3. Gold metallic basting around 2 edges
4. One sided – back side is BLACK
5. Cloth hangers (X 3) instead of metal clips

It is certainly a beauty – and maybe the Gold edging signified a special use?

I don’t think that this TN Banner was for Trumpet use. Perhaps it was for hanging from a Podium or some other use? But, it is outwardly very similar to my prior 14 Cog TN Trumpet banner. (Of interest is the 14 vs. 16 Cogs – when we usually expect to find 15 Cogs? It seems that the manufacturers of TN items may not have been as uniform as would seem to be expected?)

More for the interest and mystique of the Technische Nothilfe (!) ….Txs, Dave/dblmed

16 COG TeNo Banner

16 COG TeNo Banner

TeNo Lapel Pins are a Collector’s Paradise in their own diversity – and offer enough to drive ‘Pin’ Collectors into a frenzy.

Littlejohn lists on page 537 of his "DTR’ 5 Types of TN Lapel Pins – (but TN Pin ‘type’ Collectors recognize that there are at least 5 other known variants.)

1. 1st Model TN Membership Lapel Pin – w a Silver Colored TN w 24 Cogs & No Swastica – as Model a. with a Wide central TN.
2. 1st Model TN Membership Lapel Pin – w a Silver Colored TN w 24 Cogs & No Swastica – as Model b. with a Narrow central TN. (Unfortunately Littlejohn did NOT show the reverse sides – on page 537???. I have also seen both the Silver as solid backed & the stamped / backed styles, of each – so 2 more ‘types.’)
3. 2nd Model TN Membership Lapel Pin – w Silver Colored TN w 15 Cog Logo w Swastica – but with NO RED ENAMEL Backing - (exactly as was seen previously on Doug O’s metal visor & the TN Sample Board).
4. "Golden Badge" Lapel Pin (which Littlejohn describes as being .800 marked – but unfortunately does not show the reverse. I have not had the pleasure of seeing one of this specific type.)
5. (3rd Model) TN Membership Lapel Pin – w 15 Cogs & Swastica and Opaque Red Background - the type we usually see. (But the TN Membership Lapel Pin – also exists with a Translucent Red Background. Thus another ‘type.’)

(Note, I certainly do not fault Littlejohn, RIP, as I praise his work for the depth of TeNo, & other, Information which he brought to the Collecting Community!!! BUY that book…)

The TN "Golden Badge" – or – more commonly called the GOLD TN Lapel Pin, also exists in at least 2 other types which I will show - along with the presentation document for one of them. (I have not had the pleasure of finding one of the .800 Gold TN Pins which Littlejohn references.) I have also Not seen a hollow backed Gold Pin, but it might also exist. Authentication of these types of pins is a challenge.

I know that silver TN pins were in common use in the Weimar period and I have a stamped back one along w the TN-Mann’s 1924 Ausweis from the TN-Ortsgruppe Bremen.

The following document for the Gold pin takes us back to at 1929 for the Gold ones. (I have seen another Gold Pin Document for 1927, so they were issued in 1927 also).

This Gold Pin document - Urkunde fur awarding the "Nothilferzeichen in Gold" was issued on October 1, 1929. (so this predates the TR official onset of 1933.) The Urkunde was signed at Berlin-Steglitz, which was the site of the TN Headquarters then, and throughout the TR.

Note the fantastic artistic design of the Urkunde! In the lower left is a TN Logo with 20 Cogs! (These different number of Cogs makes one a bit dizzy). The size of the document is the presentation size of 16" X 11."

Along with this Gold Pin document came the following TN Gold Pin # 1 which was awarded along with it, and which I will post to follow. It is Not .800 marked. Hopefully one of the TeNo Collectors has one of the .800 TN Gold pins to show us! Enjoy.... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Urkunde fur awarding the "Nothilferzeichen in Gold" of October 1, 1929.

TN Gold Pins – 2 Variations. .

OH, How I wish that I could read the German text of the Urkunde!….. Txs, Dave/dblmed

TN Pin # 1 came with the Urkunde fur awarding the "Nothilferzeichen in Gold" of October 1, 1929.

Dave, excellent trumpet banners. I wonder if the tooth count on the cogwheel indicates a time frame of manufacture?
The only TeNo item I picked up was a tasty(well to the moths it was) collartab.

I figured I could always use it to study manufacturing technices or for parts.

Raymond... It was a smart move to pick up even a mothty TN Collar tab.It does show the Tab construction very well.

The 'moth munchies' shows what is wool - and what isn't for sure! Also, the TN black flecked piping is impossible to find + the TN numbers are unique & also tough to locate. So, I believe that you did well! Dave/dblmed

It has been a real experience - and great pleasure - to read through the first 166 pages of this thread on the TN!

I had no idea there was such enthusiasm to learn more about this interesting organization from what is surely an elite group of collectors and thank all those who have contributed to it.

Scrutiny of this thread comes at a crucial time for me, as I am completing the last chapter of Volume 2 in my series of books with Jack Angolia for Roger Bender on the Police, and that chapter is on the TN! I've learnt much from this Forum and hope it can help me resolve a few outstanding questions on the TN, and so improve the accuracy of what I write.

This input comes after absorbing all the late David Littlejohn put into his chapter on the TN in "Defending the Reich" (Bender, 2007). As I understand it, David in fact died before he could complete that chapter, and one of the world's great experts stepped in to complete it and did a wonderful job.

Anyway, I'll test your patience no more and just explain what I thought might be a good idea: to post questions over uniforms/insignia that have come to mind when writing this chapter.

If this is well received, I'll do more. But for now here's the first:

THE FAD CUFFBAND
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

David illustrates an orange band with black lettering "Freiw.Arb.Dienst" (credited to Phillipe Gillain).

But the tiny illustration in Knoetel's Tafel 41 ("Uniformfibel", December 1933 - reproduced on page 475 of "Defending the Reich") clearly shows the word "Freiwillige" in full, suggesting the band in fact read "Freiwillige Arbeitsdienst".

So which was worn?

Was Knoetel guilty of artistic license or inaccuracy (that would not be the first time)?

Thanks for any help on this - also if other questions would be welcome.

hpt

hpt, I wish I were able to answer your question on the cuffband but, I'm sure Dave or one of the others here will be able to. I've learned a lot from the info they posted. Also looking forward to vol 2. I refer to vol 1 quite often.

Dave, I forgot I got this tab with the other one. Damn moths .

Reverse.

I was putting away a few things last night and noticed this ****ade I had with my Political Leaders items. It dawned on me the wreath is TeNo with a Political Leaders center. All the photos I could find show the wehrmacht style of center. Do you think it's correct or someone just added it postwar? Itcame out of a motel buy a friend of a friend did back in the late 90's.

Back.

Raymond

TN Tabs themselves take a lot of searching to locate - and finding any TN Bullion Tab is remarkable. Note that Littlejohn showed only a couple of Left sided Bullion Tabs & NO Right sided TN Bullion Tabs.

Even a mothly TN Bullion Tab is a keeper in its own right!

TN Kockade - from what I have seen, and have read - I believe that the Pol. Leader center was an 'add-on' & was not original for the TN. That is one splendid Bullion Kockade for you to hand on to! ...... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dear hpt / Hugh Page Taylor ... It's wonderful that you & Jack Angolia are finishing up Vol. 2 of your "Uniforms, Organization & History of the German Police" series - & hopefully there will be a Vol. 3, and more! There is a great deal of Collector interest in the Polizei - an all new books are welcomed references.

It is very pleasing (& historically correct) for the TN to have a place (however small it may be) in your new Police book.

Collectors are only now coming to realize that the TN were 'Police' (1st as hilfspolizei)- long before the Mai 19, 1943 TN-Police formation, which many know about.(Only through historically knowledgeable writers does this information come forth.)

Regarding the FAD Cuff Title - so little is really known about the early ('30-'35) TN. This FAD Item was a '1st Knowledge' for me - so I have no Answer. (I knew that FAD preceded the RAD, and that the TN was involved in the FAD, but that was about it!) Perhaps Andreas Lindhardt's book - "TN in the Weimar Republic" can offer some insights?

This GDC TN Insignia thread, started by Bernd, has the most in depth TN Image & knowledge base of that found anywhere! (I know, as I 'seek out' any new TN data). "IF" there is a particular TN Item which you'd like to use for your new book, I feel certain that most of this thread's Posting members would be pleased to assist you.

I is only through the 'sharing' of our TR Treasures, that the Collecting Community has the ultimate benefit - & I think that is what we'd all like to see, IMHO. ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks Raymond and Dave

I feel very privileged to have been admitted to this small group of TN enthusiasts: you seem to form a sort of group all on your own, interested in a specialised subject and happy to share your knowledge.

It's a tough call to come in now after David Littlejohn's 75-page chapter on the TN in Bender's "Defending the Reich". I drafted the historical and organizational text back in 2002 but only came to "attack" the subject a few months ago, when it became clear that it would fit in well in Volume 2 of our German Police series. It has always been a pet subject of mine, perhaps because an original 1 April 1940 "Dienstkleidung der Technischen Nothilfe" wall chart looks down at me as I work.

As can be imagined, a lot of work had to be done to incorporate all "fresh" data found since 2002. David Littlejohn's was not so detailed on history and organization, but he (or our expert friend in Holland who finished the chapter after his death) did go to town on uniforms and insignia.

So stumbling upon this thread was a real breakthrough and I appreciate Dave's call to contributors to let us make this coverage as good as we can by allowing us to use their material.

Enough blurb.

The 1st question remains outstanding.

So here's the 2nd:

How accurate is the Knoetel Tafel 41 in "Uniformfibel"?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have the advantage of owning an original of this booklet and appreciate problems anyone may have if they have to rely on page 475 of "Defending the Reich".

Why are the other ranks spelled out, but not the officers?

Beauftragter der Landesleitung is an appointment, not a rank.

As are the generic Fuehrer des Dienstes.

Is Littlejohn correct in giving Landesleiter, Abteilungsleiter, stellvertretende Reichsleiter and Reichsleiter? Why did Knoetel ignore them?

So what were the officer ranks at the time Knoetel drew this plate (Fall or early winter 1933 one assumes by the December 1933 date of publication, allowing for production time).

Knoetel shows two shoulder boards for officers, but without giving their ranks. The upper one presumably came with stars.

And finally, note that Knoetel shows a large oval badge on the left upper sleeve (yet Littlejohn refers to "a TN symbol on the breast" - clearly missing from Knoetel's plate).

There's a lot more one can say about that plate, but how accurate was it?

Best wishes to all TN-enthusiasts.

hpt

Dear hpt.... Great Questions, but I am short on any definitive answers to the Knoetel questions.

I am trying to acquire copies of the TN Magazine, "Die Raeder" from 1932-33, in order to try to solve these early uniform & insignia questions. (The oldest that I have yet been able to find is from 12/1935 - so it's not old enough to help with your question though.)

Bernd O, Doug O, Ernst H, Jiri Libal, Gary9 and many of the other TN & Police Collectors may have a much better handle on this than I do.

Littlejohn describes, but does not Show, the 1st TN insignia - as being an Oval (for both the Visor & the left Sleeve)- and then quickly moves on. DougO showed us his spectacular early TN Metal Logo / Wreath on his early TN visor - that was quite an eye opener & a learning experience.

I don't know what that 'TN Oval' looks like for this early time frame - 1933 - but I'd really like to see it - as would we all! Might it have something to do with the 'breast oval' in bullion, which was posted? Perhaps, as that nice TN piece is unidentified. (RonR posted another example of it on the WAF TN Uniform thread - so it is not a '1 of' item.)

The (unknown) manufacturer's metal TN insignia board, which I posted early on, has insignia from, what I believe is, 1934 forward.I base this upon the bottom row center device, which mirrors the TN Logo which was authorized in 1934 - and which is the same as the center of DougO's metal Kockade. (The date of the board is just my opinion, as it is not dated.)

More Technische Nothilfe mysteries - which hopefully you will solve for us! ...Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks for your input Dave; your help is proving invaluable to doing justice to the TN in my next book on the Police with Jack for Roger.

Although we're not making much progress in solving many problems with this thread, I'll plough on and here's the next question.

TN Badge for graduates of the TN National Schools
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

There were two schools, one at Belzig the other Dresden.

The Dresden school is not mentioned in the 1 April 1940 dress reegulations, so one may assume it had been shut down by then. Can anyone give the dates the two schools were opened, and precisely when that in Dresden was closed?

But when was the Tyr-rune badge for having attended a course at these schools introduced? Littlejohn in "Defending the Reich" (page 511)says from April 1933 members of the schools' staff wore the badge with a crimson edging. But sadly David gave no source for this.

I'd certainly have said it was introduced prior to 1936, as the "Organisationsbuecher" for that year show the same devices for the SA, etc. and I'd guess that introduction was at about the same time for the various organizations (Party and otherwise) that adopted the "arrow" as their symbol for having attended a course.

hpt

Pressing on with TN questions and, further to my post of the 23rd of this month, let's concentrate on an interesting detail in Knoetel's "Tafel 41" of December 1933, the "Freiwillige Arbeitsdienst" (or, according to Littlejohn, "Freiw.Arb.Dienst") cuffband.

As the TN's involvement with the FAD ended on 6 January 1933, that is before Hitler came to power, how is it that the "FAD" cuffband was shown being worn during the 3rd Reich?! I see two possibilities: a) that Knoetel illustrated a uniform detail introduced in 1932 but which ceased to be worn in early January 1933, or b) that cuffband was worn as a commemorative.

Can anyone out there solve this Problem? I think a) is more likely and certainly places the accuracy of Knoetel's illustrations in doubt.

hpt

Hpt have you tried posting these unanswered questions at this web site, they are pretty knowledgable here

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=38&sid=c0d...8da85656017b8e87d3e0

Thanks for the tip Gary, I may try that (but am so short of time at the moment as I am now fully immersed in the TN chapter of my next book!)

I thought this Forum was the best suited, as these are all uniform and insignia questions.

Sadly so far we have not made much progress.


hpt

Further to my post of 29 March, I may have done the artist Knoettel an injustice over the "Freiwillige Arbeitsdienst" cuffband. Although it was ordered that the TN should stop administering the FAD in early January 1933, given the size and complexity of their involvement that took time and official records show that they remained involved into 1934.

So that cuffband could, presumably and with all due caveats, have been worn after Hitler came to power at the end of January 1933.

hpt

In January 1942 the OKH authorized a commemorative badge to be worn on Army uniform by those who had joined their technical units from the TN.

Word has it that this badge was withdrawn from wear two years later, in January 1944.

I am looking for chapter and verse on that withdrawal order: precise date, reference, etc.

Incidentally, I know of four (4) variations of that badge. Were there more? Was there a Luftwaffe version I wonder? The mind boggles.

I aim to illustrate all 4 of the known Heer patterns in our chapter on the TN, but would really like to resolve the issue of the order withdrawing the badge from wear.

Thanks.

hpt

Dear HPT...

TN-to-Heer 1942-1944 Patch - Wow... More great information! I was aware of only 3 cloth badges / patches:

a) Green w Aluminum Thread - ? for prior TN Officers
b) Green w Gray Thread - ? for prior TN NCO's & Men
c) Green & Brown Embroidered - as in the H. Kelly patch in Littlejohn

d) 4th Type - will be a surprise, in you Book!

Also, in the LJ Book - the photo shows the Color incorrectly as almost Black (to my eye) when it is correctly a dark green. (Was probably just poor lighting for the Photo.)

In my collecting experience - the TN-to-Heer '42-44 style of Green w Aluminum Thread, seems to be the most frequently found. (I better read back through the thread to see if a Gray Thread one in here.)

1944 Date - Unfortunately, I am not aware of where it is found in the TR period regulations.

We're all looking forward to your new book!!

Txs, Dave/dblmed

I'm glad to be stimulating activity in the grey cells... and hope to get some of the outstanding questions answered before we go to press.

I'm completing my coverage of the TN and will get this off to RJB as soon as possible. This will be the final chapter in Volume 2, so publication should not be far away now.

I can understand the interest in the TN, it is a fascinating subject.

hpt

Looks like the former DDR-NVA used the TENO cog wheel in this skill/trade sleeve patch .

I just got this nice looking TENO armband in the mail .

Close-up of the center bevo weave .

...and it's interesting backside weave .

..and under the seam overlap you can see the 'ges.gesch. H & P ' . Does anybody know what 'H & P ' stands for ???. Thanks , Bernd .

Bernd - Another Great TN Item for your Super Collection! These Red & Black Logo on the White Cloth (? Cotton) TN Armbindes are certainly the most attractive - IMO.

If you 'peek' under the sewn line - I 'believe' that you will find that the maker is "H & F" - But, I do Not know what company that represents. (It seems that this model TN Armbinde was either made by H & F, or is unmarked. I've seen about 20 of these in person, and from reviewing Net Photos - these are the only 2 'maker variations' which I have yet seen.(IF it does turn out to be "H & P" - then you have a very Rare maker!

The Dark Green TN Armband (both with - & without - the sewn on Blue Cap Eagle Triangle Patch) seems to almost always be maker marked by "B & W" or is Un-Marked. Again, I do not know what it means or who was the manufacturer.

Hopefully - some of the other guys on the Forum may know who is:H & F ...&...B & W

That would be more super TN information!(Or maybe, we will find this out in the Technische Nothilfe Chapter in the, soon to be published, Angolia & Taylor Book, Vol. 2 of their "Police" Series? I have great expectations of the book.

.....Txs, Dave / dblmed

Sorry to disappoint, Dave, but you won't find the ID of these two manufacturers in my next book!

I have checked all issues of "Die Raeder" available to me (which carry ads. for uniform/insignia manufacturters), but there is nothing to explain who H & F and B & W were.

Perhaps the RZM journals hold the key and I'll have a look.

I've caught the "TN bug" thanks to this thread (and especially Dave's input) and hope to have done justice to what is a fascinating subject in my coverage in Volume 2 of my book with Jack for Roger.

Thanks to all who have been so helpful and generous - with their time, knowledge and wonderful collections.

hpt

I'm trying to build up a list for publication of the locations of TN.-Ortsgruppen as indicated on the collar patch: that is the town that corresponds to the Roman/Arabic combination, such as in Robert Noss's post of 25 June last year:

VII/2 = Starnberg

I'm sure collectors and anyone interested in the TN would welcome such a reference.

The best sources appear to be rubber stamps on documents and armbands, correspondence (envelopes, letters and postcards) and ID documents.

Thanks for any help in what I see as a worthy and worthwhile cause!

hpt

This will be a huge undertaking but one that would be greatly appreciated. I will make a note of any info I come across and post it here.

Yes, it would be a huge project.

Not only were there some 1,800 Ortsgruppen by the end of WW2, but also changes in the life of the TN (1919 - 1945), such as in the Landesbezirke/Landesleitungen/Landesgruppen/Bereiche, means that Ortsgruppen numbers also changed over the years and so a proper study would involve a timeline.

But such a list would be a great asset to TN collectors: the ability to identify the location of a uniform from the numerals on the collar patch! That would be neat.

Something of a pipe dream, I fear, but I'll do what I can and naturally share it with this Forum.

hpt

Yes, it would be a huge project.

Not only were there some 1,800 TN.-Ortsgruppen by 1942, but changes in the organization of the TN during its life (1919 - 1945) would require a meaningful study to be based on a timeline. There were changes in the Landesbezirke/ Landesleitungen/Landesgruppen/Bereiche and as their numerals were linked with those of the Ortgruppen, these changes would also have to be taken into account.

But such a list would be helpful to TN collectors, who would be able to look up a uniform, badge or document and find the geographical origin.

I fear this is a pipe dream, but I'll do my best and naturally share my findings with this Forum.

hpt

Dear hpt, that sounds terrific!

It is difficult enough to even find the TN Collar Tabs. Then not knowing for sure what the Roman & Arabic numerals really stand for - is also a bit frustrating.

Sounds like we need to ID 'where' we find the Landes/Orts Number information (Armband Stamping, ID Books, Photos, etc.) - as well as the time frame, if known?

Even your 'short' list is better than the NO List, which is what TN/TeNo Collectors currently face.

Plus a short list - will only grow longer & that is a nice plus in the TN knowledge base.

When do you 'guesstimate' that Vol. 2 of the German "Police Series" will be on the bookshelves?

Keep up the research and great work!
Txs, Dave/dblmed

Roger Bender is finishing off Volume 2 in our "The German Police" series now, and I have only to let him have some appendices, the new bibliography and list of acknowldements - which I'll send in a few days.

Thanks to Dave and other supporters of this Forum the TN chapter will be HUGE. But we also cover uniforms and insignia, the Schupo, Verkehrspolizei, Gemeindepolizei and Gendarmerie in this one.

I'd estimate publication this summer, but will check with Roger and keep the Forum posted. We really appreciate the interest and support!

Thanks for your interest.

hpt

At a small gun show this last weekend in Belleville, IL., I found this Teno Officer's sidecap bevo eagle . It has bright silver thread.

,,and a close-up .

..and closer.

..and a shot of the backside . The photos do NOT show how bright actual the silver thread still is .

Bernd.... Nice TeNo / TN Cap Eagle...

They really are artistic up close.
Unlike the Blue Sleeve Eagle, it seems like there is only one (blue) variation - but there are more to find!

Supposedly, there is a 'golden' thread Dark Blue TN cap eagle also. I saw one on a German site a few months back (on a TN Side Cap) - but the Eagle condition was so bad, that I passed on it. (I may regret it, if another one doesn't turn up!)

I'm very excited about the Hugh Taylor / J. Angolia TeNo Chapter in their "Police Vol. 2" as some 'rare' birds are supposed to be shown. Hopefully, we'll see a lot of 'New' TN Items (as we did with Littlejohn's "Defending the Reich.) Txs, Dave/dblmed

I'm delighted to say that our coverage of the TN in Volume 2 of "The German Police" will now have an appendix with over 500 TN.-Ortsgruppen identified, with their respective parent TN.-Landesgruppen and location.

This is a great step forward and includes ALL Ortsgruppen at 1 May 1934.

Such lists obviously exist for other dates, but have so far eluded us.

I'd also like to be able to fill in the respective TN.-Bezirksgruppen (the intermediate level of command between 8 of the 15 LG and their constituent OG), but that will have to wait for Volume 3.

If anyone can contribute Ortsgruppen IDs (i.e. with parent LG and town/village name) I'd be most grateful and this will of course be shared with all.

hpt

New TeNo photo in

Gary, That is definitely a 'WOW' TeNo / TN Photo!

This is the type of photo which REALLY Shows us a lot! Close Up photos of the late war TN-Police uniforms & insignia are definitely hard to find.

What I see in your wonderful photo (IMO) is:

1) The date 'range' is after the May 19, 1943 3rd TN "Rank/Boards' Change. (So, it's late war as it took MANY Months for the TN to get this style to all of the TN / TN-Police units spread out all over Europe. I personally 'believe' that some units didn't receive these Tab/Boards until late 1943, and 'possibly' not until early 1944, IMO only.)
2) The 'SS Style' collar tabs (dual matching) for the TN are shown.
3) The beautiful (and so 'Rare' to find) TeNo magic "Black Eagle" EM/NCO patch is well shown - and it's close up!
4) The Shoulder Boards show up nicely. I want to 'belive' that I can see that there is a coloration difference between what appears to be 'Black' Centers on them (as Compared to the Collar Tabs). I am definitely leaning toward a conclusion that a Brown SB centering color was used. But, for a definite answer - we'll need to await the Vol. 2 Police Book.
5) The uniform appears to conform with the Police / TN-Police Tunic of that '19 43' era. Standard painted buttons - no TeNo logo buttons. Pleated breast pockets with the scallop 'V' of the pocket flap @ the center, for the button hole.
6) Cap is the M-43 type (with 2 buttons) & the Polizei Eagle cap patch has the wreath just 'peeking' out above the flap.

Gary, it is a WOW photo! Thanks for sharing. Dave/dblmed

A very interesting photo indeed of an Oberwachtmeister der TN. Must have been taken after 1 June 1943 in accordance with RdErl. d. RFSSuChdDtPol. im RMdI vom 19. Mai 1943 - O-Kdo g 4 (P 1a) 115/42.

It looks to me like this old fellow (who looks a bit too fragile to have been of much use in performing the TN's demanding duties) knocked up those collar patches himself as they are too long and narrow and the pips are not positioned in the centre of the patches as they should have been.

The shoulder boards look OK, but it is hard to tell whether the interior braids are brown as they should have been and the underlay black.

There were indeed delays in distributing the June 1943 insignia and some TN personnel had still not received them by the end of the war. Odd in this case that the sleeve eagle and shoulder boards appear to have been regulation, but not the collar patches. Part of the chaos and confusion in the latter stages of the war.

Gary: can you put a place and a date to this photo? A really great document and thanks for sharing it with us.

hpt

Hi Hugh, RE: Gary's super late war Foto:

Just some thoughts, and also IMO:

"It looks to me like this old fellow (who looks a bit too fragile to have been of much use in performing the TN's demanding duties)" - Yet, it's True - BUT the TN Men were Technical Specialists. So, this fellow 'may' have possessed a special set of skills, which were not diminished by his age.

"(he) knocked up those collar patches himself as they are too long and narrow and the pips are not positioned in the centre of the patches as they should have been." Also True, BUT even the SS were known to have 'field made' some of their Collar Tabs (Patches)- so, the same could reasonably have taken place with the TN.

My 'belief' is that there was a logistical nightmare, with regards to supplying the 'required' June 1, 1943 TN insignia. As a result of this, a number of the TN personnel were required (or just did it) to make whatever changes that they could (and based upon whatever materials were locally available.)

I wouldn't even be surprised to see Fotos of 1940-42 TN Insignia being worn - without the COGS, in an attempt to have the Collar Tabs (Patches) appear to be more 'SS Like.' Just my Opinion. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave

What you say is true.

Your comment about the collar patches reminds me of Latvian and Estonian Waffen-SS veterans I interviewed many moons ago who had both cut collar patch insignia out of sardine cans. Anything was possible in those days.

I'd still be interested to know if Gary can give us a date for that interesting photo of his.

Best wishes to all TN enthusiasts - I'm off to the Milan "Militalia" fair next week and will be keeping my eyes open for Polizei and especially TN items.

hpt

Unfortunately, no date and no name.

Gray, great photo.
Here are a few pixs of the two overseas hats I picked up recently. First is a blue one similar to the other I posted.

Side view.

Interior. It's marked with the TeNo emblem but it's faint.

# tag. Would have been nice if it were named.

Fieldgray version.

Left side.

Right side.

Interior, no markings.

Insignia. While the hat shows lots of wear, it's the first one I've come accross.

Raymond,

Congrats, some Great finds! They will look nice with the others that you have. The TN blue is neat and classic, but that Gray one is a much harder to find piece. Plus, it's got the "I've been there" worn look to it.

I read somewhere that the front of these sidecaps often got worn down by the guys wearing their helmets over the caps. The wear always seems to be the most, right in the front middle (where all of the good stuff is!)[Plus, if it didn't bother the owner, that says a lot.]

It also seems that the TN Blue and Gray came in models with 'side-hooks' or without them. (No idea why.) So, there is always more fun TeNo / TN items to look for. Txs, Dave/dblmed

Thanks Dave. I've heard the same thing about the wear pattern and it makes sence to me. I've seen period photos of guys wearing there helmet over there hat, so as to keep warm, and the wear pattern matches up to this.
I like to see the hats with the side-hooks. I wonder if it there is a written regulation on these?

Just'found' this TENO- MEISTER rank shoulder board in my 'stuff'. Note the brown color center cords .

...and a close-up .

Backside shot of the tounge and button hole shows the brown color even better .

Dear Bernd... "Happy TeNo 1 Year Anniversary"

I wish to Congratulate You as this is just past the 1 Year "Anniversary" of your original Post, in starting this wonderfully Educational "TeNo / TN" Thread.

We've seen that there are a number of TeNo / TN-Police Collectors each of whom have added their collectibles, or valuable information, to the thread.

NO WHERE Else on the NET (or in Books) , can there be found Anything, even close to the Wealth of information, images & combined knowledge, which resides in this thread!(I believe that in 8.5 X 11 pages that there are now over 200 pages! I hope that this thread has a 'backup' capability...) ... Thank You Bernd .... Dave/dblmed

"Almost" Meister Shoulder Boards, IMO

Bernd, your Boards are so, so very close to those next to impossible to find TeNo / TN 1943-1945 Shoulder Boards. (We all know how hard it is to find ANY of this 3rd Series of TN Ranks!!)

IMO, your Boards conform in every way to the TN 1943-1945 Shoulder Boards, with the exception of the number of rows of Brown Cording. From what I have read in the 1945 Taschenbuch der TN, and in the 12, 1943 "Die Raeder" - it is my conclusion that the TN Meister Boards should have two (2) rows of the double brown corded Material, instead of one (1) row.

Your Board is so close that it HURTS, to look and see that there are not the 2 Rows present!

I am hopeful that Hugh Taylor will cover these 'fine detail' aspects in the "Vol. 2 - Police" book which is being published. ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

quote:

Originally posted by Gary8:
New TeNo photo in

Gary, what a great and rare picture! Congrats on the TN score.

HERE is a new pin I just aquired to bad it has been repaired on back but you takes what you can get with this stuff

Paulbear... Your TeNo / TN Lapel Pin - Stick Pin is a very nice one, repaired back, or not. (Show us your Back Photos also?)

The vast majority of examples of this model TN pin have a hollow back, along the rim & cogs. (It is very unusual to see one of these with a solid back. (When you do see a solid backed 'silver looking' early TN Pin, check closely for any remaining specks of a gold wash. It is most likely a 'faded / tarnished' gold TN Pin,IMO, which has reverted to the base metal) I have yet to see one which has any type of reverse markings, but that would be a nice find.

This 'early model' TN Lapel Pin goes all the way back to the founding days of the TN, and continued to be used until 1933, and probably even a bit longer. (The earliest that I have positively documented is a TN Silver Lapel Pin of this model which came with a 1923 TN ID - but, who is to say that they weren't around in 1919-1920?)

This 'early model'TN Lapel Pin also can be found with a 'narrow' of a 'wide' Hammer Head (and often with the narrow/wide 'N' as well.) They are listed in the Heering-Huesken's "Handbuch der Abzeichen deutscher Organisationen 1871-1945", page 161 as # 9711a (narrow) and # 9711b (wide.)

Paul, yours is the # 9711a (narrow) and has the desirable twisted ridge on the shaft of the pin. Since they were used from 1919 (?) until 1933, or later, it is my belief that there were a number of manufacturers, thus we find variations.

BTW...Charley S still has that TN collar tab that you've been looking for! Txs, Dave/dblmed

Hello,

Regarding the shoulder board above, I'm sorry....I don't see the difference. Yes, double rows of brown cord on the lower ranks, but how exactly would you have double rows of brown cord woven into the "meister" pattern. I have only seen police boards with the pattern shown in Bernd's board.

The board and your illustration look identical to me. What am I missing?

Regards,
W.Unland

Thanks Bill, ...You are absolutely correct and I thank you for pointing it out to me! These TN/Police Boards are definitely a fun and a challenging subject! We've (I personally) come from feeling that the now identified Brown Cording was previously thought to be Black by many. Research (in reading the TN printed literature) has shown that to be incorrect.

For Bernd's SUPER TN/POL. Meister Board, this is the 1st one which I have seen on any Forum, and what a beauty. From looking at the 'books' in B & W, I had the mis-impression that the cording was 2 Brown "figure's of 8" - superimposed upon one another, like a vertical DNA strand. (And, I had no idea how that weave could be achieved!)

I see now, with your guidance Bill, & with Bernd's actual board, that the dark intersections, are overlays from the Black Chevrons in the light Silver? cording, which just have coincidentally lined up in the small drawings. I looked but "I did not see" the special details!

Please feel free to delete my prior Post, so that it does not confuse anyone on this subject. ...Txs, Dave'dblmed

Not sure if I posted this one before, although it appears like an example for Hauptwachtmeister d. TN.

Reverse with black backing

another view

and another view

Dave,

Seems you have just about everything in that pile of boards you have. Nice board. I would have never guessed what it was.

Bill U

interesting pic NCO with dagger supervising some of the gang named on reverse.

nco

last

Paul ...You got a Really Nice TeNo Photo! The TN guys are hard at work.

It's not very often that a photo showing the TN Hewer / Hauer in wear is found. Congrats! ..... Dave/dblmed

thanks,I have just bought a numbered teno pin and have been informed there will be some pics and documents coming with it unknown type or quantity he says it will be a surprise but still can't find a damm collar

reverse

I've been without internet access for a while, so I missed great TeNO-Meister shoulder board posted...
It is great and VERY RARE item - thanks for posting!
In connection with it I realize the "V" must be black (after RdErl. d. RFSSuChdDtPol. im RMdI vom 19. Mai 1943 - O-Kdo g 4 (P 1a) 115/42, MBliV 1943, Nr. 21, Spalte 851) and I found an error in my web page Schulterstueck-Fibel,
http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/dr/uf/sch_pol-wchtm.html
where I mistakenly described "V" as dark brown...
And immediately there is an additional question:
Who wore shoulder boards with black underlay, brown inside chords and brown "V" on silver chords? (These shoulder boards actually existed - Dave's last post in this thread...)
An second question: What is the difference between RAD Unterfeldmeister shoulder boards (general branch) and Teno Wchtm. shoulder boards?
Velvet underlay? Or?

Our hobby is really great - after 45 yrs of collecting and interest in German militaria (especially in Wchtm. -like shoulder boards)
I can find new and unrecognized things!

quote:

And immediately there is an additional question:
Who wore shoulder boards with black underlay, brown inside chords and brown "V" on silver chords? (These shoulder boards actually existed - Dave's last post in this thread...)
An second question: What is the difference between RAD Unterfeldmeister shoulder boards (general branch) and Teno Wchtm. shoulder boards?
Velvet underlay? Or?

Great questions and I've often wondered if the example I posted was simply a deviation from the exact regulation since another use has not been identified or if in fact it had a totally different application. I'd certainly like to know the answer to that one!

I just got this nice looking silvered TENO lapel pin in the mail .

It measures 3/4 -inch across . Here it's backside .There is no hmk.

Good news for those interested in the TN!

The world's financial situation is grim, but worse still there have been no posts on the TN since 26 July. So I'd like to take this opportunity to advise that our next volume on the German Police is nearing completion and will do justice at last to the fantastic organization that was the TN: 250 pages of text on the history, organization and uniforms of the TN, with over 350 illustrations and appendices listing all known TN.-Ortsgruppen by their Arabic/Roman numerals (12 pages) and field and replacement elements outside the Reich (16 pages).

Achieving this degree of coverage has been possible in large part thanks to friends on this Forum to whom we extend our sincere gratitude, especially to dblmed.

hpt

TeNo / TN-Mantel - I've been looking for a TN Overcoat for quite some time & expected to find one made of wool (If I was lucky enough to find one at all!) To my pleasant surprise, this TN-Mantel is made of a heavy Navy blue / dunkelblau Cotton fabric which has been 'water proofed.' Almost as heavy as a canvas, but slightly softer and more malleable. It's consistency is more like a duck hunter's all weather coat. The internal seams are all rubberized and there is a cotton strap with clip for attaching the TN Führerdolch, which passed through the left pocket.

The Mantel has TN-Kameradeschaftführer's slip-in shoulder boards (with TN logo buttons)which is consistent with the 1940-1943 TN insignia in effect. Also present is the TN Tyr Rune Arrow noting that this officer had been through either the Belzig or Dresden TN-Reichschule. The TN triangular eagle patch is the standard metallic wire on dunkelblau model.

It is interesting that no collar tabs, or TN cuff title, were ever attached to this TN-Mantel. My belief is that since the purpose of the particular overcoat was for use in the rain, etc., that those insignia devices were omitted.

Official TN issued overcoats are distinctive in that they have 2 rows of 5 buttons each, 10 in total, and are the TN logo type (silver or OD, olive drab, in rare instances.) The TN assigned to the Heer and Luftwaffe used their overcoats, which are the 2 rows of 6 button's types (12 buttons in total). (TN in Kriegs' service did exist, but is so rare, that I have not yet even seen any uniform photos!)

All in all, I feel that it is a nice representative TN uniform item of a TN-Mantel.

Txs, Dave/dblmed

Let's see if I can make the photo a little larger, so you can actually see it! Dave/dblmed

Here is a photo of the left shoulder area of the mantel showing the TN-Kameradschaftführer's slip-in shoulder board (with TN logo button.) The shoulder board shows wear, which is nice. The top is a of matte silver material and the underside is black cloth.

The texture of the 'Cotton Duck' material of which the TN Mantel is constructed is also shown pretty well (to my surprise also). Txs, Dave/dblmed

• TN-Reichsschule Arrow & TN Eagle Sleeve Patch •

Another left shoulder photo of the TN-Reichsschule Arrow (of the same matte silver material, as the shoulder board) and the TN dunkelblau eagle triangle patch with metallic wire construction. (With only one exception, the TN NEVER used Black as an eagle color, and did not use Black as a uniform color, as is often incorrectly referenced. The very dark Navy Blue / Dunkelblau has been mistaken for Black in the past.)

You can also nicely see the slip-on aspect of the Kameradschaftführer's shoulder board above.
Txs, Dave/dblmed

Dave, that's a great find. Did you pick it up locally? Are there any marking inside? If you get a chance can you show the back and interior? Especially the hanger.
Thanks for showing your latest find. All I got TeNo related this weekend was a armband.

Backside.

Raymond, a Nice TN Armband, as it is the Bevo / Woven type. The printed ones are great also, but I prefer your type as the colors are so nice. They are often maker marked, with initials which we don't know the identity of yet. (Picking up ANY TeNo item makes it a great weekend find!)

Did you pick it up locally? The TN Mantel came from a dealer on the East coast who had bought out an old collection (I am informed) and it became available.


Are there any marking inside? None that I can find.

If you get a chance can you show the back and interior?
Especially the hanger. (I am fighting with the Kb limit, but will get up some photos.) Txs, Dave / dblmed

• TN Mantel - Reverse Left Side •

• TN Mantel - Reverse RIGHT Side •

TN Mantel Interior with Rubberized seams