I started collecting Nazi regalia in the mid 1970s. After a few years I had all sorts of stuff,,helmets, daggers/bayos, medals/badges. A few jackets, a few hats and caps, a little bit of everything.
Some of the pieces I had from the many members of my family that were in the war,,their war booty,' war souvenirs'. Some bought, some traded. Things were different back then. IF you were collecting daggers and wanted a Army,you'd get the nicest one possible with the nicest of hangers. There was no collecting by maker, by handle color etc. Same with a medal,,You'd want a iron cross, you'd get the best condition one you could afford. Not by LDO number, maker stamp etc.
Anyway most my early collection was
gone a few times, Motorcycles, women, 'substances',etc
. In the mid 80s I decide to 'specialize' in the things I really liked. 3rd reich Jewelry, Foreign Volunteer items, Holocaust, ID tags/Worker IDs.
Well between Hurricane Irene and SuperStorm Sandy I lost 99% of my collection.
Well over the years I'd pick up a weird thing here, a weird thing there. I'd toss them in a crate in my attic. And of all my stuff they of course survived the waters up there.
This stuff one of my Uncles one time called 'Tools of the Trade'.. So here they are. Hope you guys enjoy the stuff,,most old, 1920s, 40s,60s..
I have more [I store them now in a old Violin case!] so heres a small taste..
The leather covered 'billy' has a ball bearing lanyard hole!
,,the 'straight' set of knuckles are my favorite style,,the black jack a real oldie,,probably 20s [froma old buddy in AZ
.],,the stocky/stubby billy is a type of hardwood,,its like a rock yet has a split in it, hopefully not from a head!
I got about 10 knuckles made from all sorts of different materials. This one in photo I just got this past MAX and is my first real
brass ones!
Got a bunch of the old blackjacks also. They are getting real hard to find. Hey, anyone with a line on any of this type stuff give me a shout and maybe we can work something out...,Thanks , G.
Great collection, G! Yeah, I'm seeing some shawshank redemption era stuff in here, nice! I love that it's stored in a violin case... touché!
This was hand painted on the top of some sort of box lid..
Love this!
Heck yeah! Looks like something one William Cutting (aka "Bill the Butcher") might have rolling around there in the back of his shop in 5 points! If it were Daniel day lewis, I see it holding something ironic like a cutaway bible with a pistol in it !!
What a great collection, some amazing items!
As a retired policeman I have collected many old tools of the trade myself over the years. These are mostly "working" nightsticks and billy clubs. Don't forget there were also fancy daysticks in the US made in coco-bolo or other exotic woods. These mostly had tassels to distinguish rank and are still used as presentation pieces in some departments today. No longer carried by most departments they have been replaced with other more modern batons and impact weapons made of synthetic materials. When I first started we could carry leather slappers and billies but no longer as time went on.
When it quits snowing I will take a couple of pix.
Man! that belt is something!! Whats on the star?
Oh yes please,,when you have the time any tools of the trade I'd love to see them!
I love the idea of a candy filled billy club, it's ironic but also probably helped teach kids that cops aren't here to beat you up, but rather to help protect the community. Good message in 2015.
Orpo,, thanks so much for showing all this,,what a treat..
Man that tear gas one!,excellent!
In the right hands any of these can do devastating damage to someone!
They made a single hand cuff,,that also could be turned into a 2 knuckle hitter [old]. Could have grabbed one a couple years ago. Could of, would of, really should of!! The piece sound familiar to anyone? maybe have one to show?
,,,,OH man!,,,just remembered I might have a photo of one on another drive... Found it!
So this is a knuckle hitter, and some sort of thumb cuff [?]
I have a extra that I put in the for sale section forum.,,thought I'd put the photos up here before I delete them..
This one is a very well made one. Pretty sure a 1960s example.. Strong black leather stitched well, the strap securely attached..
These are way better than a black jack.. With some practice you can learn to knock someone out very quickly with little effort! Used to hit on its side,,can easily break a bone.. Back in the old days some Police had a special side pocket in their pants for this tool..
,,,,,a quickie updated photo... Got to get a bigger/better display case!
Vee have vays of making you talk!!!
ha ha you got it Mr F.!!
I have a new piece I picked up.. At the MAX of all places too! I've been wanting one of these a long time. Usually they are in such bad condition,,or will not function.. This near perfect. All the workings are fine and functions perfectly,,just missing some small bits of plaiting.
open,,,and closed [ouch!]... When closed,,with just a flick of your wrist the right way and anyone that has their wrist clamped will be on their knees!
guys,,maybe the ultimate 'tool of the trade'...
I guess after you beat the ******** out of the guy you can shoot him!
The centennial eh? Pretty intimidating - I wonder what it meant by centennial ? French Revolution? Second empire? Napoleon crowns himself / first empire?
man, here's another one..
With this thing there's no need for an enforcer to carry his knucks
and a heater..
Plus maybe this thing has no rifleing [?] so it could be a little harder to trace/match..
All kidding [?] aside,,wonder what the value is on one of these things!
Hmmm that's a good question- maybe there's a small arms guy on the forum who has a good idea- we know Rick Harrison will give you 45 cents for it lol .,. Thanks for the closer picture it's the French Revolution/ American constitution centennial- both a big deal in France...g did u pick up this piece?
I wish Mike... I am sure this is a small fortune [a few thousand].!!
Anybody home here?!?,,does anyone maybe have one of these or could tell us a accurate value?
Saw one sold on a British auction site for 895 pounds, mint in the box with original ammo.
So somewhere in the $1200. to $1500. range.. Actually, not to bad! , Thanks Vern....
Glad to help
Wow!,,Municipal Police of NY.! What would be the date on that?
Is the pistol an issue item?
Real nice nipper!
The whistles are from around the turn of the century... 19th Century that is. The S.A. French marked whistle is shown in his late 1800s catalog of police equipment.
The Colt revolver is not property marked but is probably a private purchase.
No doubt! G, do u have pics of those come-alongs u have? I think I recall u having a few and all very cool worth posting again with some history (I think many ppl don't know what they are!)
yeah! nice PCs!!..
I saw a old NYC police uniform. The pants has a 3 inch wide pocket, about 10 in long.. I asked what it was for??,,for a black jack!!
A better shot of the nippers and patent date.
ORPO.,, WOW what a treat!
That leather holder for the come a longs is a first for me..
Some really nice stuff you got there,,thanks for posting!
Good subject. Houston Coates had some choice stuff like the cuffs and other police items at the Tn. Military Show last Thanksgiving. A really nice Kripo disc.
I bought a beautiful Japanese officer sword with original wooden scabbard, covered in leather for military use from Houston at the show.
Mark
Mike,
,the tonfa wood?
,and the club a hard rubber?? What is the clubs length?
The tonfa is a monadnock p-24 s side handled baton, 24 inches in length... Made of a hard black molded plastic or rubber- about 3-3.5 lb I'd guess.., the club is a deep blue hard composite either a plastic or a rubber, with a black rubber washer- prob 4 lb or so, original leather carrying strap with it/ about 20 inches. These batons have seen real use!
Love this one- about 10 inches I'd guess... Nice old wooden tire thumper... Also posting for sale soon! Heavy, lead filled baton with original carrying strap.., prob about 3.5-4 lb at least. It's a shot caller that's for sure!!!
nice Mike!! Yeah that sure looks like it was drilled out, filled [prob with lead] and a wood plug in it...
You know I hear all the time,,'those are for fish' , 'Those are for tires'..
Tire and fish clubs usually a bit longer..
- any markings on the club or the come-a-long?
Markings? Well I'm not sure it's got something under the lacquer but I can't make it out- and like a North Star like pattern on the "pommel".., on the shaft is red and black markings maybe it was someone's name?
pretty sure the marks at the end is from the wood lathe chuck that held it..
That side peg is interesting. Does it go thru to other side?
Are the handles of the c-a-l aluminum or steel?
Yeah I couldn't get a good shot of the markings man regardless they were pretty worn.. Yep the other side has the "peg" as well- looks like same color material (wood putty?) as top and bottom,.,come a longs I will pull out and check I never really looked! Just thought they were cool and tossed them in the box lol!
wonder what the side plug is for?
The handle material will help you date them. IF aluminum they are most likely postwar.
No idea on the side plugs- maybe more weight added? It's heavy as heck. I looked at the come a longs I think it's steel or another metal- too heavy for aluminum- but maybe something else? Didn't see any clear markings but will look again!
Ahh of course! Yes will do-
had a forum member contact me out of the blue and ask if I'd be interested in a 'paperweight'!
Of course I was and we did a interesting trade for a 'Sapper Glove' and a beautiful old Aluminum knuckles:
they are a nice size and fit even my big hands!
Coming at ya!
Also,, from my collection but haven't shown until now..
These are steel knuckles. They were ground / pick up in Germany in 1946... Don't know if they are Allied or Axis.
little beat up, but they have character!
Nice knucks, good size and still can get the work done..
I received this piece in a trade..
Not sure of time period. It is only the right one. I've heard that sometimes only one was issued. This could be calfs skin or deers. Very soft, smooth, yet strong. Called a 'Sappers' glove. From what I can gather this is pretty old. Maybe WW1, or 20s,,or [?]
anyway, enjoy the photos.
Not sure what is sewn in to the knuckle area,,maybe lead powder, or steel filings.
This is
not the thing you want to get hit in the face with!
Ain't that the truth! I would have guessed it for interrogation but I don't think that after a hit or two with this u can say much or are even conscious! Body shots would also be devestating- just as lethal in certain areas! Where did u find this G?
Byz.,,, A forum member noticed this topic and contacted me to see if I would be interested in the Glove and the Aluminum Knuckles!
A little cash, some trade items and we were both happy..
Hello,
Here's an item I picked up a number of years ago. The girl I got it from said it was her grandfather's who had been a policeman. Don't know anything about it other than that. I would think it's from the 30's or 40's but really have no idea. I also have a nightstick or two somewhere around here. The one item I wish I still had but it's been lost to the ages was a small black hard rubber truncheon which if I remember correctly had NYPD markings on it. I had gotten it from one of my Uncles years ago.
thanks for looking
Duzig(Bill)
Nice piece bill! Is it weighted (leaded/heavy?)
- yeah that's a really nice one! , and in good condition too..
What is the length on it?
Hello Byzanti and Gaspare,
It is weighted. Almost feels like the lower part of it is spring and the top is weighted. I paid five dollars for it a number of years ago. Yes it looks like it was never used. It is about 8 1/2 inches long. Am I correct in thinking that it might be from the 30's or 40's? Thanks again for your comments and info.
Bill
Gaspare knows more than me about these, we're just both avid "tools" enthusiasts- but being unused is totally possible, and the leather is in great condition for the age- sure 30s or 40s imo is definitely possible, they just stopped making and using them later, but later isn't unheard of.... that being said I've seen near mint pieces from the 20s that look almost like this, heck we were looking at a spiked prison baton from the 19th century U.K. Last week with engraving and everything, it was in great shape so I think that this could have easily stood up to some years these were built for endurance and strength they aren't going to fall to pieces just like that but then let's see what G says but I like it bill
Nice piece man
you know its weird,,,on ebay you can't sell knuckles,,,but' you can sell these!..
Bill,,that was a great price even back then.. You can pull up 'Vintage leather Blackjack' on eBay and you'd be surprised what these things can go for sometimes..
The style of these really haven't changed,,you'll see adverts! But,there is another completely different pattern. The flat version,,or 'Sap'..
Bill heres an old advert that shows some the same as yours. No date here but IF I remember right its from the 30s at least,,probably teens..
Here;s an old ad showing the flat and round together..
the flats are shown at the beginning of the topic too but figured I'd throw another on up..
I've seen some police uniforms that had a thin, narrow pocket made in to their pants either at the side of leg just right above the knee or one higher up by waist..
I spoke to a Policeman at the MAX . He said he was on a Texas police force and he was
issued a flat one in the 60s! He said he loved it and it had hit many a elbow, shoulder, and head with his! It was a nice long, slim, flat one. I bought the story and the jack!
I was just checking.. Looking at the ad I posted last page one of the rubber jacks have imprinted on it 'Metropolitan Police'!
I checked and the adverts are from the late 1800s!
So really if the blackjacks we own have been kept in good condition we really don't know what year they were made/from! Their styling really hasn't changed in over 100 years!
[cool knucks,,on my most wanted list!]
Quite possibly the coolest set of knuckles I've ever seen- that's straight happy jack Mulraney gangs of New York right there dead to the year. Bet u those were issued the summer after the draft riots, and because of them!
Hello
Byzanti, thanks for your info. The girl I got if from was around my age so I figured her grandfather would have been around the same age and era as mine so the 30's or 40's does make sense. That spiked prison baton sounds interesting, and deadly. Any pictures of that piece? Gaspare, thanks for those pictures and info. Mine does indeed look like the one's you show. Guess I did pretty good paying 5.00 bucks for it maybe 20 years ago or so. With the way laws are today a policeman would be in deep trouble if he used one of these on a suspect I bet eh.
Very interesting items you guys have, I think I'm gonna start keeping my eyes out for more items like these. Thanks again for all your help and knowledge. It is appreciated!
Bill
I'll try to find those pix bill- and yes I do agree these are not standard issue today! The 19th century policing and fire fighting man that was rough work low pay (those things haven't really changed that much!) police and fire had to fight just to make it- not just the criminal element but other police depts and fire squads! NY had horrible overlap and mismanagement really just a mess of inefficient and ineffective systems by the mid 19th century- NY city cops fought the NY metro and borough police in all out brawls sometimes!! Fire squads were more like gangs in a lot of ways! generally speaking the police were used to just control the poor and working classes of the city- the idea of justice for the common man wasn't thru the police but maybe thru a gang or of course the mafia! Police work was for the tough guys who could handle the low pay etc- often newer immigrants that were kept out of other professions and opportunities! Andy militarynut also knows a lot abt ny policing too he identified an early leather police pistol belt slide that held maybe 20 bullets I think by just the contractors name! I think it was rosenblum but I forgot!
Byzanti,
Would love to see those pics & thanks again for that information. I have seen a couple of documentaries on the history channel about that era and as you say, the NY police were fighting other police etc. If my memory serves me correct I thought I heard on one of these shows that out of the gangs came the fire departments more or less. Interesting period in history for sure. Lots of interesting history in New York.
thanks again
Bill
was by my 'safe house'.. Had this case a long time and have had a bunch of different things in it...
I know your all expecting a Tommygun,,,but they are a little scarce here in NY!! These,,guess they have some uses
Cool
While researching fighting rings, I stumbled across the "Apache" street gangs of Paris. During the Belle Époque (later 19th century) they used many "tools of the trade" (as pictured below) when ambushing their prey, the wealthy Parisians of the period.... a well to do man or woman would be well advised to carry a sword cane, a long/sharp hatpin, or perhaps a small and concealable pistol to defend themselves should they find one of these fellows in a back alley off of the boulevard... pronounced "Ah- PASH", these "Apaches" were so named after the antagonists of a James Fennimore Cooper novel of the period... they had impressive sets of combination gun/knives, brass knuckles, and of course some knuckledusters, which I will post in the ring forum. Here is a period poster advising the well to do of the gang members favorite tools of the trade (btw- if any one can find me this poster of the period... I will buy it!!) courtesy of englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com, its entitled "How they Kill You" ...
Also for a bit of an eye opener- google "danse Apache" and see what comes up- this was a popular tandem dance inspired by the "Apache" of the Parisian back alleys...
Mike,,,that IS one cool poster.. I'd love one too,,bet they are super hard to find and expensive!
just saw a pretty cool old advert for a TOTT:
New definition of multi tool right there
Someone buggered up a valuable knife if that grip is real.
they look to new to be authentic....
Anyone reading,,, I'm looking for these type for my collection.. Anyone with that would want to move them send me a email...,G.
and of course would love to have
these,,,and, the NYC type shown previously...
about 18 years ago ahh maybe like 17 it was y2k time.yahoo had a old school forum called the "brass knuckles collector club or forum" yahoo shut down the bulletin board type forums.far as i know. i stopped getting email updates but not sure when at.least 10 years ago for sure i bet even longer. some guys on that forum would cast runs of them and sell them. when i collected WWI stuff i scored a set of cast iron knucks on a buy along with some civil war encampment items from a family or rather the kid who was cashing out. knucks seem to sell fast.
Bret Van Sant
hope this works im bad at resizing
sorry for the sucky pic the skylight really makes it extra bright. those are the cast iron knucks
great shot! Those were cast from a old pair. They came out nice..
They reproduce the real old/espensive ones.. A collector told me that the originals fit the hand good,,and the copies and copies of copies usually are small and forget them fitting even a med large size hand..
Now something like these would be cool too!
Gaspare,
Cool until you hit some dude and the pistol part went off by itself.
Nice switchblades
6 inch blade thats not for shaving
Zoot suits were made for pocketing things like this
Might call it an assassins knife
But it is known as a filero
Its a shank thats intended as an easy conceal
But 12 inch blade very very sharp
A close contact quick strike under the solar plexus or rib cage pierces the heart
Instant death
Very traditional blade with bone or longhorn grip plates
Stylistically engraved with in this case a saying in Spanish
Soy chiquito pero cabron
Means Im small but Im a MFer or the like
A hole etc
Lovely engraving of a grape vine around the words too
Mike,,,,that will do some damage for sure.. I'd say taking that out would make someone pay up right quick!!
Steven C. Wow!! yeah that top one is more like a short sword! I see a switch blade occasionally but they are Asian junk.
U.S. and Italian mades are usually pretty good quality.. That stag handle looks really nice!
Thanks for showing........
nice old knuckes back there!!
Jim,,WOW,,,going to have to check one of those out!!
Just a FYI
I actually had two of the Polish at one time but gave one to a friend. These are knives that you have to train with just to open them without either cutting yourself or having the knife jump out of your hand.
Hope you get straightened out soon Steve..
Jim, can they go 'off' in your pocket??
No, the spring is too strong for that. At least I never had that problem and I carried it for about 5 years in one pocket or another. It is long. To open it you have to hold it very firmly along the length and when you hit the button it wants to jump out of your hand. Therefore the nickname "sticker" as it was prone to jump out of your hand and stick someone. It would also pinch your hand if you held it wrong. But after a few tries it was quite simple and effective.
Nice stuff posted guys
Being able to post looks hit and miss sometimes. Well see how it goes
-
some mean looking Knucks shown here,,,,,Ouch!
Oh yeah,, Jim W.,,,on the US Scorpion,,, How was the lock [or was there] once it was open?
If you look at the last photo, in the bottom right hand of both knives you see a little nob sticking out. When the knife is open, It is locked in place by that long piece the nob is attached to and to release the blade you pull up the nob. this is one of the tightest and efficient switch blades I have seen.
Jim,, I clearly see on your knife,,,and the spelling .. Yet when I do any search anywhere,,they spell it with 2 Fs!!! I put in the spelling on your knife and the model [ Scorpion ] and I get nothing..
Maybe its a knife of bygone years.. A collectors item.. Made no more, and those that have them are very lucky indeed to have them.!
I bought this in Warsaw at the open market sometime around 1996. So the item had been in Poland for some time. After all, no one brings in an item like this to Poland to sell for minimal amounts at the open market. I always assumed it was from around WWII. However, with the spelling of Rufin Jonson instead of Ruffin Johnson, I am wondering if this is some type of Russian production using a fake maker. Still, it is the only one I have ever seen.
Cool advert.. Can't get it any bigger/clearer.. Like that fist piece at top!
,, My old case got lost in the packing about a year or 2 ago.. just found it a few days ago unpacking! Everything the same , fine.. in the front covered box there is a nice throwing star,, a old straight razor etc.
Wow, was just checking.... These type pieces are going for a all time high.. Like antique brass knuckles , also have been at their highest ever prices..
You know the prices are up when something simple like this is bringing in close to $100.!
I would bet some of these men based on the nature of their tattoos were members of the French military?s penal battalions, called bat d?af.
from a 1935 catalog: [sorry poor images]
Considering the maker I thought the switchblade was expensive,,,but then I saw , its for a dozen!!
the .25 is nice, small, perfect for behind the ear shots.... The tiny 'jeweled' .22 piece even comes with pearl grips if wanted,for the price of a couple drinks back then!
my current riker, have a few more pieces in different displays:
Always looking for similar pieces,will buy or trade for nazi items:
last year at the MAX I saw something I should have gotten!. . This year the good Lord willing it will be there again and I'll get it.. For now I won't say what it was but the show is getting closer by the week!
- * guys you have any similar items, whether Police or not please post them here! Thanks............
There's always some strange stuff at the big shows